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Old 23-05-2020, 16:10   #781
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

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Originally Posted by BlackHeron View Post
5:1 scope is a lunch hook. Absolute minimum in a very protected anchorage in good weather. 10:1 is more like it, if at all possible, or as close as practicable. Be sure to start from the right number for true depth in the scope equation.

Add freeboard, maximum foreseeable burial depth of the anchor, maximum tide, maximum foreseeable wave height, and finally any wind sayche or storm surge expected.

Just using the MLLW number on the chart or the number on the depth sounder when you pull in will almost always be way too low, and scope will be much lower than calculated.

At 10:1 at worst case high-high water you will sleep soundly or feel OK ashore at the pub or grocery store when a freak storm blows up when you are away and your boat has to fend for herself out there.

But if you think 5:1 is Okay, it's your boat.
10:1 - i bet you wear a belt and suspenders. This is for a hurricane, i don't know of anyone who would put out that much scope.
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Old 23-05-2020, 16:13   #782
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackHeron View Post
5:1 scope is a lunch hook. Absolute minimum in a very protected anchorage in good weather. 10:1 is more like it, if at all possible, or as close as practicable. Be sure to start from the right number for true depth in the scope equation.

Add freeboard, maximum foreseeable burial depth of the anchor, maximum tide, maximum foreseeable wave height, and finally any wind sayche or storm surge expected.

Just using the MLLW number on the chart or the number on the depth sounder when you pull in will almost always be way too low, and scope will be much lower than calculated.

At 10:1 at worst case high-high water you will sleep soundly or feel OK ashore at the pub or grocery store when a freak storm blows up when you are away and your boat has to fend for herself out there.

But if you think 5:1 is Okay, it's your boat.


All chain? All nylon rode? 50í of chain then the rest nylon? New generation anchor? CQR?
Danforth? Sand bottom? Scoured bottom? Grass? All this matters.
From what Iíve heard the best ratio for chain/rode is 7:1, and the best ratio for all chain is 5:1. Of course one has to use whatever they are comfortable with.
I was amazed when I dropped our Mantus in a patch of sand and reversed hard on a 2:1 scope. It dug in within a foot of where it hit.
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Old 23-05-2020, 16:14   #783
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackHeron View Post
5:1 scope is a lunch hook. Absolute minimum in a very protected anchorage in good weather. 10:1 is more like it, if at all possible, or as close as practicable. Be sure to start from the right number for true depth in the scope equation.

Add freeboard, maximum foreseeable burial depth of the anchor, maximum tide, maximum foreseeable wave height, and finally any wind sayche or storm surge expected.

Just using the MLLW number on the chart or the number on the depth sounder when you pull in will almost always be way too low, and scope will be much lower than calculated.

At 10:1 at worst case high-high water you will sleep soundly or feel OK ashore at the pub or grocery store when a freak storm blows up when you are away and your boat has to fend for herself out there.

But if you think 5:1 is Okay, it's your boat.
Good advice! Mahalo!

Kimo
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Old 23-05-2020, 16:17   #784
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

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Originally Posted by Kimo_Kai View Post
You absolutely should not trust ANY content whether on youtube, FB, instagram, TV, your neighbor, etc..

Let me share some "Inside Info" that as a marina equipment vendor I see weekly.


Quite a few of the influencer account and comments you see surrounding product, product reviews, etc are fake. 100% fake sock puppets. I know because I get the solicitations from these Sock Puppet Marketing companies weekly. They offer fake posts on twitter, FakeBook, and even complete fake Blog Posts featuring your product.

50% of the Covid19 posts on twitter for example are BOTS...FAKE...they are pushing and agenda. The companies know this, but the flowing in ad revenue makes them not just look the other way, but to actually promote it.

For $1500/mo for example I could have Fake FaceBook accounts post favorable views on the water maker and cruising websites. BUT if I act now, and go for the Gold Package of $2500/mo I get fake blog posts complete with island photos, product photos, and "Testimonials" about my products posted on all the forums and internet cruising sites. NO...I am not making this up or exaggerating. Now I don't play this game (I'm too busy already and don't want this to feel like a "Real Job") but I can spot these Fake Reviews and product placements now easier because the same sock puppet accounts are posting the same "Gee I love my XXX" posts on all the different sailing and cruising sites. Their profiles are filled with stock internet imagery of boats and islands. Heck ONE time a water maker competitor of mine (won't say their name) actually had their sock puppet marketing account use one of MY water maker install photos right off MY website as a "hey look at my new install". It was so hilarious that I didn't even bother sending the company a nastygram email. I see the same sock puppet accounts posting other marine products online and recognize the game.

It's a Crazy world out there folks...fun...but Crazy.
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Old 23-05-2020, 16:18   #785
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackHeron View Post
5:1 scope is a lunch hook. Absolute minimum in a very protected anchorage in good weather. 10:1 is more like it, if at all possible, or as close as practicable. Be sure to start from the right number for true depth in the scope equation.

Add freeboard, maximum foreseeable burial depth of the anchor, maximum tide, maximum foreseeable wave height, and finally any wind sayche or storm surge expected.

Just using the MLLW number on the chart or the number on the depth sounder when you pull in will almost always be way too low, and scope will be much lower than calculated.

At 10:1 at worst case high-high water you will sleep soundly or feel OK ashore at the pub or grocery store when a freak storm blows up when you are away and your boat has to fend for herself out there.

But if you think 5:1 is Okay, it's your boat.
Yup, 10:1 is better if practical, and yes, most people don't account for freeboard, so +1 for that.
I go ashore maybe twice a week, but give more scope if it is blowing hard. Though I generally keep it to 7:1 to prevent horsing - it's gusty here. Although also i should mention I am on a three point anchor here, to help combat the beam swell, and although the other two anchors are undersize, it gives me some added security, otherwise I would be using 10:1. I also have about 1000meters leeway to drag, and a 22kg anchor for my 8.5 ton boat, so I sleep just fine
I haven't dragged a foot in 5 months, although obviously by now it is buried pretty deep. I'm sure there is a "that's what she said" in there somewhere :P
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Old 23-05-2020, 16:20   #786
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

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Originally Posted by paralog View Post
10:1 - i bet you wear a belt and suspenders. This is for a hurricane, i don't know of anyone who would put out that much scope.
See this proves my point. Never trust ANY content regardless of level of obvious monitization or virtue signaling!

Kimo
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Old 23-05-2020, 16:23   #787
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

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Originally Posted by paralog View Post
10:1 - i bet you wear a belt and suspenders. This is for a hurricane, i don't know of anyone who would put out that much scope.


Or maybe if your anchoring in thick grass with a CQR
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Old 23-05-2020, 16:37   #788
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
All chain? All nylon rode? 50í of chain then the rest nylon? New generation anchor? CQR?
Danforth? Sand bottom? Scoured bottom? Grass? All this matters.
From what Iíve heard the best ratio for chain/rode is 7:1, and the best ratio for all chain is 5:1. Of course one has to use whatever they are comfortable with.
I was amazed when I dropped our Mantus in a patch of sand and reversed hard on a 2:1 scope. It dug in within a foot of where it hit.

Everyone posting ďuse 10:1 or youíre an idiotĒ should read SMJís post, particularly the first three paragraphs, and take the anecdote with a grain of salt just as the ones you posted yourselves.

A universal correct scope ratio is just not true - there are combinations of anchors, rodes, bottoms, depths and conditions that allow below 3:1 ratio for ultimate holding, and others that wonít hold reliably even with 10:1.

For general holding on a new generation anchor and all chain rode in regular depths, ratios anywhere between 3:1 and 7:1 are just fine. For known storm conditions, everything youíve got and then some.

And note that there are other ways to calculate scope that arenít a straight ratio of depth (plus freeboard and high water, blah blah blah). https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...th-170515.html

In the final analysis, each of us makes the decision for ourselves and should forbear insisting their way is the correct way. Guns, politics, monos vs cats, and religion anyone?
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Old 23-05-2020, 16:38   #789
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

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Or maybe if your anchoring in thick grass with a CQR


Here is the solution. One of you do a youtube channel about the process of anchoring in all kinds of beautiful different places and situations. Massive fights between husband and wife during anchoring. Film beautiful divers who go down (to the bottom) and show the setting. Feature unhurried trips ashore for interest and to show confidence in your setting. etc.

Accept NO FREE anchors, chain, line, windlass, gloves, or fiberglass work. This proves your virtue and allows you to get everything ELSE for free.

You will sleep like a baby on so many levels.

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Old 23-05-2020, 17:02   #790
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimo_Kai View Post
Here is the solution. One of you do a youtube channel about the process of anchoring in all kinds of beautiful different places and situations. Massive fights between husband and wife during anchoring. Film beautiful divers who go down (to the bottom) and show the setting. Feature unhurried trips ashore for interest and to show confidence in your setting. etc.



Accept NO FREE anchors, chain, line, windlass, gloves, or fiberglass work. This proves your virtue and allows you to get everything ELSE for free.



You will sleep like a baby on so many levels.



Kimo

Marooned on Maui

Panopeís already done that, less the click bait bikini shots, here in CF. Pretty much the same bottom for every anchor though, and very short scopes. Heís also on YT https://www.youtube.com/user/flygoodwin
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Old 23-05-2020, 17:08   #791
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

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Originally Posted by fxykty View Post

A universal correct scope ratio is just not true - there are combinations of anchors, rodes, bottoms, depths and conditions that allow below 3:1 ratio for ultimate holding, and others that wonít hold reliably even with 10:1.
Absolutely. Here in Mindelo the sand is mixed grain, from silt to pea size, and doesn't set hard, acts more like a liquid. My 16kg cqr ripped right out a couple of times at 7:1, but my fortress works just fine. Added to that are gusts up to and sometimes over 60 knots, but with virtually no swell or waves. Some beam swell, but that is a comfort issue rather than an anchoring one.
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Old 23-05-2020, 17:14   #792
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

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Originally Posted by fxykty View Post
Panopeís already done that, less the click bait bikini shots, here in CF. Pretty much the same bottom for every anchor though, and very short scopes. Heís also on YT https://www.youtube.com/user/flygoodwin

Interesting but not what I have in mind. You came up with the bikinis mate.
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Old 23-05-2020, 17:19   #793
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

And I should point out that I am chain and rode, I feel 10:1 is rather excessive for all chain...
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Old 24-05-2020, 01:27   #794
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

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Let me share some "Inside Info" that as a marina equipment vendor I see weekly...
Rich telling it how it is once again...
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Old 24-05-2020, 02:10   #795
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Re: Youtube liveaboard stars?

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Keith from Sailing Zatara recently said, in a response to a viewer question about the upgrades they did in NZ, that the upgrades were paid for by the respective companies as Sailing Zatara is a marketing channel. The formula is:
1) video where the new product is researched and decided upon
2) video of the order process
3) unboxing video
4) install video
5) first time usage video
6) constant references to product in future videos

Now I see this formula in many channels and each time I recognise it I unsubscribe.

At least SZ is open about it. In response to another question about satellite internet, Keith mentioned that he doesnít want to pay for upgrades and as a few other successful channels have recently installed it, presumably the systems are available at a deep discount from the respective manufacturers for social media marketing. Keith baldly said we havenít been offered a satellite system yet but would certainly offer the manufacturer lots of exposure through additional live SZ content.

Iím not going to stick around to see whether they get a satellite internet system.

The problem is, just as it is with all other social media influencers, how can you trust any of their content?
You made the right call - he just went political on his channel about NZ rights being impinged because we have spacing stickers outside shops...freedom yada yada yada.
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