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Old 21-02-2018, 11:46   #16
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Re: Toilet disinfectant effect on calcification of pipes

What effect will muriatic acid have on the toilet bowl?

I etched the glaze in my home toilet by leaving some heavy duty mineral scale remover in the bowl too long. I don't know what the acid was.
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Old 21-02-2018, 12:10   #17
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Re: Toilet disinfectant effect on calcification of pipes

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Pete, any negatives effects on good ole' Joker? Wifey was using SnoBol the other day and I cautioned her that if she burnt Joker up SHE had to replace him.
Haven't noticed anything odd. The waste hose blocked after the first year we had the boat, so replaced the very old hose and for good measure the Jabsco pump. The overhaul kit is the same price as a new pump so that was an obvious choice.

9 years on we continue with the odd dose of cleaning Duck stuff and if the pump starts to be stiff a splash of baby oil seems to do the trick.

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Old 21-02-2018, 14:32   #18
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Re: Toilet disinfectant effect on calcification of pipes

Anybody tried the products used to descale dishwashers?

I had no luck with vinegar but Lemishine did the job. It's advertised as being made from concentrated lemon juice.
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Old 21-02-2018, 15:07   #19
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Re: Toilet disinfectant effect on calcification of pipes

Back to the original question, Most over-the-counter toilet bowl cleaners I have encountered are a mix of 10% hydrochloric acid, surfactants, and pretty colors. I routinely add a little when flushing to let it stand in the delivery hose. However, I converted to fresh water flush a couple years ago and that was most probably why I have had no issues of late.
The scale that builds is a matrix of insoluble salts of Mg++, Ca++, NH4+ and carbonate, bicarbonate anions. The fizzing observed when HCl is added (or H3PO4, HAc(vinegar) is do to the reaction of the acids H+ with the carbonates or bi carbonates of the insoluble salts to release gaseous CO2, NH3 and Mg++, Ca++, NH4+ cations
If scale has been building for a long time (read thick matrix of various insoluble salts), it will take a concentrated bath of strong acids to dissolve it. Vinegar is a weak acid and so are phosphoric and oxalic. Both the latter are great for rust removal.
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Old 21-02-2018, 15:08   #20
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Re: Toilet disinfectant effect on calcification of pipes

Sea water laying dormant on the intake side plumbing and possibly in the bowl eventually becomes smelly due to dying sea life. This can take from a few days to weeks depending on volume, temperature etc.
The use of disinfectants is a desperate attempt to get rid of smells and if left in salt water with urine the result is usually calcification which does cause problems with rubber surfaces etc and eventual clogging. Why do you need a disinfectant when the only material left in the bowl is sea water? Does the ocean need a disinfectant?

I have put a sign near our two TMC electric toilets so visitors don't put anything foreign into the loo and also how to operate the valves. We also have a sign saying never to leave even a small amount of pee in the bowl and to flush for at least 5 seconds to clear all the outlet lines.
The use of strong acids such as Muriatic or phosphoric acid invariably cleans up everything but will certainly damage any metal fittings in particular the metal face that the intake water impeller rubs on. With this surface damage the water intake pump efficiency will deteriorate markedly.
I have also now installed a fresh water access above the waterline on the inlet side plumbing and when leaving the boat for any time I run fresh water through the lot and leave fresh water in all the lines.( A few cheap plastic valves and a small plastic funnel.) I occasionally add some used or new cooking oil to assist with pump lubrication. All the above learnt from past mistakes and the passage of .... time.
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Old 21-02-2018, 16:44   #21
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Re: Toilet disinfectant effect on calcification of pipes

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9 years on we continue with the odd dose of cleaning Duck stuff and if the pump starts to be stiff a splash of baby oil seems to do the trick.

Pete
Good info, thanks much!
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Old 23-02-2018, 22:20   #22
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Re: Toilet disinfectant effect on calcification of pipes

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I just recently put some duck Toilet disinfectant into the bowl on my toilet and I was wondering if anyone has ever studied whether the disinfectant has any effect on the calcification that occurs in the pipes on the head. I am using one of those disinfectant that actually sticks to the bowl. It seems very strong and I wonder if the chemicals in them would stop the calculation. I donít know? Does anyone know someone that could investigate this?
You need acid to dissolve calcification, so unless the cleaner is labelled to remove 'lime scale' then I doubt it would have any effect. To really affect scale build-up, go to the the chandlery, and buy a 'de-scaler'. There are a number of brands.

We are into our seventh year with the same hoses, and they are still pliable, and so no signs of scale (I give them a squeeze each year to check).

Apart from flushing reasonably well, at the end of each season, the holding tanks are rinsed through with freshwater, then the bowl of each toilet is filled to the brim with freshwater and a good amount of de-scaler. That is left to sit for an hour or so, then flushed through. I then keep flushing freshwater through until the holding tank is full, and then on the last flush, fill the bowl again with another good dollop of descaler, flushing through, but stopping short of emptying the bowl completely, so that the entire line is full. That is left to sit overnight, then the lot flushed through again, and the tank emptied for the season.

The results of all this, is the lines are scale free (from the overnight soak) as is the holding tank.

As I said, seven years on, all is still as good as day one.
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Old 23-02-2018, 22:54   #23
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Re: Toilet disinfectant effect on calcification of pipes

Here is something you do not see very often around head cleaning, actual results and real data about what works. It's just my opinion, but the pictures don't lie...

https://fetchinketch.net/2017/12/26/...th-a-solution/
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Old 25-02-2018, 18:58   #24
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Re: Toilet disinfectant effect on calcification of pipes

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Here is something you do not see very often around head cleaning, actual results and real data about what works. It's just my opinion, but the pictures don't lie...

https://fetchinketch.net/2017/12/26/...th-a-solution/
Yes, that would be totally as I would expect. Maybe vinegar used weekly would be beneficial, but a stronger acid (no doubt like the 'Sewclean' product in the article), is the solution.

As per an earlier post here, routine for us, is at the end of each season, we leave descaler standing in the pipes and tanks overnight. Seven years on, the pipes are still pliable, indicating no scale build-up.
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Old 25-02-2018, 19:53   #25
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Re: Toilet disinfectant effect on calcification of pipes

We've not had much luck with vinegar, but phosphoric acid works great. It's also much more user friendly that muriatic acid. Muriatic acid (HCL) fumes are hydroscopic so attack any moist surface, like the lining of your lungs or your eyes, making it difficult to use in a space with restricted ventilation. Phosphoric acid is not nearly as volatile and works nearly as well.
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Old 26-02-2018, 16:57   #26
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Re: Toilet disinfectant effect on calcification of pipes

Lots of chemicals you pour down your boat outlets will strip the antifouling paint off the hull in quite a large area adjacent to the thruhull.
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Old 26-02-2018, 17:25   #27
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Re: Toilet disinfectant effect on calcification of pipes

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Lots of chemicals you pour down your boat outlets will strip the antifouling paint off the hull in quite a large area adjacent to the thruhull.
Had not thought of that - you may be correct. We don't use antifouling paint (Coppercoated seven years ago), so no effect for us, but we try to minimise any non-organic discharge. The world has enough chemical pollution.

Having said that, the typical stronger acids used in de-scalers, while not classed as 'organic acid', are diluted very quickly upon discharge, and would be less than typical stomach contents.
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Old 26-02-2018, 20:07   #28
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Re: Toilet disinfectant effect on calcification of pipes

Vinegar regularly is all that is needed. We dont use land boat toilet products or muriatic acid. It's a living bioligical system.

We replaced all our head black hose with decent triple layer sanitation hose. Make sure you get rid of that cheap white ribbed single layer hose.

We occasionally add some microbes to the bowl to keep the bugs in the tank healthy. They consume the h2s from the bad bugs and their emissions dont stink.
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Old 27-02-2018, 08:57   #29
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Re: Toilet disinfectant effect on calcification of pipes

Vinegar doesn't work. Please stop spreading this old tired Marine toilet wives tale.

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/vinegar_in_the_head
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