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Old 15-11-2016, 14:10   #91
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Re: What is the cheapest to maintain sub 30 feet powerboat?

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Originally Posted by BoxHome View Post
Unfortunately we're definitely not interested in a houseboat. The reason that I'm planning to mostly not move the boat is that I want to slowly easy in learning how to pilot it. Eventually we'd definitely want to sail the coast, and one of the major aspects of owning a boat is that you have your house which you can move to different places. We also want to minimize size because of cheaper slips and we are in love with small compact living spaces, leaving a small footprint.

My wife is against a houseboat too. But thank you for the idea.
This changes things a lot. Wanting a boat that is seaworthy enough to cruise the coast is now the most important parameter. Coupling that with your limited budget & I believe you'll have many more safe affordable options if you concentrate on the used sailboat market up to around 36'. I'm not sure how many sailboats you've been on but a sailboat under 40' is a pretty small space. Here's a link to a thread started by Steady Hand that has a lot of boats that you should consider. I'd worry more about quality & condition than size.

Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds - Page 20 - Cruisers & Sailing Forums
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Old 15-11-2016, 14:25   #92
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Re: What is the cheapest to maintain sub 30 feet powerboat?

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Originally Posted by liveaboard60 View Post
If I toss a coin up, it is safe to assume it will land 50% of the time on heads, and 50% of the time on tails..

If at a given marina, 100% of the derelict boats are owned by those just living on the cheap, it is reasonable to assume when someone asks what is the cheapest type of boat on which to live, it is reasonable to make the assumption I did..

flk k
THIS WILL DISTURB YOU, sorry about that. But, they will almost certainly be buying the best Catalina 27 available with a view to extended travel.
They are a particularly proud couple niether of whom drink, smoke or do drugs...!!!
How do you like them apples Grumpy?
Send me a pm and I'll put in touch with some professional help....at my expence.
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Old 15-11-2016, 15:02   #93
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Re: What is the cheapest to maintain sub 30 feet powerboat?

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THIS WILL DISTURB YOU, sorry about that. But, they will almost certainly be buying the best Catalina 27 available with a view to extended travel.
They are a particularly proud couple niether of whom drink, smoke or do drugs...!!!
How do you like them apples Grumpy?
Send me a pm and I'll put in touch with some professional help....at my expence.
Why thank you so much for the offer to pay for some professional help, but I am generally a well balanced non-drug user who almost never has more then 2 beers on the rare occasions I do drink, so for now I will pass on the offer..

Talk about assumptions.. When I was looking for a boat, I passed on several boats in serious need of repair.. These derelict boats were not owned by (as far as I could tell), drinkers or those who use drugs..

One boat in particular, held together with a lot of "baling wire and chewing gum" (to coin a term) was about the nicest couple I have ever met.. The only reason they were selling their boat (at top market price) was so they could hitch hike across the U.S. for the limited time the wife had left - terminal brain tumor (they said).. I really wanted to help the young couple, but the boat was too far gone..

Alternatively I do know a people who are drinkers and have a very nice well maintained boats.. And while I don't know of any personally, I am sure there are plenty of drug users who also have well maintained boats..

Since you are vouching for the couple, I assume they will maintain their boat in a manner consistent with good seamanship.. That is great.. I applaud them.. From my (limited experience I admit) they do seem to be the exception though.. flk ar
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Old 15-11-2016, 15:20   #94
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Re: What is the cheapest to maintain sub 30 feet powerboat?

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Why thank you so much for the offer to pay for some professional help, but I am generally a well balanced non-drug user who almost never has more then 2 beers on the rare occasions I do drink, so for now I will pass on the offer..

Talk about assumptions.. When I was looking for a boat, I passed on several boats in serious need of repair.. These derelict boats were not owned by (as far as I could tell), drinkers or those who use drugs..

One boat in particular, held together with a lot of "baling wire and chewing gum" (to coin a term) was about the nicest couple I have ever met.. The only reason they were selling their boat (at top market price) was so they could hitch hike across the U.S. for the limited time the wife had left - terminal brain tumor (they said).. I really wanted to help the young couple, but the boat was too far gone..

Alternatively I do know a people who are drinkers and have a very nice well maintained boats.. And while I don't know of any personally, I am sure there are plenty of drug users who also have well maintained boats..

Since you are vouching for the couple, I assume they will maintain their boat in a manner consistent with good seamanship.. That is great.. I applaud them.. From my (limited experience I admit) they do seem to be the exception though.. flk ar
These are fine people LB60 and, coming from a quite refined part of the Europe prior to living in Singapore (and if you'd spent time in Singapore you'd know that absolutely no social improprieties are tolerated) , it is almost certain that they will make exemplary US residents often setting new standards for others.
LB60, your open mindedness is to be applauded and I/they thank you.
And don't think that I don't know where you're coming from because, unfortunately at times for me, I'm probably the straightest man on the planet. Same at age 25 as today at age 70.
Cheers Mate.
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Old 15-11-2016, 15:20   #95
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Re: What is the cheapest to maintain sub 30 feet powerboat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by liveaboard60 View Post
If I toss a coin up, it is safe to assume it will land 50% of the time on heads, and 50% of the time on tails..

If at a given marina, 100% of the derelict boats are owned by those just living on the cheap, it is reasonable to assume when someone asks what is the cheapest type of boat on which to live, it is reasonable to make the assumption I did..

flk k
I guess in your book, guilty until proven innocent.

In my career I've encountered plenty of boats owned by people that were well off but just let the boat go due to lack of interest. I would opine that attitude makes a lot more difference than finances.
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Old 15-11-2016, 16:20   #96
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Re: What is the cheapest to maintain sub 30 feet powerboat?

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I guess in your book, guilty until proven innocent.

In my career I've encountered plenty of boats owned by people that were well off but just let the boat go due to lack of interest. I would opine that attitude makes a lot more difference than finances.
Oh yes.. I agree with you completely in regards to folks with the means not taking care of their boats.. Having money does not equate to taking care of things..

However as far as being guilty until proven innocent, if my kid came up to me with chocolate cookies on my face, I don't have to have a trail to know who got into the cookies..

I have been informed the couple is indeed not of the caliber of folks who have the derelict boats so I am pleased.. No need to keep this part of the thread going..

flk ar
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Old 15-11-2016, 16:25   #97
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Re: What is the cheapest to maintain sub 30 feet powerboat?

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Originally Posted by liveaboard60 View Post
Oh yes.. I agree with you completely in regards to folks with the means not taking care of their boats.. Having money does not equate to taking care of things..

However as far as being guilty until proven innocent, if my kid came up to me with chocolate cookies on my face, I don't have to have a trail to know who got into the cookies..

I have been informed the couple is indeed not of the caliber of folks who have the derelict boats so I am pleased.. No need to keep this part of the thread going..

flk ar
Nice.
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Old 15-11-2016, 16:52   #98
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Re: What is the cheapest to maintain sub 30 feet powerboat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by liveaboard60 View Post
If I toss a coin up, it is safe to assume it will land 50% of the time on heads, and 50% of the time on tails..

If at a given marina, 100% of the derelict boats are owned by those just living on the cheap, it is reasonable to assume when someone asks what is the cheapest type of boat on which to live, it is reasonable to make the assumption I did..

flk k
OK I see the issue now . You didn't actually read the title of this thread.
The title says
What is the cheapest to maintain sub 30 feet powerboat
Not what is the cheapest to live on
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Old 15-11-2016, 17:29   #99
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Re: What is the cheapest to maintain sub 30 feet powerboat?

And now, back to our regularly scheduled programming...

to the OP:

Living LEGALLY in a liveaboard slip in a marina in SF is

a. very difficult to find
b. almost impossible to find
c. will almost likely, if you do find one, be at the opposite end of the Bay from where you work
d. require a minimum boat size (when I left Grand Marina on the estuary in August, they had just moved the size UP from 36 to 40 feet, pissing off a LOT of folks who were on the waiting list)
e. there are a LOT of people ahead of you on any of the wait lists
f. all of the above

Taking a page from Steady Hand, do a search on

SNEAKABOARDS - not legal, bad practice, legit liveaboards will spot you a mile away

BCDC - in addition to Steady Hands' link to Richardson Bay and its particular issues, this is the agency that controls liveaboard slip quantities. They are so very unfriendly to boaters, they once wanted to call boats BAY FILL so they could regulate the hell out of them and essentially remove recreational boats from SF Bay. They remain pretty impossible.

Summary: people who have a lot more boat smarts than you do still can't get a slip to liveaboard. I suggest you carefully reconsider your plans. Hate to throw cold water on ya, but sometime reality strikes. If you really want to learn to sail, and eventually go out the Gate, try sailing schools, other peoples' boats (OPB), or buy a small boat and learn to sail up in The Delta during the summer where it's nice and warm. You want small? A small apartment is about all anyone who doesn't work for a tech company can afford these days anyway.

I lived in SF from 1978 to August this year. I know the area.

Please, I'm just suggesting you be realistic. Some folks may be able to pull it off, but I'm sure the odds are more like 1,000,000:1.

Good luck anyway. Beautiful place to live, work and play.
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Old 15-11-2016, 20:52   #100
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Re: What is the cheapest to maintain sub 30 feet powerboat?

@liveaboard60 Just to soothe your worries. We are looking to minimize expenses so we can live a clean, healthy and luxurious life in a small space.

I love taking care of the area where I live, but most apartments that I've lived in, are so large you need days per week to keep them absolutely clean and pristine.

We do originally come from a very disorderly and unclean country where people just don't give a second thought about their environment and where they live. This is why (among other reasons) we bolted out of that country as fast as possible. If people don't care about the space they live in, it's going to influence their health, the people they interact with, and the local social environment.

I understand where the presumption is coming from, and it has its valid points, but in terms of cleanliness, we're more fans of the Japanese than anything else.

I'd rather live extremely cheap and invest the surplus money for boat maintenance, interior repairs and aesthetic changes than drop 3000 usd every month on an apartment that I can't change, I can't optimize, I mustn't repair myself and which does not belong to me.

My wife is a world renown graphic designer and I've taken a lot from her in terms of minimalism. If anything, we will contribute to the area we live in.

To address people advising me to use the search function. This is good advise and I've thanked most people that gave it to me. I might've mistook the size of the content of the forum and that's why I didn't think to search for such a specific question as the one in the title.

Even though I made a mistake, the reaction of this community has been so positive, I've never run into a forum with such good intentions. Even when it sounds harsh, the intentions are good, and that's important to me.

We are now dead set on getting a sailboat, which will absolutely not be a derelict. If it is, then we will simply save more money and buy a better one
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Old 15-11-2016, 20:56   #101
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Re: What is the cheapest to maintain sub 30 feet powerboat?

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This changes things a lot. Wanting a boat that is seaworthy enough to cruise the coast is now the most important parameter. Coupling that with your limited budget & I believe you'll have many more safe affordable options if you concentrate on the used sailboat market up to around 36'. I'm not sure how many sailboats you've been on but a sailboat under 40' is a pretty small space. Here's a link to a thread started by Steady Hand that has a lot of boats that you should consider. I'd worry more about quality & condition than size.

Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds - Page 20 - Cruisers & Sailing Forums
I was on a Japanese liveaboard sailboat of 33 feet just recently. It was way to big for us.

I've lived in a cabin that is about 3 times smaller than that And I loved it. I lived there together with a coworker. We've also lived short whiles in capsule hotels in Tokyo, and a bit bigger capsule hotels (not just a pod) in Japan. It was delightful. You could take care of every single aspect of your living environment. I loved that. I want that from my boat. That's why we are looking into 26 feet sailboats.

Cruises along the coast would be relatively minimal at first, until I learn to pilot it well and we've gotten used to the liveboard lifestyle. Later on this will probably change

We intend to get someone to check it for damage and give us advise before going for it. Thank you for the list!
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Old 16-11-2016, 05:07   #102
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Re: What is the cheapest to maintain sub 30 feet powerboat?

Even if you want to go tiny, many marinas have a minimum size requirement. You need of course to find out if that's true, and what it is and obviously buy a boat that meets that requirement
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Old 16-11-2016, 05:57   #103
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Re: What is the cheapest to maintain sub 30 feet powerboat?

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Even if you want to go tiny, many marinas have a minimum size requirement. You need of course to find out if that's true, and what it is and obviously buy a boat that meets that requirement
Yup, user Stu Jackson mentioned that and I've read about that in different places and Quora. I'd still prefer a smaller boat. For maintenance, for coziness, etc.

By smaller I mean around 26 feet instead of >30 feet

I wouldn't want to get a large ship just because there's a requirement in the marina. That beats my entire purpose of being compact.

Definitely need to take good care of that aspect and research well before anything.
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Old 16-11-2016, 06:31   #104
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Re: What is the cheapest to maintain sub 30 feet powerboat?

What is the purpose of being compact?
If its to save money, I don't think it will save much as long as we are not talking the difference between 26 and 40 ft anyway.
If its environmental impact I'd argue either way your recycling a boat, not buying new, and energy costs ought to be the same, maybe less on a slightly larger boat as you can prepare food much better, and have a way to store food too.
26 ft boats are not meant to be lived on, weren't designed to, so they often are not as livable as slightly larger boats. They likely won't have running water, no water heater, maybe not holding tanks, and if they do, likely too small, the Galley really isn't, no stove etc, no refrigeration to keep food. More of course, just what immediately comes to mind. Living in a 26' boat would I think be like living in a tent, if anchored out, then a tent in the woods.

When we were looking I found a 32' boat that I really liked, had everything I thought we needed and nothing more, wife was thinking having the kids aboard and wanted more space, but the 32 was a "real" cruising boat I thought, meaning it had all the desirable systems of a larger boat, just not all the extra space.

I think your budget of $1,000 a month will take a sound hull boat and make it into a very nice boat in short order, boats that don't move much take little maintenance, of course initially you will be over whelmed as most likely the boat will need work, but with a grand a month to spend if your doing all the work yourself, pretty soon you will be polishing things as all the real work is done.


Now the difference between living on the hook and having a job as opposed to living in a Marina and having a job is astronomical, I would not even consider it, and if I were determined to do it, then I'd definitely start by living in a Marina until I ironed out all the problems and then move out and anchor out. Plus I think you would have to have a boss that's OK with you not coming to work several days at a time, cause the weather is just too bad to get ashore.
Anchored out, you have to have two boats, the one you live on of course and a safe, very seaworthy tender, cause you have to get to work, you can't always wait a few days until the weather is nice, and you don't want to drown you or your wife.
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Old 16-11-2016, 06:47   #105
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Re: What is the cheapest to maintain sub 30 feet powerboat?

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What is the purpose of being compact?
.
I'm still trying to wrap my head around this. We get it that you can live in a small space but why the intense drive to go smaller? So far you haven't articulated why you want to go smaller other than you can.

Also, I've stayed in a pod hotel before and it would be huge compared to the cabin on typical 25-27' monohull.

More importantly, if you actually want to take the boat out and cruise, size is not only about the interior living space. A larger boat will be faster and more comfortable in rough conditions and all things being equal more seaworthy.

So to reiterate a64pilot's question: Why are you so focused on the smallest boat possible?
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