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Old 22-06-2020, 02:33   #901
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

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Originally Posted by jmh2002 View Post
To see more of the runaround some cruisers have had to endure in other parts of the world check out the last 5 episodes of Sailing Into Freedom who have been trying to find a safe haven for over 2 months, while running out of food, water, fuel, gas, electricity, etc.

It's pushed them pretty much to breaking point.

Where are they from? I thought the idea was that you are supposed to return to your country of origin? I believe most countries allow the return of their own citizens.
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Old 22-06-2020, 04:41   #902
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

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NZ is a reasonable country and isn't going to start throwing people out into the ocean (or into cyclone season) like some other small island nations have done in other parts of the world.

Will there be some inconvenience to cruisers? Sure. But that is part of cruising. You lose some of the (supposed) security and stability of living a normal life on land in your home country. That is your choice, and your burden.

But causing further problems by being selfish and making foolish decisions isn't going to help the situation.

I understand their desire to push and get back out there on the water, but honestly in their shoes Iíd pull the plug right now and return to our home country and wait it out. This has confirmed with me that we will keep a residence that we can return to, even if we do rent it out month to month while we are gone. Now the whole world continues to accelerate in cases, and in a few months the real danger of a second wave exists. I can see a case where NZ doesnít let Zatara back in and they have to try and make it to an American territory. Part of it Iím sure is this is an income stream that they worked hard to create that they donít want to see dry up. You can only do so many ďlessons learnedĒ and ďcost of cruisingĒ videos before you run out of content.
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Old 22-06-2020, 06:54   #903
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

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Where are they from? I thought the idea was that you are supposed to return to your country of origin? I believe most countries allow the return of their own citizens.
Australia and Portugal.

However when you live full time on the boat, ie: it's your home, returning to your country of origin brings about other complications too.

- cost
- what to do with the boat
- etc

In their case several islands wouldn't even let them stay, so they couldn't even take the option of hauling out and flying home.

In any case, they stated they couldn't afford that anyway, or the option from another country of being let in, but having to leave the boat in the marina and isolate in a hotel.

It was a bit crazy for countries to act as they did.

In most cases small cruising boats could easily have been accommodated (and isolated) at anchor, with some food, water, and diesel deliveries organised.

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Old 22-06-2020, 07:03   #904
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

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Originally Posted by ol1970 View Post
I understand their desire to push and get back out there on the water, but honestly in their shoes I’d pull the plug right now and return to our home country and wait it out. This has confirmed with me that we will keep a residence that we can return to, even if we do rent it out month to month while we are gone. Now the whole world continues to accelerate in cases, and in a few months the real danger of a second wave exists. I can see a case where NZ doesn’t let Zatara back in and they have to try and make it to an American territory. Part of it I’m sure is this is an income stream that they worked hard to create that they don’t want to see dry up. You can only do so many “lessons learned” and “cost of cruising” videos before you run out of content.
Those are all good points too.

Although to be fair, plenty of people on land with normal jobs have also seen their "income stream that they worked hard to create" dry up, and are now unemployed.

For some people, depending on age and situation, this may well end up being like when other industries were mothballed (eg: coal mining in the UK under Thatcher) - many of those workers won't be able to be retrained, there won't be new jobs for them anyway, and they will be on unemployment benefits until they reach retirement, and then onto a pension of some type.

Sad but true for some.

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Old 22-06-2020, 07:03   #905
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

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Originally Posted by fxykty View Post
NZ did not kick anyone out. They all left of their own volition. Sailing Zatara mentioned several times in recent videos that theyíre sick of NZís cold fall weather and didnít want to spend the winter here.

It will certainly be interesting to hear the results of the voyagers. Havenít seen any news items yet.
Then they are idiots. Leave safe country, in fact one of the safest in the world with one of the highest quality of life and living standards, and try to go to some other countries that explicitly said their boarders are closed. Makes no sense whatsoever.
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Old 22-06-2020, 07:08   #906
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

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Originally Posted by jmh2002 View Post
Australia and Portugal.

However when you live full time on the boat, ie: it's your home, returning to your country of origin brings about other complications too.

- cost
- what to do with the boat
- etc

In their case several islands wouldn't even let them stay, so they couldn't even take the option of hauling out and flying home.

In any case, they stated they couldn't afford that anyway, or the option from another country of being let in, but having to leave the boat in the marina and isolate in a hotel.

It was a bit crazy for countries to act as they did.

In most cases small cruising boats could easily have been accommodated (and isolated) at anchor, with some food, water, and diesel deliveries organised.

1) When he said return home, I believe it was a reference to their "home country". I've not heard of any home countries refusing citizens return (hard to find flights sometimes but if you get to the border, they let you in)
2) It's not the island nations responsibility to accommodate them. They have plenty of problems to deal with already.
3) Cost...if you choose to head out for adventure without enough cash to support it, that's a risk you take. (I also have limited sympathy for those working regular jobs who never planned for an emergency.)

For reference we got caught in Nepal when this all went down. We paid for an evac flight out and then paid to rent an apartment for a month until it got warm enough to switch to the RV.
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Old 22-06-2020, 07:51   #907
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

Yes, I did say that some of their problems were self inflicted.

On the other hand, I also said that several countries actually turned them away, including the country where they were when it all kicked off. They were basically forcibly deported on their boat.

So even if they had the money, those countries didn't even give them the option to haul the boat and fly out.

Also some countries suggested sheltering in place, if you had or could arrange a safe place to shelter.

The cruisers who left NZ were neither forcibly deported nor denied a safe place to shelter. They just didn't want to spend the winter (which although a bit wet, is very mild in the north of the North Island of NZ - around +10degC a lot of the time, so inconvenient but not especially onerous)
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Old 22-06-2020, 08:13   #908
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
1) When he said return home, I believe it was a reference to their "home country". I've not heard of any home countries refusing citizens return (hard to find flights sometimes but if you get to the border, they let you in)
2) It's not the island nations responsibility to accommodate them. They have plenty of problems to deal with already.
3) Cost...if you choose to head out for adventure without enough cash to support it, that's a risk you take. (I also have limited sympathy for those working regular jobs who never planned for an emergency.)

For reference we got caught in Nepal when this all went down. We paid for an evac flight out and then paid to rent an apartment for a month until it got warm enough to switch to the RV.
I think all of these guys will end up being fine, but this does remind me how fitting the Mike Tyson quote is ďEveryone has a plan until they get punched in the mouthĒ. Well Covid19 just punched everyone in the mouth and doesnít give a crap if you donít have a backup plan. Itís because stuff like this can happen that it keeps people tied to the dock, at least they are out there. I do think itís a little crazy to leave NZ and sail towards a country that isnít open and just expect they will let you in. If thatís the case (not sure thatís what they are thinking), then that I can totally understand why countries and locals would have a negative opinion of cruisers. I also have little sympathy for those who are out there and donít have the funds to get home. Itís the same as 70% people here in the USA having less than a $400 emergency fund. But they all have a $1000 cell phone and cable TV and a new leased car. But thatís how the world works I suppose and thatís never going to change.
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Old 22-06-2020, 08:46   #909
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

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I think all of these guys will end up being fine, but this does remind me how fitting the Mike Tyson quote is “Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth”. Well Covid19 just punched everyone in the mouth and doesn’t give a crap if you don’t have a backup plan.
It's a BS quote.

That's why I tacked on the part at the end that we got caught up also. The vast majority of people who were paying attention, "got punched in the mouth" and then used their plan and all worked out fine.

So far all the examples of people having major issues with the Corona shutdowns that I've seen, they had no plan and/or did something dumb.
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Old 22-06-2020, 09:00   #910
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

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On the other hand, I also said that several countries actually turned them away, including the country where they were when it all kicked off. They were basically forcibly deported on their boat.
This wasn't a surprise if you were paying attention. We were aware and considering options back in January.

If they weren't looking at options to secure the boat as this was developing so they could fly out, a lot of that falls on them.

Now if they left for a 6 week crossing late January and had contacted the destination country before departing to confirm they are OK...yeah, it's a rough situation but for the vast majority, that isn't the case.
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Old 22-06-2020, 09:06   #911
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

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It's a BS quote.

That's why I tacked on the part at the end that we got caught up also. The vast majority of people who were paying attention, "got punched in the mouth" and then used their plan and all worked out fine.

So far all the examples of people having major issues with the Corona shutdowns that I've seen, they had no plan and/or did something dumb.
I think we are saying the same thing. Zatara family will be fine because they worked their ass off and saved money for decades and are multimillionaires able to deal with pretty much whatever life throws at them. Other boats owners out there who took the shortcut and didn't create a pile of wealth before they got out there can't really deal with this stuff as easily. Personally if I'm writing a blog/vlog begging for enough money to have a new anchor or replace the broken autopilot, or talking about how they can't believe the audacity of countries not letting me in I'd be embarrassed.
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Old 22-06-2020, 09:42   #912
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

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I also have little sympathy for those who are out there and donít have the funds to get home.
I'm not sure why you'd need to 'get home'.

What special things would be happening in your own home country that aren't in your host country. So long as host country like NZ doesn't kick you out, which they wouldn't. Then just stay in place.
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Old 22-06-2020, 10:48   #913
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

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Yes, I did say that some of their problems were self inflicted.

On the other hand, I also said that several countries actually turned them away, including the country where they were when it all kicked off. They were basically forcibly deported on their boat.

So even if they had the money, those countries didn't even give them the option to haul the boat and fly out.

Also some countries suggested sheltering in place, if you had or could arrange a safe place to shelter.
I feel bad that they were unable to provision, fuel and water before getting the boot from Cuba. It's also unfortunate that they didn't ask for a "stamp" before leaving.

HOWEVER, what I can't excuse is having basically NO money! "We have no money and can't afford a hotel for 2 weeks of quarantine" WHO does that?

Also, they obviously needed to rely on the "charity" of the various authorities to supply them with all their necessities. I can sort of sympathize with that since they didn't have any place to go, HOWEVER, they still had NO money! So how do they buy anything?

Sorry, sounds totally irresponsible to me. I admire their resourcefulness, but that's about it.

Nice couple.....I wish them luck.
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Old 22-06-2020, 10:58   #914
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

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Zatara family will be fine because they worked their ass off and saved money for decades and are multimillionaires able to deal with pretty much whatever life throws at them. .
Zatara obviously has money, but had no idea that they were MULTI-millionaires.

They must be doing VERY well to afford the things they have. He didn't blink at having to pop 10 grand for a windless.

In any case, if they are in fact multi-millionaires, and I'm not saying that they're not as I have no idea. Then it is even more inexcusable that they would depart NZ under the pretense of declaring an emergency. Zatara should be quite financially capable of surviving a few months without their internet income. JMHO
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Old 22-06-2020, 10:59   #915
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

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I can sort of sympathize with that since they didn't have any place to go, HOWEVER, they still had NO money! So how do they buy anything?

You do realize that 40% of Americans were in this boat (no pun intended) with little to no savings, and that was prior to the pandemic. There are a number of reasons for this, both faults to personal choices and societal pressures/lessons taught, and job opportunities. I'd say in another 6 weeks when the "extra" unemployment runs out you'll quickly see that number jump up.



Personally I'd rather be broke on a boat in the water than broke in an apartment in the inner city.
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