WE, are not slaves.

[captain58sailin]

The same is true of North America, when the Europeans came to North America they introduced the concept of "ownership" of land. My ancestors thought that was an absurd concept and could not comprehend it. So they were wiped out to prove the point, history is written by the victors. Indeed, soon money will no longer have value; I will give you 50 cents for every dollar you have so that you can beat the rush before your currency becomes valueless.

[Mike OReilly]

“No one is more a slave than the one who thinks he is free without being it.”
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;"
William Butler Yeats

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

The same is true of North America, when the Europeans came to North America they introduced the concept of "ownership" of land. My ancestors thought that was an absurd concept and could not comprehend it. So they were wiped out to prove the point, history is written by the victors. Indeed, soon money will no longer have value; I will give you 50 cents for every dollar you have so that you can beat the rush before your currency becomes valueless.

I have read somewhere that when the white man came to this land that the Indians didnt pay taxes ,the woman did all the work and the white man thought that he could improve on this concept...

[scoobert]

you can anchor in many country's, USA is not the only one.
and if the area is not policed, you can do as you wish, (guano islands).
off shore fishing needs no license.

yes, you can eat without buying food. shocker there i know, but not all food comes from McD.

you dont need a car or mass transit. frig. have you ever been to Amish country?
they have these things with two wheels, called bikes.

and yes, low maintenance boat. They have to be built, not bought.
the 65' steel cat i was going to build, and may still build, if the country has a way i can still earn money.
no below the water thru hulls, thick steel below the waterline, solar power (25-30 year lifespan) wind power (40+ years) on board small scale hydroponic farming, the cost to build is about $250,000 if built in USA.
the upkeep is epoxy paint, antifoul, MISC junk.

this low upkeep cost boat must be steel!
it must be a cat.
it must not be sail.
primary propulsion needs to be electric, with diesel backup.
i know, where do you get the diesel ECT, the hope is it would be needed so rarely, that 500 gallons would last years if not decades.

[atoll]

just bend over and take it like a man.............

you gotta,drink the koolaid,and take a valium like a normal person.

belive me you gotta long way to go before you can become a"freedom chick " on a boat,

don't give up the day job.....they got you by the "short and curleys" boy

[captain58sailin]

There was a division of labor, the men went, hunting and fishing all day, and the women hoed the corn, beat the children etc... there was no guilt associated with sex, yet there was a moral code.

[Kenomac]

"Waterworld"

Scoobert my friend, what are you complaining about? My yearly property tax has gone up from $2500 twelve years ago up to $14,000 today with no end in sight. I don't have kids in the school system, the police don't seem able to stop the crime and break-ins.... but I do get my trash picked up once a week, which is the only return I get on my taxes. Here's a tax you're going to love: I pay $750 per year to have my interior fire sprinkler system hooked up to the city's water main, even though I don't use a single drop of water. Meanwhile, my property value for resale has gone down 40% in the past 6 years.

You're getting off easy.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

When the white man came to my country,we had the land and he had the bible,now we have the bible and he has the land!!

White man not stupid... give you native superstitious folk fairy tale in book so while you learn to read and how to turn other cheek he steal your land...
Notice... Whitey no turn other cheek... he just puts boot in to man on floor...

[scoobert]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

"Waterworld"

Scoobert my friend, what are you complaining about? My property tax has gone up from $2500 twelve years ago up to $14,000 today with no end in sight. I don't have kids in the school system, the police don't seem able to stop the crime and break-ins.... but I do get my trash picked up once a week, which is the only return I get on my taxes. Here's a tax you're going to love: I pay $750 per year to have my interior fire sprinkler system hooked up to the city's water main, even though I don't use a single drop of water. Meanwhile, my property value for resale has gone down 40% in the past 6 years.

You're getting off easy.

except i do not have a house on my land, i have no city services, no kids in school, nor will i ever, i don't care to call the cops, and never will, the fire department here are a bunch of drunks, the town sends me yearly letters to let me know i cannot keep my two RV's on my land, the building inspector is a crook, the roads are shot, might as well be dirt, and many are. so what do i get for the $1500 i dont pay? lol. 6 years of back taxes owed on land, i had a plan, and it has worked. $7,000 in taxes, land worth less then the taxes i owe, so i will not keep it. its that simple. thou i may have my wife buy it at tax auction for $1000-2000 next year :P

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

Huh, must be something worthwhile?

Schools, roads, airports, police, Coast Guard???

PROPERTY taxes do not pay for the CG, airport. Local roads may be partly funded by property tax but not usually. Your income taxes; Fed, State & local pay these.

I agree that there needs to be another way to pay for schools (and other city infrastructure). The typical property owner has little use for schools, no children (or grown). In the case that you send your kids to private school the bill is only while your children attend and for far less than the city charges. Many users of the schools pay no property tax at all - AND - they get vote on the tax you pay. In one previous home location, the local pro-tax group organized busses to empty out the retirement homes in order to 'vote' the seniors in favor of increased millages. They bussed 300 to 500 elderly to the poles where millages passed with only a couple of percentage points. In my opinion, if you don't own land; if you are not on the property tax rolls you should not be elligable to vote someone elses tax.

We inherited lake property in N. Michigan when Mom died. The local tax authority considers it luxury resort property and thus subject to extremely regressive taxation. This is a standard racket where locals can vote tax increases that do not effect the tax rate on their own homes. We do not use any of the schools. The building is not in the city limits by 10 miles. There is no trash removal, snow removal & the road is private (no county maintenance). The house is on well & septic. The property tax is 17,000 per year on a house well-smaller (1700 ft-sq) than our home. The building is utilized less than 3 weeks per year. There is no way anyone can convince me we are getting anything close to that value in return. WE ARE NOT RESIDENTS SO WE CANNOT EVEN VOTE AGAINST OUR TAX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This does not mean I am against school funding - just that everyone needs to have some skin in this game, no matter how small. I suggest a local income tax would more fairly distribute the liability. Higher incomes would still pay more but everyone would pay something proportional to ability. Voters would consider an increase with far greater concern and the school administration would have to make a convincing pitch to increase spending.

[Boatguy30]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

Land is a shared resource amongst a society. How that is shared differs from country to country (and also within). But yeah, no one "owns" it.

Some places favour rationing land by money. rationing by money is still rationing......on property, food, healthcare or whatever.

Over here the property tax (we still have rates!), is around £400 a year, on a 3 bed semi (in US terms would be called a walkin closet in size! - albeit over here a mid range family home) - worth IRO £400k / USD600k (off a bit in recent years)...........European Socialism gone mad!

But likely would be higher if we had an armed forces 12 times the size of sanity........Capitalism gone mad!

On the upside, I don't get to pay for da gubberment to check I am pooping correctly.......sometimes it's really hard to feel free .

Chip in about your GST and income tax. Property tax in the US is a stop cap to cover low income and sales taxes.

Anyone that doesn't favor public education clearly doesn't have a clue about how societies work. In your model, no police, not schools, no public roads, how will there be any economic activity. Might work in Montana, but a white guy won't last a week in New York.

[Boatguy30]

So if you you rent a house (I don't) you shouldn't be able to go to school or vote????

Doesn't your rent pass thru to the landlord who pays the tax?

Seriously you TEA folks need to take some basic Econ classes.

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by scoobert

and no, i don't believe we need schools. not the public funded ones anyway.

Quotes like that are why we need public schools.
Tea party member?

[scoobert]

i think schooling should be funded by parents.
i am a parent, i will fund our childs schooling.
I will school him myself.
why would i send him to free school that will not meet his individual needs?

[Lake-Effect]

Thing is, scoobert... you've reaped the benefits of American society already.

So, some bills make you want to storm off in a huff. pardon me, in a cruising boat. That's Ok too. Just settle up for all the education you've received. roads you've travelled on, fire and police protection you receive, the stable and prosperous country where you apparently made enough to fund a cruiser... and sail off.

You've already eaten the steak, there's no sense complaining about the tab.

In Canada, we're a bit more comfortable with the benefits of cooperative action. Best example - single-payer health care. All Canadians receive a very high standard of health care. We don't have to hang onto crappy jobs because of the benefits. We can travel the country without fear of serious illness or accident bankrupting us. Our doctors don't spend 20% of their time fighting insurance companies. AND - we get all this at a LOWER per-patient cost than in the US. We listen to Americans moaning about Obamacare and we shake our heads.