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Old 16-11-2016, 16:08   #121
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Re: What is the cheapest to maintain sub 30 feet powerboat?

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I have that "flare" it is nothing more than an LED flashlight and a piece of orange plastic for the day signal. I have it to satisfy a legal requirement but as an emergency signaling device in my opinion it's a joke. Keep your pyro flares, I will buy some Solas one when we leave
More of a strobe than a flashlight. Not to many flashlights visible for 10 miles. 60 hours sure beats 6 seconds. Of course I'll still carry my several decades of flares but I'm not buying anymore & not worrying about their expiration date.
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Old 16-11-2016, 17:38   #122
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Re: What is the cheapest to maintain sub 30 feet powerboat?

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I'm still trying to wrap my head around this. We get it that you can live in a small space but why the intense drive to go smaller? So far you haven't articulated why you want to go smaller other than you can.

Also, I've stayed in a pod hotel before and it would be huge compared to the cabin on typical 25-27' monohull.

So to reiterate a64pilot's question: Why are you so focused on the smallest boat possible?
It's a complex issue for me, but it's a definite longterm drive to live in smaller more compact spaces. It forces me to think more compact, to have less items and to use the items I have in ways they weren't exactly made to be used.

We are planning to temporarily live in a liveaboard boat via AirBnB, just to get the feel of the size of sub 30 feet, before doing the plunge. Additionally, anchoring out is a long term goal of the future, when I get much more experienced.

Either way, my love for tiny living spaces I guess started out when I was 13 and spent 3 months in Tokyo. It has reverberated throughout my life and very very luckily my wife is also a great fan of it.

The pod hotel we spent one night in Tokyo was almost literally a coffin (my favourite size of a bed ) but we also spent time in a bit larger pod in the Nakagin Tower that is comparatively similar to a 30 feet boat in terms overall size.
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Old 16-11-2016, 18:38   #123
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Re: What is the cheapest to maintain sub 30 feet powerboat?

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It's just I think that to do that in a 26' boat will cost more money and not work as well or be as safe as a 30ish ft boat that already has the required systems in place.
Unless you want to live like you do living in a tent, then a 26' boat would likely work OK, maybe. But you still have the sanitation issue to deal with.
Just think about trying to safely heat a 26' boat, or have some form of head, sink to wash dishes, prepare food, cook, carry enough water to last a few days, room to mount enough Solar to get by, a battery bank large enough, the problems go on and on.
Heck you can live in a car, most that do, don't I believe do so by choice though.
...

4 or so more ft of boat and it all becomes do-able, in my opinion is all.
For now all that I got to compare with is my short stay in a 33 foot boat and tons of Youtube videos of the interiors of sub 30 feet boats. They had batteries, head, pumps, engines going for them, all in sailing condition. They were sailing around the west coast. What we took from that experience was that the boat was much larger than what we want.

That's why we started leaning towards smaller sub 30 feet boats. We don't own many important things. We try to keep the quantity down and quality up of the things we own. Almost everything new that we buy, we consider "is it portable, is it light, is it small enough, can it be packed, is it essential". This is mostly because we've been moving from country to country and apartment to apartment, but it is also because we love to own less and focus on the things that are basic and necessary.

This will translate good into the confines of a smaller boat. How small exactly will probably be determined when we physically get into a boat of a certain size and stay there for a while "the AirBnB temporary plan".

But I'm also taking into account what you guys are saying, in terms of the minimum size requirements for a liveaboard small boat. That a bit larger boats can be cheaper to run etc.

We're not poor exactly and can hold our own well, but this is true only relatively recently (last 3-4 years?). Before that, we stayed with our parents in eastern Europe and held random jobs.

We'd rather put the money paying for rent, into something that we own and love, something that we can maintain and optimize. Apartment rentals don't have this, and are usually too huge for us (Singapore has massive apartments and we were struggling to find something small, America has even bigger ones).

Please ignore the anchoring out option. This will require much more research and preparation and until we're on a boat, know how to sail and maintain the boat, almost all preparations on my side are blind. That's for the far future.

Right now our plan is to get into a marina and train sail, adapt to the boat, optimize the boat for our needs etc.
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Old 17-11-2016, 07:49   #124
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Re: What is the cheapest to maintain sub 30 feet powerboat?

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Berkeley Marina (for instance) is about $10/foot/month berth rental (plus utilities) and a $200/month liveaboard fee.
That seems fairly reasonable.. That is about what I was paying in Kemah Texas, and about the going rate in Corpus Christi, though at the city marina at Port Aransas it is a little cheaper (though the facilities are not as nice as they were in Kemah).. Minimum length for live aboards add additional fees of between 75 to 100 a month, and minimum lengths are 30 feet (you can live on a smaller boat, but you have to be at the larger dock)..

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Old 17-11-2016, 19:17   #125
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Re: What is the cheapest to maintain sub 30 feet powerboat?

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... Minimum length for live aboards add additional fees of between 75 to 100 a month, and minimum lengths are 30 feet (you can live on a smaller boat, but you have to be at the larger dock)..

flk k
Is this for all docks concerning liveaboards? Or would they flat out refuse you if you have a smaller boat?
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Old 18-11-2016, 06:55   #126
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Re: What is the cheapest to maintain sub 30 feet powerboat?

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It's a complex issue for me, but it's a definite longterm drive to live in smaller more compact spaces. It forces me to think more compact, to have less items and to use the items I have in ways they weren't exactly made to be used.

We are planning to temporarily live in a liveaboard boat via AirBnB, just to get the feel of the size of sub 30 feet, before doing the plunge. Additionally, anchoring out is a long term goal of the future, when I get much more experienced.

Either way, my love for tiny living spaces I guess started out when I was 13 and spent 3 months in Tokyo. It has reverberated throughout my life and very very luckily my wife is also a great fan of it.

The pod hotel we spent one night in Tokyo was almost literally a coffin (my favourite size of a bed ) but we also spent time in a bit larger pod in the Nakagin Tower that is comparatively similar to a 30 feet boat in terms overall size.
Sounds like you want to live in small space for no objective reason but just because that is your goal to live in the smallest possible space. Nothing wrong with that (most land based people would consider living in a 30-40' boat crazy).

If your goal is the absolute smallest, there are some sub-20' boats that have a cabin you can crawl into and sleep. With the cabin 6-10" above your face while lying down, it will definitely have that coffin feel. Not for us but if it makes you happy and you aren't hurting anyone more power to ya.

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Old 18-11-2016, 08:10   #127
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Re: What is the cheapest to maintain sub 30 feet powerboat?

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Is this for all docks concerning liveaboards? Or would they flat out refuse you if you have a smaller boat?
First I do want to say I do appreciate what you are trying to do, and from what you and others said about you, I would be proud to have you and your wife as a dock mate.. You do sound like a person who also would not like to have poorly maintained boats moored around you.. Thank you..

Currently I only have a nice clean but little 26.5 Hunter and though it is great for perhaps extended weekend stays, does not really have accommodations (suitable me at least) to live aboard.. Still I did ask at the marina in Kemah where I bought the boat, and they did not have a problem as long as I was moored at the larger docks (and paying the higher leasing, and live aboard fees)..

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Old 18-11-2016, 08:11   #128
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Re: What is the cheapest to maintain sub 30 feet powerboat?

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Is this for all docks concerning liveaboards? Or would they flat out refuse you if you have a smaller boat?
No all Marina's, but many, and yes they will flat out refuse you.
Some states it's even illegal to live aboard, Georgia I think it is, yet there are some live aboard Marina's so that may be incorrect.
Florida its apparently illegal to live in a house if its not connected to the grid, sound nuts, but maybe it is.

I lived in our 5th wheel camper for a year when we renovated our house, just parked it right beside the house and plugged into the septic tank and drew power from the box meant for the heat pump. It was in the country and I owned 100 acres, when I went to pay my property taxes one year, I found out that was illegal, you can't live in your 5th wheel.

Laws are flaky, take nothing for granted, common sense sometimes isn't. Have to check I guess.
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Old 18-11-2016, 08:33   #129
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Re: What is the cheapest to maintain sub 30 feet powerboat?

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Sounds like you want to live in small space for no objective reason but just because that is your goal to live in the smallest possible space. Nothing wrong with that (most land based people would consider living in a 30-40' boat crazy).

If your goal is the absolute smallest, there are some sub-20' boats that have a cabin you can crawl into and sleep. With the cabin 6-10" above your face while lying down, it will definitely have that coffin feel. Not for us but if it makes you happy and you aren't hurting anyone more power to ya.

Hhahah thanks for the tip! But I'm going to live there with my wife and we will need the space. As others have mentioned, the head, water storage etc needs its space too.

Other than my eternal fixation with tiny living spaces, it's also about maintenance, slip price, portability etc. I also love when everything has to have a place, otherwise it's out of place and it's crowded.

Essentially, most of my young life, I've lived with people that live in large houses, that are hard to keep pristine, and never kept them as such. That's the life of most of the Balkans, Eastern Europe. Later on we moved to Vienna and things were very different, but our trips to Tokyo were the most inspirational... Along with where we are staying right now, Singapore (in terms of cleanliness)
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Old 18-11-2016, 09:55   #130
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Re: What is the cheapest to maintain sub 30 feet powerboat?

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Hhahah thanks for the tip! But I'm going to live there with my wife and we will need the space. As others have mentioned, the head, water storage etc needs its space too.

Other than my eternal fixation with tiny living spaces, it's also about maintenance, slip price, portability etc. I also love when everything has to have a place, otherwise it's out of place and it's crowded.

Essentially, most of my young life, I've lived with people that live in large houses, that are hard to keep pristine, and never kept them as such. That's the life of most of the Balkans, Eastern Europe. Later on we moved to Vienna and things were very different, but our trips to Tokyo were the most inspirational... Along with where we are staying right now, Singapore (in terms of cleanliness)
But that's the point. At 25' with your wife, a head, a galley and all the other stuff needed, it's a really tight fit and moving up to a 30' boat will be negligible cost difference as most marinas (particularly if they allow liveaboard) have minimum price based on 30-35', so you really aren't gaining anything.

Maintenance is not going to be significantly different. Yes, maintenance does go up with size but it's an exponential growth thing and 25-30' is down on the flat part of the curve.

Objectively, there is no significant advantage in going smaller in your situation and some very significant downsides.


And trust me, we are on a 34' catamaran and if everything does not go back into it's place as soon as you are done using it, things get out of control very quickly. Nothing comes on board without prior consideration of where it will go and if something else needs to leave.
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Old 18-11-2016, 10:28   #131
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Re: What is the cheapest to maintain sub 30 feet powerboat?

If they can live in a minimum amount of space, without clawing each others eyes out. God bless them.
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Old 18-11-2016, 10:39   #132
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Re: What is the cheapest to maintain sub 30 feet powerboat?

Name of the thread is what is the cheapest, have to think money is an issue as much as space. That is why I was pushing the 30 to 35 boat that already has all the required systems, sure you could likely add them in a small boat, but the cost is going to exceed the larger one that already has them, and I doubt they would do anything for resale, so likely its lost money too.
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Old 18-11-2016, 10:43   #133
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Re: What is the cheapest to maintain sub 30 feet powerboat?

The other thing is there seems to be many, many 30ish, 40 or so yr old boats available, they are everywhere and as the supply far exceeds the demand many can be had for almost nothing, or actually nothing.
So pick the one that is in the best condition that has a lay out that you like in the location you want and buy it or take it off of someone's hands.
In the SE US there is no shortage of these boats, I assume this is true elsewhere?
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Old 18-11-2016, 19:48   #134
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Re: What is the cheapest to maintain sub 30 feet powerboat?

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Name of the thread is what is the cheapest, have to think money is an issue as much as space. That is why I was pushing the 30 to 35 boat that already has all the required systems, sure you could likely add them in a small boat, but the cost is going to exceed the larger one that already has them, and I doubt they would do anything for resale, so likely its lost money too.
Actually it's about cheapest to maintain. Not cheap in general. It could be an initially more expensive boat than others.
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Old 18-11-2016, 19:50   #135
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Re: What is the cheapest to maintain sub 30 feet powerboat?

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If they can live in a minimum amount of space, without clawing each others eyes out. God bless them.
We've done extremely small apartments before and we still both have eyes
But boat is different, that's why we gravitate towards 30 feet. Also as a64pilot said, there's just more 30feet boats out there.
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