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Old 01-02-2018, 13:04   #31
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Re: What sailboat is right for us?

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Given your position and budget of 40 grand I would find a nice Niagara 35. These boats are built very well and are shallow draft. They have a good history of crossing oceans and good all round boats
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Cored hulls below waterline. Concerning on a 37 year old boat?
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Old 01-02-2018, 13:19   #32
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Re: What sailboat is right for us?

It's not so much about cored hulls as it is about the builder. To begin with..cored hulls are used in many boats these days and used by some world class boat builders. Hinterholler was in its day a world class builder with deep knowledge of cored hull design and build methods and their boats are still going strong after all these years. It's not difficult for a decent surveyor to inspect a cored hull for any delamination. Personally I have owned 4 different offshore boats and I would not think twice to own a nice Niagara 35, they are excellent boats. Do your homework and talk to knowledgeable people who are ex owners or surveyors who know these boats very well, I doubt you will get negative feedback. You can always find someone who has neglected their boats but these are great boats if properly looked after. I would feel more comfortable in serious weather offshore in one of these boats that any high production 35 footers available today, they are in a different league, they are stick built as only the finest boats built today with no glued in liners that prevail in today's high production boats. They were designed and built for the rigors of offshore.
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Old 01-02-2018, 13:46   #33
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Re: What sailboat is right for us?

We have quite a bit of time sailing the Pacific Sea Craft Crealock 37's. and 34's, and even the 27 foot Orions.

Erica owned a Crealock 37, and we had two Crealock 34's in the sailing club for several years. For the budget, and cruising, we would probably select the 34 , especially for two people and save the extra out lay of cash on the 37.
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Also, I would love to sail an Island Packet, have only admired them from afar.
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Two of my sailing students, many years back, left the sailing club, and we lost track of them. Bill and Vicky were outstanding people and serious about sailing and learning.

A few years later : Erica and I, and another couple were bare boating the BVI, and had just left the baths in the dink headed for Virgin Gorda Yacht Harbor where we were slipped. Short distance.

I spy this very lovely , pristine, bristol Crealock 34, anchored off, and I say, " There is a Crealock 34, lets go by and take a look at her." The skipper was topside cleanings something and the wife was in the cockpit.

" Very nice Crealock that you have there, skipper ! " He hails us back with a mile. We are now about 30 feet away in our dink. The wife gets up, leans her hands on the life and then points at me and shouts

" Denny ! You taught us how to sail ! " Turns out they had been sailing the Caribbean for several years, and that Crealock 34 looked brand new. Just the two of them and Bill is a big powerful guy, and Viki is slim and short. They were loving the cruising life.

It was my birthday and party night, and several other friends, some they knew , were celebrating at Pirates on Saba.....long before it became the very nice resort of today.

Point being, those were two people that we knew, on the Crealock ( Pacific Seacraft)
34. Totally pleased and happy with the choicem0f boats and cruising grounds, that they had made. Stout well built vessel, beautiful lines, and super seaworthy.
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One of these days, I will find a way to do some cruising on an island packet. We have talked to Island Packet owners, ashore, or at fuel docks, who all seem highly pleased and proud of their vessels. .

Everyone of those Island Packets that I have seen were also in bristol condition. And showed pride of ownership.

Hope this helps you out a bit...there are lots of choices out there.
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Old 01-02-2018, 14:23   #34
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Re: What sailboat is right for us?

Ok, well lets go back and discuss the IP31 and how one might approach it in a cost of ownership and suitability fashion.

1) Nice boat. Very roomy inside for a 31 (even though it is really 34 LOA).

2) Doesn't sail particularly fast or very close to the wind.

3) Buried chainplates which cannot be inspected. Aluminum tanks which could have issues.

4) Older 3GM 24hp Yanmar, would prefer 3YM 29 hp newer version.

5) Extremely easy to move around on deck. So WIDE. Almost could ride a rascal to the bow on each side of cabin.

So with the positives and negatives here, if someone found one for, say $65,000 asking price with a few new items but original standing rigging, engine, tanks, what might be a fair or good deal?

$65,000 - $15,000 for new standing rigging - $10,000 for new engine - $5,000 for new tanks.

Now you are at $35,000. Can you expect to get a boat listed at $65,000 for $35,000 or is this being unrealistic?
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Old 01-02-2018, 15:06   #35
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Re: What sailboat is right for us?

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Ok, well lets go back and discuss the IP31 and how one might approach it in a cost of ownership and suitability fashion.

1) Nice boat. Very roomy inside for a 31 (even though it is really 34 LOA).

2) Doesn't sail particularly fast or very close to the wind.

3) Buried chainplates which cannot be inspected. Aluminum tanks which could have issues.

4) Older 3GM 24hp Yanmar, would prefer 3YM 29 hp newer version.

5) Extremely easy to move around on deck. So WIDE. Almost could ride a rascal to the bow on each side of cabin.

So with the positives and negatives here, if someone found one for, say $65,000 asking price with a few new items but original standing rigging, engine, tanks, what might be a fair or good deal?

$65,000 - $15,000 for new standing rigging - $10,000 for new engine - $5,000 for new tanks.

Now you are at $35,000. Can you expect to get a boat listed at $65,000 for $35,000 or is this being unrealistic?
Right now on Yachtworld there are 6 IP 31s listed in the 40's and 4 in the 30's. You might not be able to get one that's listed for $65,000 for $35,000 but I'll bet you could get one that's listed at $35,900 for less than 35. One of them even comes with a trailer!

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...tByPriceDesc|1
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Old 01-02-2018, 18:34   #36
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Re: What sailboat is right for us?

Hmm, yes they are sure cheaper east of the west coast. They want $65k for them out here. That fresh water one looks interesting in the Ozarks. Spent the whole life in one pond?

I am starting to have the idea that the easiest way to a blue water sailboat is "whatever" + EPIRB since every boat seems to have something someone doesn't like.
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Old 01-02-2018, 18:56   #37
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Re: What sailboat is right for us?

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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I am starting to have the idea that the easiest way to a blue water sailboat is "whatever" + EPIRB since every boat seems to have something someone doesn't like.
May be not so much.

Your plans include multiple different uses that are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

You have a nice property and good things going on in your life. I just moved to BC from N California 1 1/2 years ago. Change is fun.

But there are simply too many danged boats out there. To ask a "what should I buy?" even with your very good presentation on your experiences, goals and activities.

If you reconsider your OP, it could also be akin to asking your mother: "What girl should I marry?" before you've had a first date. OK, in your case, second date, you already have a boat.

Kinda unfair blaming the messengers.
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Old 01-02-2018, 21:04   #38
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Re: What sailboat is right for us?

Yes, I am starting to sound all mopey and we do have a pretty nice life (late 40s, retired, only real problem now is not enough snow to ride our snowmobiles). We mostly can live like this because we live cheap (we pooped in a bucket all spring/summer/fall on our mountain property which has $29 a year in taxes!). Trying to bring that level of cheap to sailboat reality, where $1000 is the sales tax you pay on this or that needed item is a little sticker shock.

I am toying with the idea of doing the Great Loop in our Montgomery 17, sailing as much of it as possible. We have never stayed in the little cabin longer than the 10 or so days during a San Juan Islands sail in Washington but I think a lot of the loop you could just pop off at a marina every few days and check in a B&B or hotel for a nice hot shower and stretch. We have like no draft in the M17 (can beach it with our new kick up rudder) and I can take the mast down while on the water in about 5 minutes).

I love sailing narrow passages and tacking, like this canal where we were pretty much headed dead into the wind. She probably needs some attention to shroud tension to point a little better, but we did manage it with no motor use while dodging fishermen and stumps.
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Old 01-02-2018, 21:05   #39
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Re: What sailboat is right for us?

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Hmm, yes they are sure cheaper east of the west coast. They want $65k for them out here. That fresh water one looks interesting in the Ozarks. Spent the whole life in one pond?

I am starting to have the idea that the easiest way to a blue water sailboat is "whatever" + EPIRB since every boat seems to have something someone doesn't like.
The IP 31 could easily be trucked to your area. We bought our Scout 30 up in Michigan & had it trucked to Tampa Bay for about $2,000. That was a while back but fuel is still pretty cheap right now.

It is true that every boat is a compromise. IMHO if there's only one thing about a boat you don't like it's probably the perfect boat for you. In the end it doesn't matter what any of us think about a boat. All that matters is what you think.
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Old 01-02-2018, 22:16   #40
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Re: What sailboat is right for us?

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I am starting to have the idea that the easiest way to a blue water sailboat is "whatever" + EPIRB since every boat seems to have something someone doesn't like.
I am rather upset when I read these types of comments. Basically you are saying, no problem, I can go out in a leaking basket, if something goes wrong, somebody else can risk their lives to save me.

I know this is not what you meant, but for me an EPIRB is the LAST link in a chain that starts with a capable boat and a competent crew. In all likelihood never to be used. Rescues at sea are often high risk, both for the rescue crew and the rescued.

And yes, prices are higher on the West Coast, because it is not so flooded by ex-charter boats you can buy cheaply. Buying somewhere else and trucking it to your place is a good option. 10000$ maintenance per year seems very high for a 35' boat if you can do most of the jobs yourself.
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Old 01-02-2018, 22:21   #41
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Re: What sailboat is right for us?

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Cored hulls below waterline. Concerning on a 37 year old boat?
Always concerning, here is a good description of the reality:

Structural Issues : Core Materials
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Old 01-02-2018, 22:46   #42
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Re: What sailboat is right for us?

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I am rather upset when I read these types of comments. Basically you are saying, no problem, I can go out in a leaking basket, if something goes wrong, somebody else can risk their lives to save me.
Yes it was not a serious comment. I am all about safety which is why I was so concerned with the 30 year old stainless steel rigging/chainplates on the IP31.
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Old 01-02-2018, 23:42   #43
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Re: What sailboat is right for us?

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Old 02-02-2018, 00:58   #44
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Re: What sailboat is right for us?

If you want a really solid sailboat look at the Spencer 42's or 35's they are really solid little ships, I own hull #7 of the 42's, no coring material, solid fiberglass, many have circumnavigated.

IMHO they are some of the best sailboats ever built, there are several for sale in the PNW, if you would like any more information I am one of the mods on the Spencer Owners Group, I will be happy to answer any questions you have.

They are older boats, but I would trust them over many of the boats built new today. They also have a reputation for being a fine sailing craft that are robust and fast!

Good Luck to you, and if you make id down to the Tacoma area, I am on the Foss Waterway and will be more than happy to meet up and talk sailing.

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Old 02-02-2018, 11:31   #45
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Re: What sailboat is right for us?

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Always concerning, here is a good description of the reality:

Structural Issues : Core Materials

That was an excellent link,TY
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