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Old 12-05-2021, 16:02   #16
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Re: A Sailor's Carbon Offset

I see a bunch of my posts have been deleted.

No sense posting if it's just going to get deleted.

Was it the government aspect? Might as well delete the entire thread, because you can't really discuss taxes without mentioning the gov't.
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Old 12-05-2021, 18:05   #17
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Re: A Sailor's Carbon Offset

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Thirty-three posts have been deleted for being off topic and devolving into complaining about taxation in general.

Please help keep the thread focused on the issue at hand: "Should liveaboard, off-grid sailors be given carbon credits for their efforts to use clean energy for domestic and transport purposes?"

If cooperation doesn't happen here, there will be consequences. No more Miss Nice Guy.
Sorry Ann, I missed all those troublesome posts.

To steer this thread in the direction i had hoped ....., it was more about ways to improve Public Relations about offgrid liveaboard sailors.
Carbon tax was just an example!

Over the years, cruisers went from being admired as adventurers, to being singled out by the growing Woke movent as rich selfish "yachtsmen" .

I think it will get worse and more punitive unless we separate Solar Sailors from the 100m power Superyachts .

It is no accident that Jeff Bezos' rumored new 417ft yacht will be sail.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/billspr...ng-superyacht/
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Old 12-05-2021, 19:49   #18
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Re: A Sailor's Carbon Offset

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Sorry Ann, I missed all those troublesome posts.

To steer this thread in the direction i had hoped ....., it was more about ways to improve Public Relations about offgrid liveaboard sailors.
Carbon tax was just an example!

Over the years, cruisers went from being admired as adventurers, to being singled out by the growing Woke movent as rich selfish "yachtsmen" .

I think it will get worse and more punitive unless we separate Solar Sailors from the 100m power Superyachts .

It is no accident that Jeff Bezos' rumored new 417ft yacht will be sail.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/billspr...ng-superyacht/
More on oceanco's newest yacht contract . Customer is Jeff Bezos

https://www.superyachtfan.com/yacht-...sailing-yacht/
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Old 12-05-2021, 19:59   #19
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Re: A Sailor's Carbon Offset

Sorry for adding to the drift. I'll try and be better .

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To steer this thread in the direction i had hoped ....., it was more about ways to improve Public Relations about offgrid liveaboard sailors.
Carbon tax was just an example!
As I've mentioned in the past, one of my main reasons for choosing a cruising lifestyle is to limit my impact on this planet. A cruising lifestyle lends itself to living smaller and taking less from our global ecosystem.

Of course, it's certainly possible to cruise at a more extravagant level; to take more from the planet. But most cruising boats are smaller than most land dwellings. This alone pushes cruisers to take less from our planet.

Add in the tendency for greater efficiency and self-sufficiency (solar, wind, more efficient use of water, fuel, etc.) and it is, as I say, a lifestyle that lends itself to being a lower impact. And all of this is before we even factor in the use of wind over dino-power.

So yeah... cruising do deserve better PR when it comes to all these issues. If everyone lived as most (many?) of us do, the world would be a better place -- environmentally speaking anyway.
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Old 12-05-2021, 20:06   #20
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Re: A Sailor's Carbon Offset

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If everyone lived as most (many?) of us do, the world would be a better place -- environmentally speaking anyway.
Not sure about that. 7 billion people living in boats.... the good anchorages sure would be crowded
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Old 12-05-2021, 20:10   #21
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Re: A Sailor's Carbon Offset

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Please take a look at how much trash it takes to build a fiberglass boat. Literally thousands of pounds of materials that will never be recycled. Next look at all the volatile organics and the list of chemicals used to make the materials used in boatbuilding. A fiberglass boat filled with lead and coated with copper will end up where? No one has a good solution.
At least a steel hull can rust to death and my aluminum boat can be turned into beer cans. Actually my manatee crew is hard at work drinking beer as fast as possible then beating the cans flat for a new dinghy.
Happy trails to you
Mark and his perpetually thirsty manatee crew.
Sorry, aloominum aint green either. Bauxite doesn't grow on trees, and doesn't refine itself voluntarily.

Some people in the industry call it "congealed electricity", the manufacturing process is so energy intensive.
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Old 12-05-2021, 20:25   #22
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Re: A Sailor's Carbon Offset

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Not sure about that. 7 billion people living in boats.... the good anchorages sure would be crowded
True... Not everyone can live on a boat. But the same goes for any particular lifestyle; not everyone can do the exact same thing. The point is, a cruising lifestyle lends itself to a smaller lifestyle (environmentally speaking).

There are lots of ways to achieve the same outcome, but on land, and especially living in our rich developed nations, it is much harder to live smaller. All the forces drive people in the opposite direction.

On a boat, you can be more of an island -- a more modest island.
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Old 12-05-2021, 20:31   #23
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Re: A Sailor's Carbon Offset

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True... Not everyone can live on a boat. But the same goes for any particular lifestyle; not everyone can do the exact same thing. The point is, a cruising lifestyle lends itself to a smaller lifestyle (environmentally speaking).

There are lots of ways to achieve the same outcome, but on land, and especially living in our rich developed nations, it is much harder to live smaller. All the forces drive people in the opposite direction.

On a boat, you can be more of an island -- a more modest island.
Definitely agree. I read somewhere that the average carbon footprint in developed nations was over 10 tonnes per year per capita!

Obviously that includes heavy industries (such as aluminium mining and refining) but running cars, houses etc must make up a good portion of that.

With us, living off grid and water mains, using less than 500 litres of fuel per year, (between two of us) you'd think we'd have to be way less than that.
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Old 13-05-2021, 01:55   #24
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Re: A Sailor's Carbon Offset

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They'll give you immunity when burning masses of plastic on beaches..
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Old 13-05-2021, 08:29   #25
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Re: A Sailor's Carbon Offset

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Sorry for adding to the drift. I'll try and be better .



As I've mentioned in the past, one of my main reasons for choosing a cruising lifestyle is to limit my impact on this planet. A cruising lifestyle lends itself to living smaller and taking less from our global ecosystem.

Of course, it's certainly possible to cruise at a more extravagant level; to take more from the planet. But most cruising boats are smaller than most land dwellings. This alone pushes cruisers to take less from our planet.

Add in the tendency for greater efficiency and self-sufficiency (solar, wind, more efficient use of water, fuel, etc.) and it is, as I say, a lifestyle that lends itself to being a lower impact. And all of this is before we even factor in the use of wind over dino-power.

So yeah... cruising do deserve better PR when it comes to all these issues. If everyone lived as most (many?) of us do, the world would be a better place -- environmentally speaking anyway.
I certainly think living small is one of the better thing we can do for good old mother earth. And cruising fits the bill. One of the issues however is that in order to attain the lifestyle there needs to be a lot carbon-producing support. It's kind of like all the vegans in Canada who think they are saving the planet. Its just not a sustainable lifestyle in a climate where winter is 6-7 months long—not without a whole lot of carbon producing shipping.

In order to be a "comfortable" full time live aboard you have to factor in all that initial carbon footprint and then the ongoing consumption of shipping parts, adding electronics and dealing with constant breakdowns etc. It is a slippery slope and we don't have to go as far as Bezos in order to go "too far."

We are trying to live smaller these days. Eat less meat, buy fewer strawberries in January, recycle and compost as much as we can. If we ever to make it aboard full-time I look forward to reducing that footprint even more.

P.S. Sorry about the drift. You can always tell when i don't have enough work to do.
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Old 13-05-2021, 08:43   #26
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Re: A Sailor's Carbon Offset

Where do I go to sell my carbon credits ? That is the only question I have .
I don't produce much non natural co2 or methane . And yes I produce a lot of methane I produce about 500 pounds of co2 from burning fuels produced from rotten ancient plant life
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Old 13-05-2021, 09:02   #27
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Re: A Sailor's Carbon Offset

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Originally Posted by Macblaze View Post
I certainly think living small is one of the better thing we can do for good old mother earth. And cruising fits the bill. One of the issues however is that in order to attain the lifestyle there needs to be a lot carbon-producing support. It's kind of like all the vegans in Canada who think they are saving the planet. Its just not a sustainable lifestyle in a climate where winter is 6-7 months long—not without a whole lot of carbon producing shipping.

In order to be a "comfortable" full time live aboard you have to factor in all that initial carbon footprint and then the ongoing consumption of shipping parts, adding electronics and dealing with constant breakdowns etc. It is a slippery slope and we don't have to go as far as Bezos in order to go "too far."

We are trying to live smaller these days. Eat less meat, buy fewer strawberries in January, recycle and compost as much as we can. If we ever to make it aboard full-time I look forward to reducing that footprint even more.

P.S. Sorry about the drift. You can always tell when i don't have enough work to do.
'tis all true ... There's no such thing as zero impact. All living critters have some environmental footprint. And a full life-cycle analysis is the right way to consider these factors.

Cruising is definitely not the only way to live with the smallest footprint. I bet there are many other better ways to do it on land. And of course the level of luxury one lives at also drives the size of your footprint.

One can live small -- or large -- on land or at sea. To me though, the benefit of living on a modest boat is that it is a small space. This drives, or limits, the amount of consumption one can undertake. And given the self-sufficient nature of cruising (when we're away from the dock), it also encourages conservation and living within nature's limits.

BTW, I hope this isn't considered a thread drift Pelagic. I thought this was the direction you were aiming with your opening comments. The whole taxes thing was off the rails.
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Old 13-05-2021, 09:19   #28
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I see a bunch of my posts have been deleted.

No sense posting if it's just going to get deleted.

Was it the government aspect? Might as well delete the entire thread, because you can't really discuss taxes without mentioning the gov't.
Not enough Carbon Credits..
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Old 13-05-2021, 10:01   #29
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Re: A Sailor's Carbon Offset

Well, i don’t live on a sailboat to limit my carbon or to live “small” at all. Yet Iam sure in the make believe world of getting carbon credits I would earn a lot. So far i haven't really read anything of use to me to be worth any effort to get the credits.

Does anyone here actually get/earn credits and sell/exchange/give them away?
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Old 13-05-2021, 10:41   #30
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Re: A Sailor's Carbon Offset

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Well, i don’t live on a sailboat to limit my carbon or to live “small” at all. Yet Iam sure in the make believe world of getting carbon credits I would earn a lot. So far i haven't really read anything of use to me to be worth any effort to get the credits.

Does anyone here actually get/earn credits and sell/exchange/give them away?
What Is a Carbon Credit?

A carbon credit is a permit that allows the company that holds it to emit a certain amount of carbon dioxide or other greenhouse gases. One credit permits the emission of a mass equal to one ton of carbon dioxide.

The carbon credit is one half of a so-called "cap-and-trade" program. Companies that pollute are awarded credits that allow them to continue to pollute up to a certain limit. That limit is reduced periodically. Meanwhile, the company may sell any unneeded credits to another company that needs them.

Private companies are thus doubly incentivized to reduce greenhouse emissions. First, they will be fined if they exceed the cap. Second, they can make money by saving and reselling some of their emissions allowances. [...]

Cap-And-Trade Programs Today

Cap-and-trade programs remain controversial in the U.S. However, 11 states have adopted such market-based approaches to the reduction of greenhouse gases, according to the Center for Climate and Energy Solutions. Of these, 10 are Northeast states that banded together to jointly attack the problem through a program known as the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative (RGGI).3

California's Cap-and-Trade Program

The state of California initiated its own cap-and-trade program in 2013. The rules apply to the state's large electric power plants, industrial plants, and fuel distributors.

The state claims its program is the fourth largest in the world after those of the European Union, South Korea, and the Chinese province of Guangdong. [...]
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