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Old 26-06-2020, 01:54   #16
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Re: We hate V berth , howto convert?

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Originally Posted by mvweebles View Post
I went the other direction. We have owned our 1970 Willard 36 trawler for over 22 years. It had the head forward in forepeak and a smallish double Pullman bunk to starboard meaning one person had to crawl over the other for the inevitable nocturnal pee run. As part of a larger refit - and with access to inexpensive skilled labor in Mexico, decided to flip the layout and go with a vee berth and move the head aft to where the double bunk was. As you can see by the pic, it's underway as I write. Being a trawler, even a small one, has a much fuller bow than a sailboat so the vee berth is more or less two good sized single bunks of 28 inches wide and 6'6" long. Total cost is in the $10k range in Mexico. An island berth was not practical given available space. Having done these types of modifications over the years, larger ones like these usually end up as total gut jobs with bulkheads re-tabbed into the hull, etc. Not for the feint of heart or wallet.

While there is the obvious concern of sleeping distance between us, the many benefits we considered beyond ease of access to the head include there are opening ports above each bunk so better cooling at anchor, we each have a reading nook that is less likely to disturb the other at night, and the layout works better on the rare occasions we have a guest aboard, especially a third crew for longer runs as the vee berth is two single bunks. Storage is an even swap, though did trade some hanging locker space for drawer/cabinet space.

As an observation, I'll echo what others have gently said. OP has put impossible constraints by saying no to CC and must be under 42 feet due to slip size. Perhaps consider a powerboat? 42 feet is the sweet spot for trawlers (grand banks 42 is iconic, as is the 36) and would fulfill your wish list except for the sail part. Heresy, I know, but a common evolution

Peter Attachment 218094
The trawlers are the luxurious style of living but the gas cost sucks.. And the maintenance of these large engines is another story..
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Old 26-06-2020, 01:57   #17
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Re: We hate V berth , howto convert?

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Sorry if repost. I recall seeing a v-birth renovate that didnít seem all that problematic. It would end up something like an offset full-size bed. think the original head suffers from the alteration, however.
I searched all the YouTube videos and the forum but never saw any example for a renovation. Maybe everybody is happy with their V berth , I don't know..
Now I hate the city life but love our 200x200 bed
There must be someone who made this conversion ?
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Old 26-06-2020, 03:21   #18
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Re: We hate V berth , howto convert?

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The trawlers are the luxurious style of living but the gas cost sucks.. And the maintenance of these large engines is another story..
Can be true on both counts, but really depends - more myth than truth. My Willard 36 has a Perkins 4.236, the same engine installed in many 45+ foot sailboats of the same era. She carries close to 500 gallons of diesel giving her about 2500 nms of range; and she's stabilized so it is indeed quite comfortable: Many years ago, a sistership went from LA to Hawaii and burned 330 gallons of diesel at just over 6-kts. Last year, I took my boat from San Francisco to Ensenada 500 nms non-stop in about 75-hours (around 6.5kts) and burned around 80 gallons of diesel. Given these boats can be acquired for around $100k, (no affiliation to the linked boat, just pulled off YW) not a bad option for many who define cruising without direct-connection to sailing, and at a lower price-point than a Jeanneau (though admittedly, quite a bit older). My point being to gently break some power-boat stereotypes - there are some amazing options without having a 60-foot stick.

Yes, powerboats can be expensive. I have a friend with a 52-foot powercat with twin Cummin's of around 400 hp each and burn over 40gph at 20-kts. At 8-kts, he burns around 7 gph. Speed is the problem, not the engine.

There are several examples of people who were full-time sail cruisers then switched to power and continued to cruise. They routinely report the costs of operating a sailboat vs a powerboat long term is about the same. I would agree that if budget is totally squeezed to bare minimums, easier to find a happy place on a sailboat, but for the average cruiser, long term costs appear to be the same. Larger, slow-turning diesels easily go 10k hours between major overhauls. In that same 10k hours underway, sailboats routinely need 2-3 sets of sails, plus re-rigging. And still have a couple thousand engine hours too.

To each their own. I sometimes miss sailing. Not too often, but sometimes. Mostly, I miss being on the water.

Peter
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Old 26-06-2020, 03:53   #19
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Re: We hate V berth , howto convert?

Simply filling in the V berth creates hasles as you get older.

The more often Pee requirements make crawling off the bottom of the bed less inviting , for you and your partner.
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Old 26-06-2020, 04:16   #20
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Re: We hate V berth , howto convert?

Look at the Kadey-Krogen 38, not the pilothouse version on Yachtworld
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Old 26-06-2020, 04:56   #21
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Re: We hate V berth , howto convert?

Many newer models have that "island" berth in the vee, but what I see with these, especialy in the size range you are talking about, is that it's not really a true island but the aft corners are tapered back to create a little step. What this does is eliminate any sort of storage/lockers that would typically butt up against that area. The forward end of these "island" berths is usually cramped with little room for two people's heads and shoulders. I would prefer the more traditional vee, as the cabinets/lockers at these corners allow something solid to lean your pillows against to read at night (assuming you sleep with your head facing aft).
The Tartan 4100 has a very large vee berth and my wife and I sleep up there in the summer at anchor as the ventilation with two overhead hatches is quite good. We sleep in the queen sized aft cabin in the winter and while underway. The aft cabin is low to the floor and easy to get in and out while the vee is elevated but does have handy steps to easy entry. I've had this boat for several years now and the only major drawback that I see with the design is the tankage is moderate (100 gallons water, 50 diesel) but this can be overcome with a watermaker and Gerry cans.
This boat is a performance cruiser so if you care about the way a boat sails, might be worth a look! She sails like a witch!(I'm not partial am I????)
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Old 26-06-2020, 05:08   #22
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Re: We hate V berth , howto convert?

If you want a mono capped around 40ft, you should be comparing to cats in the mid 30ft range...a lot of those will fit in a standard slip (assuming mooring is really the primary concern).
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Old 26-06-2020, 05:28   #23
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Re: We hate V berth , howto convert?

Another thing to keep in mind - often the v-berth is part of the structural strengthening of the bow of the boat. Look carefully at the construction before tearing it out recklessly.
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Old 26-06-2020, 05:50   #24
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Re: We hate V berth , howto convert?

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Another thing to keep in mind - often the v-berth is part of the structural strengthening of the bow of the boat. Look carefully at the construction before tearing it out recklessly.
Rather than tearing the cabin I was planning to assembly a sliding shelf with opening legs which you can extend the berth as much as you can.. You have some space to the door and the cupboards which depends on the model.. But you have 75cm at least and if you calculate the bottom side of the V berth like 140 cm and the upper side 180 cm , you can easily reach a rectangular shape with the space left.
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Old 26-06-2020, 05:51   #25
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Re: We hate V berth , howto convert?

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Originally Posted by Tortuga's Lie View Post
Many newer models have that "island" berth in the vee, but what I see with these, especialy in the size range you are talking about, is that it's not really a true island but the aft corners are tapered back to create a little step. What this does is eliminate any sort of storage/lockers that would typically butt up against that area. The forward end of these "island" berths is usually cramped with little room for two people's heads and shoulders. I would prefer the more traditional vee, as the cabinets/lockers at these corners allow something solid to lean your pillows against to read at night (assuming you sleep with your head facing aft).
The Tartan 4100 has a very large vee berth and my wife and I sleep up there in the summer at anchor as the ventilation with two overhead hatches is quite good. We sleep in the queen sized aft cabin in the winter and while underway. The aft cabin is low to the floor and easy to get in and out while the vee is elevated but does have handy steps to easy entry. I've had this boat for several years now and the only major drawback that I see with the design is the tankage is moderate (100 gallons water, 50 diesel) but this can be overcome with a watermaker and Gerry cans.
This boat is a performance cruiser so if you care about the way a boat sails, might be worth a look! She sails like a witch!(I'm not partial am I????)
Tartan is a nice boat I know but out of my budget.
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Old 26-06-2020, 06:17   #26
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Re: We hate V berth , howto convert?

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We don't want to go for an old boat like this one which I would love but I am sure it is a trouble maker every day
Interesting perspective. As an ex delivery skipper who delivered primarily new or nearly new trawler yachts (Nordhavn, Selene, etc.) I do not necessarily agree. I fully understand styles change - especially in sailboats that now have cavernous interiors. Or certain attributes come and go (teak decks for example), but service issues are not really reduced on newer boats compared to a well-cared for example of a similar but older boat. As an [extreme] example, commercial aircraft are often 20-30 years old but have been upgraded and refit over the years so operate as-new, perhaps better than new (thinking the venerable 737 fleet vs crash-prone and new 737 Super Max).

Hard part of buying an older boat is it often comes with years of DIY or budget-based changes, often easily seen in the electrical systems and wiring. But there are ultra-clean boats that had knowledgeable and well-healed owners. If you decide to convert a Vee Berth into something else, you will have to be careful about making the change to ensure it's done to commensurate quality as the rest of the yacht or you will be at risk of value-destruction which could more than offset the reduced slip fees from avoiding a larger boat with an island berth.

Peter
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Old 26-06-2020, 06:48   #27
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Re: We hate V berth , howto convert?

Where are your sailing grounds? I thought of you when reading the cheap multihull thread. There is a comanche32 catamaran that would fit in a slip. Is an older boat and you can probably drive the price down another $5K. The boat I think is in the NE
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Old 26-06-2020, 06:50   #28
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Re: We hate V berth , howto convert?

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Where are your sailing grounds? I thought of you when reading the cheap multihull thread. There is a comanche32 catamaran that would fit in a slip. Is an older boat and you can probably drive the price down another $5K. The boat I think is in the NE
We don't want buy anything older than 2013. So most of the boats are out of our interest.
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Old 26-06-2020, 10:03   #29
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Re: We hate V berth , howto convert?

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What a nice boat!!!!!
If it was not that old I would definitely go for it..
We don't want to go for an old boat like this one which I would love but I am sure it is a trouble maker every day
Be aware that most people use the V berth as a glorified sail locker - this is not a place you want to set up for live aboard purposes as it's the last place you'll be sleeping while under way. On the hook, in a calm anchorage, maybe okay but you'd be better served with an aft cabin found in the center cockpit boats which are very common in the 38' to 40' range. You should get a boat that the SWMBO likes to avoid the trouble - even newer boats will still require some daily tuning.
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Old 26-06-2020, 14:10   #30
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Re: We hate V berth , howto convert?

I think a center cockpit might be in your future
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