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Old 13-05-2021, 19:29   #46
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Re: A Sailor's Carbon Offset

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The credits/offsets are modern forms of indulgences.
That’s the point. Who decides what is and is not an “indulgence”?
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Old 13-05-2021, 19:30   #47
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Re: A Sailor's Carbon Offset

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The credits/offsets are modern forms of indulgences.
Yeah, good comparison. Although to be fair, indulgences bought your friends or family out of years in purgatory. The impact is not exactly measurable or tangible, although it certainly had a tangible and measurable benefit for the Church who sold them . And I don't think there was a market where indulgences were bought and sold.

The theory behind cap & trade is that by creating shares (carbon credits) of the available pollution rights, and allowing these rights to be traded thereby setting a market value on pollution, companies would be incentivized to lower their emissions. As I say, I'm not a fan of this approach, but it is a market approach to the problem. It appeals to those who think markets can solve all problems (which I don't).
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Old 13-05-2021, 19:30   #48
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Re: A Sailor's Carbon Offset

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
The credits/offsets are modern forms of indulgences.
Surely you're not finally admitting that climatastrophy is a religion, not science
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Old 13-05-2021, 19:32   #49
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Re: A Sailor's Carbon Offset

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That’s the point. Who decides what is and is not an “indulgence”?

The "Church of Climatastrophy"
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Old 13-05-2021, 19:50   #50
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Re: A Sailor's Carbon Offset

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The "Church of Climatastrophy"
Hey stu how's things in the PNG?
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Old 13-05-2021, 23:45   #51
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Re: A Sailor's Carbon Offset

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The credits/offsets are modern forms of indulgences.
In all the probably thousands of posts related to AGM/CC I have read in the forum over the years this is the most succinctly apt.
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Old 14-05-2021, 00:19   #52
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Re: A Sailor's Carbon Offset

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Pelagic: You knew you were poking a stick into a hornet's nest with this post, didn't you?
To be honest, I never knew much about Carbon Offsets, or how biased their calculations were until learning here....so I regret the Title.

Should have been a shoutout to ;
"A simple sailors footprint".

Outside the cities and large towns, I live in a 3rd world country.

My girlfriend's family
Grow/catch their own food
Cook on coconut charcoal
No electricity 50% of the time
Family of 9 live in a 6m x 18m cement house by a river.

By comparison the 2 of us live on a steel 4m x 20m boat
Solar provides domestic energy
Wind supplies transport energy
Fresh markets supply our food at about $120 per week
Over the years I have weaned off of import indulgences and the only thing I do not compromised on is new and spare equipment for boat.

So while a great deal more money and energy was spent building my lifestyle, the footprint is similar except that we have more room for 2 rather than 9
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Old 14-05-2021, 00:32   #53
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Re: A Sailor's Carbon Offset

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I would like to see carbon credits or some other reward for NOT developing property. I am sitting on 168 acres of forest keeping it from being clear cut as my neighbors was. I pay annual taxes because the trees are viewed as a financial asset rather than as a ecological asset. Hell, I would he thrilled if they just waived the damn taxes.
You might be interested in this article: https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3406494
“Nature-based ways to cool the planet” ~ by Cécile A. J. Girardin et al
https://www.nature.com/articles/d415...ntent=deeplink

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Old 14-05-2021, 03:44   #54
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Re: A Sailor's Carbon Offset

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Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
I would like to see carbon credits or some other reward for NOT developing property. I am sitting on 168 acres of forest keeping it from being clear cut as my neighbors was. I pay annual taxes because the trees are viewed as a financial asset rather than as a ecological asset. Hell, I would he thrilled if they just waived the damn taxes.
Hpeer, many (most?) countries have payment for environmental services (PES) or environmental compensation schemes. I would be surprised if the US didn't have something similar. For example, if a company wants to build a factory and they have to clear some land to do so, they often have to compensate the cleared land elsewhere, either by purchasing or "leasing" the land for conservation. We also preserve a few thousand acres of virgin Atlantic forest in Brazil and the options for getting paid to do so are many.

Here are a few links that explain how it works:

https://www.iied.org/markets-payment...ental-services

https://www.thegef.org/sites/default...PES_2010_1.pdf
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Old 14-05-2021, 04:26   #55
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Re: A Sailor's Carbon Offset

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Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
To be honest, I never knew much about Carbon Offsets, or how biased their calculations were until learning here....so I regret the Title.
As I say, I'm not a fan of this approach to dealing with our CO2 production, but the critics here aren't criticizing based on this approach. They are criticizing based on ANY approach to CO2 mitigation. So you'd be getting the same response from the vocal few here no matter how you introduced the subject.

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Outside the cities and large towns, I live in a 3rd world country.
Succinctly put. If we all lived at this level of resource consumption, most of the planet's environmental problems would disappear, or certainly be greatly reduced. Living on a smallish sailboat lends itself to this kind of lower-impact lifestyle.

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So while a great deal more money and energy was spent building my lifestyle, the footprint is similar except that we have more room for 2 rather than 9
Yes indeed, the input costs of this lifestyle are still not trivial or insignificant. But taken over a lifetime, your contribution to global environmental problems pales in comparison to what is added by those who live high off the ecological hog.

There is no zero-impact life anywhere. A cruising lifestyle is not the lowest impact, but it can be far less than the typical cost of those living in rich developed countries. So in that way, it should be recognized, and deserves some praise -- despite the Bezos of the the sailing world.
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Old 14-05-2021, 05:41   #56
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Re: A Sailor's Carbon Offset

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Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
You might be interested in this article: https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3406494
“Nature-based ways to cool the planet” ~ by Cécile A. J. Girardin et al
https://www.nature.com/articles/d415...ntent=deeplink

Gord,

Not arguing, adding to your point.

We are covid refugees in Eastern, NC. What has stuck me is how hard the land is used. There are 4 basic types of land use:
Unmanaged forest, what very little is left
Managed forest, tree farms
Open farm land, sometimes the color of sun bleached bones
Solar farms

There is a progression.
Sam is a young farmer who cuts unmanaged forest to increase farmland and profits
George is an older and tired and leases the farm for solar as passive income.

The net effect is they are cutting unmanaged forest for solar farms.

I am all for solar power and I think we should cover every acre of open parking lots in it.

But cutting trees to plant solar is effing DUMB.
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Old 14-05-2021, 06:05   #57
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Re: A Sailor's Carbon Offset

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...But cutting trees to plant solar is effing DUMB.
I think Joni Mitchell has something to say about this :

https://youtu.be/g3g9_dnjaFY
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Old 14-05-2021, 06:19   #58
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pirate Re: A Sailor's Carbon Offset

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The net effect is they are cutting unmanaged forest for solar farms.

I am all for solar power and I think we should cover every acre of open parking lots in it.

But cutting trees to plant solar is effing DUMB.

Now that would be a great idea.. cars would be protected in shade and concrete would not be absorbing/radiating the heat that leads to cities being up to 3C warmer than the surrounding countryside... I mean, how much electricity could be generated by covering just these two supermarket car parks with 'Solar' sun shades.
Dare I say if each city did this to all their 'open carparks' the energy could probably power maybe half the city.
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Old 14-05-2021, 10:08   #59
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Re: A Sailor's Carbon Offset

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Surely you're not finally admitting that climatastrophy is a religion, not science
The religion is still the Cult of Ra, chanting "It is the sun."
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Old 14-05-2021, 10:14   #60
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Re: A Sailor's Carbon Offset

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Yeah, good comparison. Although to be fair, indulgences bought your friends or family out of years in purgatory. The impact is not exactly measurable or tangible, although it certainly had a tangible and measurable benefit for the Church who sold them . And I don't think there was a market where indulgences were bought and sold.

The theory behind cap & trade is that by creating shares (carbon credits) of the available pollution rights, and allowing these rights to be traded thereby setting a market value on pollution, companies would be incentivized to lower their emissions. As I say, I'm not a fan of this approach, but it is a market approach to the problem. It appeals to those who think markets can solve all problems (which I don't).

I support a carbon tax, such this one. It also uses market forces by putting a price on a negative externality, which free enterprise is not capable of doing.

https://clcouncil.org/economists-statement/
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