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Old 26-02-2019, 04:44   #31
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Re: What does it take to become a liveaboard cruiser?

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Puddleduck
I work for a company that trains and mentors, etc. PM me for.more.info and not just about my employer.

Visit the site: havewindwilltravel.com as she, Annie Dike, has some interesting offerings.
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Old 26-02-2019, 08:49   #32
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Re: What does it take to become a liveaboard cruiser?

I've lived many years where water freezes up inside the living space. Not at all life-threatening, just a PITA compared to first-world expectations.

wrt your past DIY experience being helpful, true enough, but do not underestimate the domain-specific learning curves. Diesel engines, fiberglassing, DC electrics, each can take hundreds if not thousands of hours to get truly expert. Not meant to be discouraging at all, you learn as you go, but for many things make sure you budget in hiring a pro (that will also teach you) unless time is no issue.

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itís expensive to have it laying around till we need it. The plan is to buy something Ďusableí at the start of the UK sailing season, sail it over the summer close to home and for a couple of extended trips
Another important skillset is searching out bargains and buying low.

But the survey/inspection part is not a noobie skill.

My point is, you can start now, goal is a "temporary boat" to just get hands-on learning, not to spend money on fixing up.

Keep looking for the next "upgrade", be ready to sell off the old one or even dispose of it if that's appropriate.

May be a much cheaper way to actually get started on The Dream rather than delaying, paying charters, courses, planning, looking for "the right boat", work your way into it more quickly with "good enough for this summer".

You'll be amazed how many decent super - cheap almost-free boats there are out there, owner just wants to avoid paying further ongoing costs.

If your situation allows for storing a boat free or cheap on a trailer, that helps a lot with those.
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Old 26-02-2019, 08:59   #33
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Re: What does it take to become a liveaboard cruiser?

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...Understand the need to get out there and get experience itís just not the easiest thing to do to get meaningful experience, especially when the whole family needs to be involved!
No, itís not easy. Thatís part of the point many posters here are making. There are many other easier ways to live and explore ó like in a caravan (which I think means camper van for us in the colonies ).

There is no one way to do this life. Sounds like youíve got excellent experience living in small spaces, and being self-sufficient. Those are needed skillsets for cruising. So good .

It sounds like youíve got the finances sorted out. And I assume both you and your wife are on board with the plan.

It sounds like youíve got a lot of the needed maintenance skills.

It sounds like you already know what boat you think you want, and where you want to go first.

SoÖ whatís the hold up? Get a boat and go.

Most ó but not all ó cruisers learn what they really need and want through actual experience. And thereís no real short cut to that. This is why I recommend buying an inexpensive, yet fully functional and sound cruising-level boat first to gain that experience. And by this I mean an older 28 to 32 foot monohull. At least over here these are relatively cheap, and easy to find.

But the other approach is to buy THE BOAT now, and go. Sounds like youíre in a position to do this, so why not go for it? This will definitely give you the experience you need.
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Old 26-02-2019, 09:15   #34
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Re: What does it take to become a liveaboard cruiser?

.. you can build up a lot of skills when re-fitting the vessel to your needs, so take your time after buying and having a shake down cruise, look for a cheap marina to haul out and do the maintenance and refit necessary to live-aboard. You'll learn a lot on the dock.

No vessel is perfect to your needs when you buy used anyway.
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Old 26-02-2019, 10:04   #35
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Re: What does it take to become a liveaboard cruiser?

[QUOTE=john61ct;2834554 your past DIY experience being helpful, true enough, but do not underestimate the domain-specific learning curves. Diesel engines, fiberglassing, DC electrics, each can take hundreds if not thousands of hours to get truly expert. Not meant to be discouraging at all, you learn as you go, but for many things make sure you budget in hiring a pro (that will also teach you) unless time is no issue. [/QUOTE]

My wife thinks Iím a bit sad as Iíve already got Nigel calders mechanical and electrical manual and brion tosses riggers apprentice but donít have a boat yet! I donít think for a minute think Iíll know what Iím doing but hopefully it helps me to hit the ground running (or water swimming) and I enjoy learning new stuff....for the moment
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Old 26-02-2019, 10:16   #36
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Re: What does it take to become a liveaboard cruiser?

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SoÖ whatís the hold up? Get a boat and go.
1. Iím a bit scared

2. Brexit. Might sound like a bit of a cop out but this might significantly change our cruising plans and logistics. Also potentially has implications on buying a boat in my local market and possible VAT issues latter. Itís all an unknown right now
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Old 26-02-2019, 10:29   #37
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Re: What does it take to become a liveaboard cruiser?

Brexit should not be an issue at all for you. The british passport is well accepted all over the world. There are so many foreigners in the Med than surf the visa and VAT regulations, so nothing that really would stop you living your dream.

Britain will prosper once they leave the EU weght, taxes and regulations behind, the World is larger than the EU anyway.

I would not bet too much on the EU and Euro either.

YOLO.
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Old 26-02-2019, 10:49   #38
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Re: What does it take to become a liveaboard cruiser?

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It sounds like you already know what boat you think you want, and where you want to go first.

..

But the other approach is to buy THE BOAT now, and go. Sounds like youíre in a position to do this, so why not go for it?
Because they likely will form different opinions about what "The boat" for them is, after they've been out actually sailing and getting adjusted to the liveaboard life for X weeks / months, over a year or two.

Unless truly wealthy, the real value for money will come from at least somewhat a fixer upper, and that process can in itself get in the way of actually getting out living on the water.

So quite likely IMO beginning with a quick & dirty starter boat, planning to wait before starting The Boat search and fix project, will end up a better result in the end.

Especially if after those initial voyages, they find they'd actually prefer to live on land and coastal-sail just a few weeks at a time,

which would likely change The Boat candidates.

Not saying that's the only way, just devil's advocate, food for thought.
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Old 26-02-2019, 10:54   #39
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Re: What does it take to become a liveaboard cruiser?

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Most ó but not all ó cruisers learn what they really need and want through actual experience. And thereís no real short cut to that. This is why I recommend buying an inexpensive, yet fully functional and sound cruising-level boat first to gain that experience. And by this I mean an older 28 to 32 foot monohull. At least over here these are relatively cheap, and easy to find.
Iíve heard and read this a lot, I just find it difficult to understand.

There seems to be a good selection of cheap ish boats nearby I could use to get experience on...they might even be suitable to more long term cruising plans. But once Iíve paid for a survey, serviced and upgraded a few bits and bobs Iíll have eaten a large chunk of my refit budget for our next boat. And as thereís a large choice of cheap 28-32í boats around me Iím worried it wonít be that easy to sell on quickly unless I take a big hit on resale price.

Alternatively getting THE BOAT first, providing itís a solid, reliable well proven boat near the end of its depreciation, Iíd imagine would be easier to sell on if things donít go to plan (mainly as there are less available/harder to find and probably a bigger market proportionally). Iíll be honest though, I havenít had a proper serious hunt around for a cheapo boat yet!
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Old 26-02-2019, 11:04   #40
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Re: What does it take to become a liveaboard cruiser?

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Because they likely will form different opinions about what "The boat" for them is, after they've been out actually sailing and getting adjusted to the liveaboard life for X weeks / months, over a year or two.

Unless truly wealthy, the real value for money will come from at least somewhat a fixer upper, and that process can in itself get in the way of actually getting out living on the water.

So quite likely IMO beginning with a quick & dirty starter boat, planning to wait before starting The Boat search and fix project, will end up a better result in the end.

Especially if after those initial voyages, they find they'd actually prefer to live on land and coastal-sail just a few weeks at a time,

which would likely change The Boat candidates.

Not saying that's the only way, just devil's advocate, food for thought.
Ah ok, I see where youíre coming from.
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Old 26-02-2019, 11:05   #41
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Re: What does it take to become a liveaboard cruiser?

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Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
Because they likely will form different opinions about what "The boat" for them is, after they've been out actually sailing and getting adjusted to the liveaboard life for X weeks / months, over a year or two.

Unless truly wealthy, the real value for money will come from at least somewhat a fixer upper, and that process can in itself get in the way of actually getting out living on the water.

So quite likely IMO beginning with a quick & dirty starter boat, planning to wait before starting The Boat search and fix project, will end up a better result in the end.

Especially if after those initial voyages, they find they'd actually prefer to live on land and coastal-sail just a few weeks at a time,

which would likely change The Boat candidates.

Not saying that's the only way, just devil's advocate, food for thought.
Ah ok, I see where youíre coming from.
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Old 26-02-2019, 11:23   #42
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Re: What does it take to become a liveaboard cruiser?

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Brexit should not be an issue at all for you. The british passport is well accepted all over the world. There are so many foreigners in the Med than surf the visa and VAT regulations, so nothing that really would stop you living your dream.

Britain will prosper once they leave the EU weght, taxes and regulations behind, the World is larger than the EU anyway.

I would not bet too much on the EU and Euro either.

YOLO.
But Iíve already planned 90 days sailing in French Polynesia, not 30!!!

Seriously though, I probably need to read up and understand med visa and vat regs and the Ďweavesí better. If I made it to the med on a uk vat paid boat via French canals, how far is the nearest place to leave the boat indefinitely without penalty or issue and be able to sell if needed, and how long could we stay for?...Gibraltar?
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Old 26-02-2019, 12:32   #43
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Re: What does it take to become a liveaboard cruiser?

You will be reduced to 90 days in FP *if* Brexit goes ahead..... currently you can on a UK passport stay forever and your boat gets 2 years. They tell me Irish passports are much in demand these days.

I would not buy a 'fixer upper' or a 'project boat'.... the very best boat you can find will still be an 'improver'...

This blog which covers a 10 year ( well ... almost 10 years ) circumnavigation is worth a read https://yachtcamomile.co.uk/2009/04/

OK so its a sistership to mine..... a little bit of bias is no bad thing. Sealords are getting a bit old now and are rather rare on the 2nd hand market.... but you can find 90's built Oceanlords for around a UKP60,000 asking price.

Brexit will be wonderful.... you will be welcomed once again with open arms throughout the Empire.... just like the good old days..
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Old 26-02-2019, 12:42   #44
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Re: What does it take to become a liveaboard cruiser?

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Originally Posted by Puddleduck View Post
Iíve heard and read this a lot, I just find it difficult to understand.



There seems to be a good selection of cheap ish boats nearby I could use to get experience on...they might even be suitable to more long term cruising plans. But once Iíve paid for a survey, serviced and upgraded a few bits and bobs Iíll have eaten a large chunk of my refit budget for our next boat. And as thereís a large choice of cheap 28-32í boats around me Iím worried it wonít be that easy to sell on quickly unless I take a big hit on resale price.



Alternatively getting THE BOAT first, providing itís a solid, reliable well proven boat near the end of its depreciation, Iíd imagine would be easier to sell on if things donít go to plan (mainly as there are less available/harder to find and probably a bigger market proportionally). Iíll be honest though, I havenít had a proper serious hunt around for a cheapo boat yet!
My strong opinion is do not factor whatever you **might** get on resale into your calculations.

Especially older smaller mono's, likely a small fraction of overall costs.

That's why I say in the interest of get out there asap, don't spend more than you'd be willing to allocate to charters or "liveaboard schools" etc, be willing to write off 100% after a year or two.

Maybe you get 3-4!
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Old 26-02-2019, 16:45   #45
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Re: What does it take to become a liveaboard cruiser?

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Iíve heard and read this a lot, I just find it difficult to understand.
The simple wisdom I and others are telling you is that it is hard to know what THE BOAT should be without gaining actual experience living and cruising with a boat. There is no short cuts to experience, and itís going to cost you money. Thatís a fact of this life.

As I said, some people are able to know what they need and want right off the bat. Some people buy THE BOAT first time out. But most of us find that cruising teaches wonderful lessons about what is actually important vs what we think is important. And this translates into what THE BOAT actually needs to be.

Until youíve logged in serious time and miles, and done it with your family, you will likely continue to not know what you donít know. I think itís better to do this on an inexpensive boat (a well found cruising boat), than to risk buying what you think is THE BOAT, only to find out it really wasnít.

But thereís no right or wrong way to do this. In the end you have to do what you think is right.
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