A Sailor's Carbon Offset

[sailorboy1]

And what answer it that as to me and my sailboat? Isn't that what the thread is about?

[boatman61]

Well I remember some members here urging me to get into Bitcoin mining several years ago..
Now there's some sailors with a massive carbon footprint if they followed through with their ideas.. especially when one considers the carbon footprint from Bitcoin mining today equals the annual energy consumption of Argentina..
But then again.. I'd be able to afford a better boat.. Dang.!!!!

[Rubicon King]

Hoping this isn't 34.. BUT.. No, there shouldn't be offsets, boat manufacturing and equipment installations do nothing but add carbon to the environment... this carbon thing is a sham driven by political idiots looking for power and control

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Thirty-three posts have been deleted for being off topic and devolving into complaining about taxation in general.

Please help keep the thread focused on the issue at hand: "Should liveaboard, off-grid sailors be given carbon credits for their efforts to use clean energy for domestic and transport purposes?"

If cooperation doesn't happen here, there will be consequences. No more Miss Nice Guy.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Rubicon King

Hoping this isn't 34.. BUT.. No, there shouldn't be offsets, boat manufacturing and equipment installations do nothing but add carbon to the environment... this carbon thing is a sham driven by political idiots looking for power and control

Naah.. its just a way of kicking the ball into the long grass while boosting the stocks and profits.
The whiff of money is stronger than Heroin for 99.9% of people.

[SailOar]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

And what answer it that as to me and my sailboat? Isn't that what the thread is about?

The answer is that, as they are currently used, carbon credits are only available to large producers of CO2 like power companies, etc.

[Mike OReilly]

Cap and trade is an attempt to bring a market solution to the problem of pollution; specifically CO2 emissions. It is an alternative to straight regulation or taxation.

I'm not a big fan. I'd rather just set hard legal limits, and then jail the CEO and board of directors if the company exceeds them. But those enamoured with market solutions argue this is a preferable approach.

The real point, for me, is that living on a smallish sailboat means I contribute far less to the overall problem. If more people in the rich developed world lived at the typical cruisers emissions level, we'd all be better off.

[Pelagic]

"The real point, for me, is that living on a smallish sailboat means I contribute far less to the overall problem. If more people in the rich developed world lived at the typical cruisers emissions level, we'd all be better off."

Mike, that is the message we need to tell the world about living simple on a boat.

Yes the building of a modern boat and its components takes poluting energy , but once built and equipped with solar and sails, it can be sustainable for a lifetime .

If you prefer remote locations where you can forage for your own healthy food, bulk store in reusable containers , Cook.on Solar powered inducton and just have a small gen and engine for backup..... your footprint is pretty small in the sand....
..and it washes away at high tide[emoji5]

[seandepagnier]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

.... should liveaboard, off-grid sailors be given carbon tax credits, for their efforts to use clean energy for domestic and transport purposes ?

I am 100% sure the average cruiser exceeds 16 tons of per year emissions average in usa making them less deserving of tax credits than almost any group.


I've seen thousands of cruisers, it is very common someone flies on a plane somewhere to meet a boat at which point the carbon "budget" is completely blown, by the flight back from other side of world, the debt is now double. Many of the boats themselves often burn a lot of fuel, and the people on board often eat expensive food/wine as well and have little concern for the energy to produce this either.

This article puts into economic perspective, how much pollution goes into the creation of energy and how badly China is behaving.

You mean america is behaving badly? China has most wind power, has made solar possible worldwide, it produces for the world, and the emissions still less than half of usa per capita! Now, china will be dominant economic force into the future, there is no stopping this, because usa was run very poorly for many a year and inflation is now finally happening. So who is behaving badly??

It would be nice if sailors are recognized for their green lifestyle .

except the fact that the vast majority are less "green" than even average americans which is pathetic.


Why not just a simple tax of $10 per gallon of fuel such as gasoline/kerosene etc, and the amount taxed at the end of the year or twice a year is divided up and distributed the same as stimulus payment? This would be a fair way, since people with average consumption would just get their money back and it would not cost them any different than now.

[hpeer]

Sean;

No doubt there are extravagant cruising life styles. But Pelagic made it clear he wanted to “low impact” cruisers from the “mega yachtie” life style.

I suspect it is a very low portion of cruisers who fit the “low impact” model and your observation has much merit. Yet there are others, including yourself, who lead less wasteful life styles. pelagic was asking for a “shout out” to them, and to you, for the effort.

The way a “carbon footprint” is calculated is pretty interesting. I strongly suspect that more than your personal usage goes into the calculation. A very low usage friend did his foot print and was shocked by the amount attributed to him. My only guess is that there are a lot of carbon sources within a country that are not directly attributable to any one individual. Hospitals, airports, schools, office buildings, military, post office, government facilities, etc. To account for this “community load” they distribute it across the population. It n short just being an American citizen you have a huge carbon footprint ascribed to you no matter your life style.

And not everything is as it seems. Take flying for example. A fully loaded passenger jet moves people at about 90mpg. So that 4,500 mile round trip is about 50 gallons of usage. Thats about equivalent to 1,000 miles driven.

An average 2,000 sq foot home on Long Island uses about 800 gallons per year.

So if you live aboard in a warm climate, requiring no hear, but visit your family, once a hear then you are pretty far ahead.

It is true that we all contribute to the problem, and more than others. It is a good idea to encourage folks to live more simply.

I don’t know what to do about those that fail to see the problem, the lack or foresight baffles me. But it is a common human problem, not easily solved. Will likely bite us in the posterior sooner rather than later.

[hpeer]

I would like to see carbon credits or some other reward for NOT developing property. I am sitting on 168 acres of forest keeping it from being clear cut as my neighbors was. I pay annual taxes because the trees are viewed as a financial asset rather than as a ecological asset. Hell, I would he thrilled if they just waived the damn taxes.

[Mirage35]

Pelagic: You knew you were poking a stick into a hornet's nest with this post, didn't you?

[Nauticus]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

If the credits are paid in beer, I'm in .

[emoji482]

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by hpeer

The way a “carbon footprint” is calculated is pretty interesting. I strongly suspect that more than your personal usage goes into the calculation. A very low usage friend did his foot print and was shocked by the amount attributed to him. My only guess is that there are a lot of carbon sources within a country that are not directly attributable to any one individual. Hospitals, airports, schools, office buildings, military, post office, government facilities, etc. To account for this “community load” they distribute it across the population. It n short just being an American citizen you have a huge carbon footprint ascribed to you no matter your life style.

That's exactly right H. The collective load is distributed per-capita. I think most of the load is actually due to commercial and industrial activities, which often take massive amounts of input resources. But adding in infrastructure and community services like water, sewer, roads, airports, police, etc... and it all accounts for the majority of our personal footprints. All of this contributes to the typical lifestyle of those in the rich developed nations.

This is why it is virtually impossible for someone in our countries to live small. Even the most austere personal efforts can only make a modest dent in our individual total impact.

But living on a boat, or your own piece of land, where you can be at least partially directly accountable for the resources you use, allows people to step away and cease contributing to the collective load.

I'm not talking 100% (although that is possible). But if we all stopped using the collective resources then they would stop being produced at the levels they are. One person makes no measurable difference, but if everyone does it -- if everyone lived with the resource demands of small cruising vessels -- then the totality of need and demand would decrease.

Originally Posted by hpeer

I don’t know what to do about those that fail to see the problem, the lack or foresight baffles me. But it is a common human problem, not easily solved. Will likely bite us in the posterior sooner rather than later.

Exactly .

[nolakennedys]

That’s all Bullsh!t anyway. Carbon credits? Really? WTFO. Sorry ain’t buying into that bs.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by SailOar

What Is a Carbon Credit?

A carbon credit is a permit that allows the company that holds it to emit a certain amount of carbon dioxide or other greenhouse gases. One credit permits the emission of a mass equal to one ton of carbon dioxide.

The credits/offsets are modern forms of indulgences.