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Old 30-01-2018, 21:07   #1
KTP
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What sailboat is right for us?

My wife and I have been sailing a little Montgomery 17 pretty much all over the USA, dragging it with our home built RV (another story!). We have launched in the Pacific, Gulf, Atlantic and on lakes in about 16 states so far.

Anyway, we are back in the PacNW and bought some mountain land here, about 6 hours from the ocean. That was not far enough as we can still hear the call.

We are now trying to find a larger sailboat for extended trips and possibly living aboard (will keep the M17 forever I think). We think we might shuttle between living on the boat at times in the Sound and living on our property in the mountains in our RV setup.

We want to do the inside passage and would love to sail to the glaciers. After a couple of years puttering around the Sound (which we have done some of in our M17 already), we would take the boat through the Panama Canal and then do the Great Loop (or possibly have the boat shipped to the closest point on the loop from Washington). My wife wants to do an ocean crossing as well, but I want to see how these other trips go before committing to that.

Our budget is somewhat flexible but I would love to keep it under $80k, which means either finding a $70k boat that has been recently completely refitted or finding a $40k boat that the seller says needs $10k of work and end up spending another $40k on. I could justify and maybe budget spending up to $120k if I could convince myself the bargain was good enough that I could capture a good portion of that when we sell the boat in 5 to 7 years.

I am thinking something in the range of 30 to 40 feet, with a more ideal narrow range of 31 to 37 feet. For the loop the draft needs to be under 5 feet and obviously would be better if it were under 4.5 feet.

We looked at an Island Packet 31 (4 foot draft, 11.5 foot beam) and I thought "this is the boat! I don't care if it won't sail anywhere near the wind, it is the size of Montana inside!". Then I went online and discovered I am a better nautical engineer even though I studied electrical engineering as even I am not stupid enough to bury an item that corrodes and needs regular inspections under layers of fiberglass and cabinets. I am talking chainplates of course. I was just at a loss for words. You are looking at $12k to grind these out and replace them...the factory even offered this as a service.

So I have a 1988 IP31 that I was prepared to offer about $48k for which now in my eyes is only worth $36k...far below the current asking price. It also had the original diesel, so there is another $10k for replacement. Still...it is an extremely nice interior, a stout keel (iron filled though, not lead), and a 4 foot draft. Maybe I could re-engineer the chainplates to be external and perhaps I could do the engine install myself if the current engine is near EOL.

Moving on, I am eyeing some Pacific Seacraft 34 and a 37. Not as beamy, so not quite as much room, but the pictures seem to show external chainplates at least. They are listed at prices from $68k to $84k, or $179k for the 1995 37 which looks to have had a 2012+ complete refit including standing rigging. I do not know what the "real" price would be for those.

Any other suggestions? I don't mind doing some work but we don't want a 2 year project that never sees the water (we already spent 2 years building our RV from scratch). I also don't want to put $90k into a $10k bargain boat.

Thanks!
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Old 30-01-2018, 21:18   #2
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Re: What sailboat is right for us?

Good luck in your search. You have good taste.

I think you will find that the PS37 is beyond the budget you have chosen.

PS34 are selling quite a bit cheaper and may fit what you want.

A fact to consider is that you may want two different boats. The PS37 is perhaps not ideal for the Great Loop, for example. Certainly not necessary as much more modest craft will serve.
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Old 30-01-2018, 22:44   #3
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Re: What sailboat is right for us?

I think comfort starts at 40´. What about a Freedom 40? I think you can pick up one of these for 40-50k. These are odd, but well-sailing boats, with a very nice motion, and low draft.

I like the traditional, no-nonsense lines, the simple rigging, and a well thought out traditional interior. The ones I have seen were of excellent built quality, but see below.

The downside is that these boats are, to my knowledge, built with balsa-cored hulls. So a hull survey is definitely required. The positive side to this is the boat is well insulated and quiet.
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Old 30-01-2018, 23:08   #4
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Re: What sailboat is right for us?

Alaska?
Inside passage?
PNW?
ICW?
Big Loop?

Much of those areas are either cool wet weather, light winds, or extensive motoring.

I would prefer a pilothouse boat. With inside steering position and good visibility and comfortable saloon and good pilothouse seating for the captain and admiral to stay warm and dry while motoring or motorsailing thousands of miles.
Like the Nauticat 38.

1985 Nauticat 38 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Good luck on your decision.
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Old 30-01-2018, 23:22   #5
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Re: What sailboat is right for us?

That naughtycat had a 6 foot draft which would be borderline no go on the loop.

There is more wind in the Puget Sound than you might think. We regularly sail from Everett marina down toward Elliot Bay in our M17 doing 5.5 knots (have seen speeds of 7.1 knots but in a 17 foot boat that was either surfing or had some current helping). Out of Port Townsend you can hit 20 to 30 knot winds quite often.

I have heard that stretches of the inside passage are like a calm lake though...

I am more and more interested in the PS34 as I think we could make that work and I love the 4'1" or 4'11" drafts. There are three currently in the Seattle area at $68k (1989), $69k(1990), and $84k (1994). The $84k one has the smaller draft. I do not know what a reasonable offer would be on these yet but the prices do not seem far out of line with asking prices in other parts of the USA.
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Old 31-01-2018, 09:27   #6
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Re: What sailboat is right for us?

You certainly have made a tall order! As I see it, you have several contradicting desires. A boat for the great loop is very different than a boat for ocean crossings. You could find a boat that does both, but it would do neither very well. My suggestion would be to get a small powerboat or trawler to do the great loop, then sell it to get a rugged coastal cruiser once you are ready for some salty water. If there were one boat that could do it all, thats the only boat the world would need. But it does not exist. Every boat is a compromise. And there will always be more boats. Think about your next big trip, and buy accordingly. When that's done, who knows what will happen next. Buy well and you will be able to recoup your money to buy the next boat. There will always be a next boat.
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Old 31-01-2018, 09:46   #7
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Re: What sailboat is right for us?

How about a new Pogo 30 without any of the expensive options like carbon mast, etc.? The base price is about $95K. Maybe you can keep sail away price at around $120K. A Pogo 30 has swing keel( under a meter minimum draft and is beach able), a very broad beam so space wise it is more like a typical 35 ft boat. It is built to cross oceans and withstand high forces. You can see videos on youtube(see links below), of such. Waiting list is about 1 year. It has foam injected in various areas so it is next to impossible to sink(I would never say "impossible" to sink, because some one will find a way!). A new Pogo 30 likely will hold it's value as well as anything that works for you. Pogo 30's are designed to plane at 8 knots boat speed. If you are not too loaded down you can achieve that at aprox. 14 knots of wind on most points of sail. I am close buying a Pogo 30 myself.

A Pogo 30 is a bit more than your budget. But I think you would come out ahead considering resale, safety, fun, boat speed, and comfort compared to your other options.

A Pogo 36 would be even better but sail away of a new stripped down version I think would be aprox. 200K and the wait list is 3 years.







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Old 31-01-2018, 09:54   #8
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Re: What sailboat is right for us?

I think the IP was a good choice. Many boats have compromises and many have the chainplates buried. Had they been properly maintained (which most never are) they would be fine. For the inside passage etc be sure to get a boat that motors well. Here in the PNW there are many strong currents and winds in channels that disallow sailing at times.
Rounding Vancouver Island is a great trip also, maybe a a good prep for the complete inside passage.
As you noted, there is a huge difference in inside room in boats of the same length. My personal opinion there is nothing about PacSeacraft that is worth the money. Some are oler tech designs and shorter water lines than other boats. Interiors are very plain jane with little true detailed wood craftsmanship for the $.... or at least were years ago.
I got on a brand new 34 ft PS years ago in Seattle. It had just arrived from manufacture and wasn't even fully unwrapped yet, but the broker let me get up on it. The rear deck was severely cracked for 8-10" with a gap of 1/16" max. It looked to me like bad resin/gel that had been mixed way too hot. Then one wonders "what about other areas in the hull and deck?"So the "super quality" myth was busted. The fact that it actually left the factory that way was even more disturbing. Mistakes happen ... I understand... but still it was pretty surprising.
Incidentally, in the PNW a "grounding" may be hitting a rock, not just a soft grounding like many places. A modern short fin keel in that instance may end up with $20k or more damage from doing so. Dont ask how I know.
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Old 31-01-2018, 10:08   #9
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Re: What sailboat is right for us?

Well here is one ready to go with little work and you could do it backwards! Start in the Bahamas, do the Western Caribbean then Panama, up to Mexico then points north! Turn key and ready to go, could get her close to the upper end of your budget perhaps if willing to wait till June :-)

1994 Hunter Legend sailboat for sale in Florida

Check out Hunter? Really? on blog for more thoughts on these!

Good luck! My Dad had a Montgomery 17 as well, many great memories. That was followed by a Cornish Shrimper that I would love to buy back. Will find it one day. We do the RV thing as well, great balance!
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Old 31-01-2018, 10:28   #10
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Re: What sailboat is right for us?

You haven't said what order you want to do the bucket list in so I have taken the liberty to decide for you

You are starting in Europe with a gentle sail down to the Canaries, across the Atlantic next winter and through the Caribbean in the Spring of 2019 which puts you into the ICW for the summer of 2019.

Let is know when you have finished that.

Oh and here is your yacht, complete with lifting keel for the ICW and parking on the beaches in the Bahamas

1991 Alubat Ovni 36 Sail New and Used Boats for Sale -

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Old 31-01-2018, 10:28   #11
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Re: What sailboat is right for us?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KTP View Post
That naughtycat had a 6 foot draft which would be borderline no go on the loop.

There is more wind in the Puget Sound than you might think. We regularly sail from Everett marina down toward Elliot Bay in our M17 doing 5.5 knots (have seen speeds of 7.1 knots but in a 17 foot boat that was either surfing or had some current helping). Out of Port Townsend you can hit 20 to 30 knot winds quite often.

I have heard that stretches of the inside passage are like a calm lake though...

I am more and more interested in the PS34 as I think we could make that work and I love the 4'1" or 4'11" drafts. There are three currently in the Seattle area at $68k (1989), $69k(1990), and $84k (1994). The $84k one has the smaller draft. I do not know what a reasonable offer would be on these yet but the prices do not seem far out of line with asking prices in other parts of the USA.
It was also ketch rigged. Two masts to come down for the loop. Other that and that one was on the other cost.
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Old 31-01-2018, 10:40   #12
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Re: What sailboat is right for us?

Our 32 foot Seaward Hake is for sale, 2009 always maintained. It is in Puerto Vallarta and we just reduced price to 74,000. We love the retractable keel, and the cabin is spacious. Our health is forcing us to sell. Email me bernadette59@hotmail.com if you are interested. ps closer to Panama!!
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Old 31-01-2018, 10:41   #13
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Re: What sailboat is right for us?

Find a CS 36 Traditional with a Scheel keel and you've got a great sailing boat, sails circles around your IP. They are built very well and can take you anywhere offshore. Designed by Ray Wall of Camper Nicholson fame and built by a top Canadian builder you can't go wrong with these boats if they have been well kept up. Also within your budget.
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Old 31-01-2018, 10:50   #14
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Re: What sailboat is right for us?

The IP 31 is a nice boat. You could check the integrity of the chainplates by over-tensioning the rigging to about 60% of breaking load on forestay and 40% on shrouds (take one pair at a time, there are limits to the compression strength of the mast). Doesn't mean they will not fail 10 years from now, but they are OK for now. The advantage is, you test the rigging wires at the same time. For the engine, why do you need to change it? Age in itself is not a good reason. But of course, I would have a good mechanic check it.
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Old 31-01-2018, 10:54   #15
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Re: What sailboat is right for us?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KTP View Post
I am more and more interested in the PS34 as I think we could make that work and I love the 4'1" or 4'11" drafts. There are three currently in the Seattle area at $68k (1989), $69k(1990), and $84k (1994). The $84k one has the smaller draft. I do not know what a reasonable offer would be on these yet but the prices do not seem far out of line with asking prices in other parts of the USA.
PM me an email address and I will send you the actual sales data for these models from soldboats.com

This site will not let me upload them.
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