What's Necessary to Liveaboard in the PNW in Comfort?

[Eder]

Originally Posted by Macblaze

We want to get up to the Broughtons or maybe even further north and get away from it all for as many weeks as we can.

The boat has:
Full enclosure
110 feet of chain and a long stern line
75 gallon water tank
35 gallon holding tank
2-10 lb propane bottles
10' zodiac with 8hp outbaord

Seaward 6 gallon water heater
Fridge & Freezer Adler Barbour 12V plate & compressor
Propane stove and oven
Webasto hydronic heater

55 amp alternator
Magnum 2800 watt charger inverter with remote panel
4 Trojan t105+ (225 amps)

The only thing I have planned so far is to replace the 33lb Lewmar claw with a Rocna or Mantus.

.

Hi Mcblaze

We have a IP 460 doing what you want to...we spend our time between Campbell River & Ocean Falls and points between.
Imo
1.Webasto is great we have one...hook up the hot water option...I take 15 minute showers in the Spring its cold up here...full enclosure is toasty when the Webasto is running...maybe 1/2 gal diesel/hr but diesel is readily available throughout the Broughtons and many spots North of there.
2.We carry 2 10lb propane bottles...we bake bread almost every day...refill after about 3 months...propane is readily available in the Broughtons...you're gtg there.
3.Save spending money on all chain till you feel its necessary...we use all 3/8 chain but you are gtg this season then re-access next season.
4.Alternator sucks...pop on a Balmar 110 amp...not much $$
5. After our 1st season we added a water maker & 6kw Northern Lights gen...best money I ever spent as we use lots of water and it is scarce in the Broughtons. We added the gen as it allowed us to buy an ac watermaker and charges the battery's fast when we don't move....also now we have all the ac appliances so we can cook & eat like kings (and queens) ...important to make living aboard more fun.
6. I have a delta anchor....never gave me much trouble but am adding a large Rocna this season...deepest we anchored was about 80'....usually 40' or so is fine...7x rode scope is overkill here...you'll be bumping neighbors sometimes...30 knots of wind is a hurricane up here.
7.There are virtually no pump out stations up here...feed the fish but do it out in the current.
8.We tie up in Winter in Victoria but lots of reasonable rates further north and south in Port Townsend and Anacortes area...

Have fun see ya out there....Ed

[Volkeno]

I have never anchored in a place for more than a week, but with my 24 and 29 foot boats, I never had a chafing problem with a rope rode with 30' of chain. I never had a windlass either, so being able to pick up the anchor by hand was important. I almost never anchored in or near rocks if I could help it and all my anchor spots have been in Puget Sound or the San Juans and Gulf islands. All chain will give you peace of mind and add weight and expense. My 29 foot boat came with an anchor set up that had 10 feet of chain and it was a drag if the wind shifted, but the anchor with 30' chain held in 40knot winds. This was on a 7500 pound boat though. If you are venturing further north to stronger winds and currents, more chain is probably the way to go.
I lived on my boat two winters in Blaine and it was semi insulated, but the trick to avoiding the dreaded condensation is air movement and reducing humidity. I used a ceramic space heater at the dock connected to shore power and had a propane heater away from the dock. Propane is wet heat and adds moisture, so if I had a larger boat with space, I would get a wood stove like a Kimberly that is super efficient because wood heat does not add moisture. Whatever heat you use, having ventilation is key. I had little fans around and did not close anything off in winter so air could circulate. I also took showers at the marina and if I did any water boiling, I had the hatch open to vent.

I would second that in many anchorages a 7-1 scope isn't going to happen, since either more boats will crowd in or there just isn't space to swing. I keep a spool of floating line on the stern to tie to shore in places where you don't want to swing at all.

[CarinaPDX]

To those who are recommending propane/diesel heaters: the OP already has one of the best diesel heaters - not an issue.

As for the anchoring gear, I would never want to criticize the effectiveness of a rope/short chain rode - I used them for years to great effect. The problem with them is that the boat will move around a lot more than on a chain rode, and thus not play well with other boats in small anchorages. Also, in calm conditions you may find yourself anchored in deep waters where all chain will hold better on short scope - but of course can't be trusted if the weather kicks up. Sometimes up north you won't have a choice: either hold in deep water or keep moving on... Get used to setting anchor alarms (depth and GPS).

Greg

[newhaul]

I don't understand all the get a generator and solar is no good here we have 200 watts solar running the lights the refer and any thing else that takes 12volt haven't used engine to charge or used installed battery charger in over 2 months full time liveaboard plug into elec in marinas but all that runs is dads Mr coffee and the water heater and an electric heater when he's cold. We are in Tacoma just a lil south of you batteries were full charged today by noon even with the rain. One thing people didn't mention is with a gas generator you would have to carry sufficient fuel for it ( pain in the butt).
We are propane for cooking and have been cooking on on tank that was half full when dad bought the boat since last October. Expect at least two months on a single tank if you use the oven a lot. Longer if not. M2CW

[CarinaPDX]

200W should be enough with an efficient consumption system (I have 160W, which usually keeps up when I'm using them). What often gets lost in the discussion is that panels are highly temperature dependent; cold panels put out more energy than hot panels. If the panels are adjusted to aim at the lower winter sun they can put out a lot of power. Still I don't see them as necessary for a summer cruise, and it is cheaper to buy electricity than solar panels while in the marina. For world cruising I think they are must. All in good time. If running the engine is needed for charging this summer, and it annoys you, add another item to next winter's to-do list.

Greg

[newhaul]

Greg I did a little math and here it goes the main uses a half gallon per hour takes 2 hours to charge so 3 bucks a day power in a marina as a guest ranges from 3 to 8 bucks a night our whole setup cost 320 ( did my own install) 320/ by 3 bucks a day minimum panels would pay for themselves in just over 3 months and then they are saving money for the next 25 years even in our home marina we saw a 20 buck decrese in power bill so that by its self means paid in a mere 16 months if full time in marina sn there is the resale value/curb appeal of them.

[s/v Beth]

I think the above posts, especially by Wakefield, gives you an accurate idea of the problem. You consume a lot more during the winter, so your systems have to be more robust.
I would suggest you spend your first winter in a slip and learn to sail..

[cwyckham]

The biggest debate seems to be about the rope rode. I've cruised here for 8 years and never felt like I needed all chain. If you have 30' of chain and then rope, you'll wander too much in the crowded anchorages.

The OP, though, has 110' of chain. The anchorages here are sheltered and the holding is usually good in mud. Everyone is on 3:1 for the space or stern tied. Typical anchorages are 40-60' deep, so on 3:1, you'll be mostly on chain and you won't wander much.

As you get further north, the anchorages get ridiculously deep and you'll need most or all of your 300', but you'll be stern tied, so the rope's no issue.

[cwyckham]

Originally Posted by Macblaze

Thanks. I figure we will likely move every couple of days but as with all of this its pure speculation until I can finally get out there.

I've talked to both the GVHA and the Coast Harbourside Hotel and Marina. The GVHA dens't open their new bookings until the end of May and The Coast has a waiting list. So its just another of those things I don't know yet. Way too many of those right about now.

What's the Sail Mentor thing all about?

We had friends who wintered at GVHA. There always seemed to be space. No facilities, though.

The Sail Mentor thing is a website I'm building (launching 15 May) to help serve new sailors. We get so many new sailors here trying to find the same answers, I thought that an online resource would be helpful.

Pop on by, if you like, or just PM me if there's anything else I can do. I'd love to help in any way I can.

[Lepke]

Beside the danger, propane's by-product is moisture. Whenever you use your stove you're putting moisture in the air. In the PNW you already have enough natural moisture. No matter how warm the interior is, anything that can absorb moisture will feel damp. Clothes, bedding, etc. With dampness, metal zippers, snaps, or buttons on cheaper clothing will rust. If your Webasto draws combustion air from inside, you may stay dry. Otherwise a diesel stove or heater will keep the boat dry. Leaving a port open helps, but doesn't overcome the water from propane.
I commercial fished years ago. The boat I bought came with a propane stove. Until I could replace it, I had to use a squeegee on the inside of the pilothouse windows just to see where I was going. Fresh clothes were damp. I couldn't get dry after a shower, and on and on. Putting in a diesel stove made a completely different dry boat. My current boat has a hydronic system, but I heat the boiler from a pellet stove. And a diesel stove also heats the hot water. The boat is as comfortable as a house.
I cruise the PNW and have 300' of chain along with another 300' I can shackle on. Then 300' of heavy line I can either add to the chain or use with a 2nd anchor. The rule of thumb for chain anchor rode is 4:1 in good conditions. Then there's the tide to account for. I found few places of less than 10 fathoms where I want to anchor. (safe, scenic, no people)
I carry a boat to run in for supplies. I have my watermaker and batteries sized so I run a generator an hour every day or so. Thinking of solar. I winter at a private dock on the Columbia River.

[foojin]

macblase,

1. don't spend a dime until you have spent some time on the boat. Live on it and learn. You have lots of stuff to keep you comfortable for the first winter at least. PS: we have all chain and it is essential over coral in the tropics -- but not so essential here. Most people don't have all chain and seem to make out just fine.

2. GVHA does have great winter berthing at great rates. It's not that hard to get in, just be prompt. Get an application in when they tell you to. We have done it, but now have a year round berth at Fishermans Wharf. Don't know what cwyckham means by no facilities, but toilets, showers, restaurants, bars, politicians, jugglers... what more do you need? And you don't have to pay anyone to have any technician/mechanic visit your boat.

3. You will not be living in the PNW. You will be in the PSW, but Canucks just call it nirvana.

4. PM me if you want any help/info/whatever.

[Scout 30]

If you are replacing the water heater anyway don't go with another Seaward. I replaced my Raritan that had rusted out on the outside with a Seaward. We went from having water hot enough to shower after 2 days at anchor to not having hot water after 1 night.

[Scout 30]

I recommend getting a C-Head & replacing your holding tank with another water tank.

[newhaul]

The big issue I would have with a completion head in inland/ costal waters what do you do with all the urine that you have to separate out.

[mub]

Ok so living in the PNW.. so have some reference - technically we are at the dock. But we don't plug in.

We cook each day.. and go through 2.5lbs of propane every 4 weeks.
We go through 100Gal of water a week, but we shower aboard every day.
Holding tanks.. 11Gal a week is the pump out.

We heat with diesel (hot water and boat), and go through 200Gal a winter.

Power... We live happily with solar (300W) and wind and run computers and TV and microwave blarr blarr.
Solar works well in the PNW because it is cold and often sunny.

Mub

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Mub
Earendel
Wauquiez Centruion 47 #4