Wood Stove

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Mike,

Before you decide one way or another I would suggest you talk to the local Espar dealer. He is nearby you in Stephenville. The web site is giving me a weird problem at the moment. But the name is ACPL Heating Systems. I found him quite helpful and knowledgeable. Straight shooter.

Thanks Howard. I’ll keep that in mind (and in the contact list). Like I say, I’m still wavering as to whether I really need more heat on board. If we were planning to do more high latitude travel, or started pushing the Fall/Spring seasons, then maybe… But as it is right now we’ve run the meth heater once this season (although I admit this summer has been unseasonably warm here in NFLD).

[Dymaxion]

Before I start, let me say I've wood heated an 2200sq ft leaky old house for 28 years and currently heat 900sq ft 2 story ski chalet, both fulltime through winters that can hit -30C.

Wood is wonderful heat, love it but... wood scavenging, storage, mess on a boat is more than I'd put up with. Refueling every 30-60 minutes absolutely sucks IMHO. No sleeping on the job. Especially if the fire goes out and you need to start it again with kindling... You'll really want winter heat the most when you are sick, or soaking wet, how will that work out when scavenging for fuel?

Looked at the Cubic Grizzly, looks great. Look into supplies of wood pellets in your area, they come in sealed 40lb bags that can be stored outdoors. You can get pellet baskets to fit wood stoves and work reasonably well. Refuel is a scoop or two of pellets. I've used the Webasto hot air units for years, VW buses have them. My ideal solution would be a 12v diesel 5000-8000btu Espar etc unit PLUS the Grizzly. The diesel hot air will maintain above freezing temps 24/7 in a smaller space, while you can load up the Grizzly at breakfast and during the day. Depending on a single heat source for winter camping long term isn't a great idea. I'd also consider plumbing a 12v air-handler unit into the coolant water outlet in your motor.

Hope these ideas help. Cheers.

[Ballenxj]

Originally Posted by Jammer

You may also be interested in the stoves from Navigator Stove Works


SARDINE STOVE INFO & SPECS.

Those are pretty interesting for use in more than just your boat.
Thanks for the links.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by LadyByrd

I really want a wood stove on my sail boat, specifically the cubic mini. I'll be living aboard in the Seattle area and will need the dry heat source. I understand you have to burn specific woood and storing wood can be a pain. And, the cleaning . Are those the main reasons? Why do I not see many sail boats having them? Is it harder to insure the boat with a wood stove? Isn't diesel more expensive if used regularly?

I'm trying to learn as much as I can before making the transition so that I can have a cozy first winter living aboard. Thank you to all for sharing your wisdom.

We lived on board in Seattle for 10 years before going cruising. There is nothing more cozy on those cold and drizzly nights then when you have plenty of dry heat and the flickering light from your heater fills the cabin. We used a diesel heater in addition to electric. Storing a pile of wood would be better suited for a cabin in the woods than a sailboat deck. Plus buying or cutting it and hauling it down the dock, etc. But mostly our choice of diesel was for reasons of BTU. Our boat needed 10,000 BTU to keep the boat warm on those really cold days and diesel packs a bigger punch. Nothing worse than having a cold, damp boat and shivering on the settee bundled up in a big coat.

Diesel has it's downsides: smoky, hard to keep burning is gusty winds, and unbelievable soot on the deck.

[bhillmail]

Have you thought about propane heat? I had an Olympian Wave catalytic heater for my winter in Boston harbor. They are used quite often in campers. I rigged it to stand without any danger of tipping over. Worked great. No ashes:-). Pretty efficient and easy enough to have a backup tank. I looked at a boat with a small wood stove, which seemed cool, but expect keeping a boat heated through the winter with it would have been a full time job.

[ikebartlett]

I travelled north from NC this year, I have a Wood stove on my C&C 40, spent all of June in Newfoundland, many nights it got down to freezing outside, at first I bought fire logs and broke them up, then some store bought wood bundles, cut up a few old hardwood floors pallets, even used some driftwood, had to under load the firebox or it would drive you outside due to being too warm inside,even with opening the windows, until I met a another wood burner. He uses a piece of fire-log to start and adds charcoal because it lasts longer than any wood, is the right size and you control the heat by adding only what you need. I aim my small fan at the wood stove to circulate the heat, it’s really nice and dealing with the ash is a non issue. I also keep a bit of very small hardwood kindling for those times I want to open the door and just watch the fire. Be warned, while in new harbors you will get knocks on your boat from people checking to see if anyone is inside a boat they think is on fire. I also found that due to the stove using inside air for combustion I was finding it drafty where new cold air came in to replace the air going up the stack, opening the window between the fan and the wood stove resolved that issue.

[Aeronaught]

I'm not sure that a wood stove on a boat is practical. I did have a small wood/coal stove on my schooner for a year or so while I was still in the boatyard. Blacksmithing coal (hard anthracite) is the cleanest...and it will bank nicely at night so the fire is easy to get going in the morning. Once I got closer to launch, I switched to one of the drip diesel heaters but eventually changed to a diesel forced air unit that had the luxury of a thermostat. THAT was sweet. Wintering over in Ketchekan AK with the forced air in the galley and the drip stove forward made it pretty comfortable. Boat was a 55' Herreshoff schooner (Valkyrie).

[djhunt]

Simple solutions.. always the best...
I kept my Catalina 27, “Kaikoura” at Friday Harbor, San Juan Island nearly 20 years ago. She had a lovely little Dickinson stainless steel wood burner mounted on the stbd bulkhead. Remembering my childhood, I tried “Presto-Logs” in it - and it was the perfect answer for me - clean, dry, good btu output, almost zero ash, clean burning, very easy to start, easy to store, and required no more collecting and labor.... I found them in grocery and hardware stores all over the islands and coastal ports. I have very fond memories of anchoring out on cool, wet, misty NW evenings and mornings and being warm, dry, and cozy! Fairwinds and warm fires!

[Montanan]

If you use a wood stove in the Seattle area a permit will be required to be obtained by the installer. The device must meet Washington certifications.

We use wood heat as a primary heating source for one of our two residences in Montana, it makes for a toasty warm home, and we also use wood burning stoves for two of our remote cabins in the mountains but wood heating is a challenge for all the reasons stated in the many posts.

For simplicity on a boat I would use diesel when there is not shore electrical power to provide for electric heating and / or to augment the electric heating capacities. Shore power is constrained as to its wattage at a marina and thus constrained as to its heating capacity. We also have our own hydroelectric power system for the two cabins in the mountains, electric is the easiest heating system but not as charming as a crackling fire and it is a PITA to get the water running in the middle of winter so the hydropower is limited to summer when heating is not required.

Reference to permit info:
http://www.seattle.gov/DPD/Publications/CAM/cam416.pdf

An additional issue with wood in the Seattle region is that the climate is very wet, so you will be hauling considerable amount of wood to your boat in the rain and storing the properly sized wood [read little pieces] would need to be enclosed facility. As to drift wood, you will require a chain saw to cut such to size and that wood is typically very moist and hard to burn. The chain saw will requires considerable maintenance and supplies of gasoline, two stroke oil, and chain lubricating oil. I own several saws and the little chain saws are comparatively a PITA as they simply do not start nearly as easily and their short and small chains dull faster than the much larger chain saw that we use on the big timber [e.g, 3 to 4 feet in diameter]. For cutting small lengths of small diameter wood one could get an electric or battery electric chain saw since the task is not power demanding. Much easier and more reliable than gasoline saws but not viable for large timber or cutting many cords in a single session.

The canal boats in London and Britain often have wood burning stoves and some have coal, but there are vendors that will navigate along the canals and provide routine scheduled deliveries to restock. Those boats are rarely warm during winter, just not as chilly. One has to wake up to stoke the fire in the middle of the night and when you go away to work during the day the fires burns out and the boat is chilly when you return and then need to restoke / relight and rewarm for the evening. Those canal servicing vendors will also resupply with diesel and pump out your canal boat, refill with water, so all the basic services can be had in your absence, all for a fee.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by bhillmail

Have you thought about propane heat? I had an Olympian Wave catalytic heater for my winter in Boston harbor. They are used quite often in campers. I rigged it to stand without any danger of tipping over. Worked great. No ashes:-). Pretty efficient and easy enough to have a backup tank. I looked at a boat with a small wood stove, which seemed cool, but expect keeping a boat heated through the winter with it would have been a full time job.

Unvented catalytic heaters pose a hazard of CO poisoning. While the catalyst, when working, all but eliminates the risk of CO toxicity, the catalyst deteriorates over time and can be adversely affected by contaminants in the cabin atmosphere (e.g. hairspray). I do not believe they are safe.


Beyond that, propane poses fire and explosion hazards on a boat, which have been discussed at length in other threads. Leaving the propane on while sleeping at dock or on the hook, without a watch, would pose particular hazards of its own.

[Boatyarddog]

Don't know how friendly insurance companies may treat you.
I'd go for a stove from Navigator Stove Works.
But not sure about a cubic mini, those seem too light duty.
All wood burners need a warm up period and a cool down period.
This makes immediate heating difficult.
How ever, a small electric heater at the dock will take the chill off in the morning quickly.
You also may consider the smoke in the marina for other boaters may complain.
Love wood heaters in general.
Cheers,
SV Cloud Duster

[Christhebuddist]

Have you looked at pellet fueled stoves. Easier storage, some are gravity fed. There are a few that may fit into a confined space.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Unvented catalytic heaters pose a hazard of CO poisoning. While the catalyst, when working, all but eliminates the risk of CO toxicity, the catalyst deteriorates over time and can be adversely affected by contaminants in the cabin atmosphere (e.g. hairspray). I do not believe they are safe.

Beyond that, propane poses fire and explosion hazards on a boat, which have been discussed at length in other threads. Leaving the propane on while sleeping at dock or on the hook, without a watch, would pose particular hazards of its own.

Additionally, catalytic propane does not vent the products out a stack, so you get a lot of moisture in the boat. I used one for a few years and it led to a lot of condensation when in use.

[rsn48]

A quick comment on timings for you northern west coast voyage. Bad weather usually begins in latter October but can come earlier. Two sail boats out of Hawaii left too late in September, one to Alaska and one to Seattle, neither were heard from after their departure; they ran into unexpected nasty weather.

For me, a combo package of diesel heat, electric heat and wood stove is how I would proceed. With wood stoves, the only thing that makes any sense to me is wood pellets, coal would work but messy, ditto bbq brickets, and pellets are cheap. I saw a bag at Canadian Tire for $6. The problem with pellets is availability, once north of Vancouver Island, all bets are off. In larger populated areas, you can get them, just not sure about less populated towns and villages.

Definitely talk to experienced knowleadgable people about your proposed route, timings, currents etc. When in doubt, talk to tug Captains, they will be your best source of knowledge. When pulling log booms or barrages, these Captains have time on their hands and most will converse on your marine radio.

[wingssail]

If you select diesel for heat, here are a few tips we learned (some the hard way):

Drip heaters, like Dickensen or Force 10 are simple, but a bit fussy, in my opinion. However we used one for years and still have it, but it requires attention.
Diesel forced air like Webasto or Espar are fantastic but more expensive to purchase and install, and you don't get that flickering firelight effect. We wore one out and removed it.
A tall smoke stack is important to keep a good draft going and we put an H-Pipe on the top. Sailing is difficult because the winds often blow out the fire and leave you with a cabin filled with acrid smoke.
Consider where your smoke and soot will go if you have a boat cover or boat tent.
Good 12v circulation fans and a heat deflector plate behind the heater and stack will protect the bulkhead and circulate the warm air. We actually used five fans with our HiSeas after I jacked up the burner to get 11,000 BTU
Don't leave one going when you are gone, and make sure you have good ventilation

Our HiSeas is on the left in this photo.