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Old 17-01-2018, 12:12   #46
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Re: the things you see on the dock .....

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Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
It was the Flemish part of the excess line that I was trying to show in a Google captured picture... Agree, the cleat part was sloppy.
Yeah, I thought that was your intent, but the incorrect cleat hitch had me scratching my head.
I also do the Flemish like that.
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Old 17-01-2018, 13:04   #47
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Re: the things you see on the dock .....

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I'll stick with my full 360 before crossing the cleat..
Hi boatman61, there seems to be a pretty good running debate over the Half Cleat Hitch (180) and your Full Cleat Hitch (360). According to Kyle Gross from APS the books are divided on this, but there are really only TWO choices...

1. Half Cleat Hitch:
“Chapman’s Piloting and Seamanship”,’
“The Complete Rigger’s Apprentice”, Brion Toss
United States Power Squadrons

2. Full Cleat Hitch:
The Royal Yacht Association,
Hin’s “Knotting and Splicing”,
Isler’s “Sailing for Dummies”
Drapper’s Self Culture”

The troubling part for me is that there is actually a BoatUs web page that looks like a tutorial. The video if okay, but the 3-picture tutorial instructs the viewer to tie his boat with a DANGEROUS, IMPROPER KNOT. In the mixed opinions regarding the HALF Cleat Hitch versus the FULL Cleat Hitch, there is never a third possibility labelled ZERO CLEAT HITCH. (where there is NO first wrap at all around the base)

We look around the dock and frown upon the cleat hitch mistakes that will cause that same frown to become a cringe if there is a storm approaching if our boat is anywhere nearby. We might just assume that "they were never taught".

However, if we then look around the web and find that the SOURCE of some Cleat Hitch mistakes is an actual BoatUS web page... well a cringe just doesn't do it justice!
What Knot To Do - Trailering - BoatUS Magazine
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Old 17-01-2018, 13:32   #48
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Re: the things you see on the dock .....

Well, there's a saying, different ships, different long splices.

I guess Pelagic, Boatie, and ourselves are unusual using the full round turn on the cleat before the cleat hitch. If I were to get up on my high horse, I would say it is the only correct way to tie it because that's how I feel, and it is what we do. However, with so many pictures around of an incomplete method, I think that those guys who do it by those pictures would think their way is the "right" way, too. But, for you special guys who look at CF, I will explain. You want the full round turn before the hitch because this spreads the load more evenly on the line, reducing chafe, and also, gives you control of the boat if there is a cross wind, so that you can "sweat in" the line. There may be more advantages I haven't thought of, if so, I hope the others using it will chime in.

Ann
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Old 17-01-2018, 13:51   #49
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Re: the things you see on the dock .....

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Ouch!...... Naughty Nautical Knots...
NOT!

Aarrrgh!
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Old 17-01-2018, 14:44   #50
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Re: the things you see on the dock .....

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Originally Posted by JPA Cate View Post
You want the full round turn before the hitch because this spreads the load more evenly on the line, reducing chafe, and also, gives you control of the boat if there is a cross wind, so that you can "sweat in" the line. There may be more advantages I haven't thought of, if so, I hope the others using it will chime in.
I'm strongly in the half turn group.
If you do a full round circle, the first turn is snugged up between the standing part and the underside of the lead-in horn. Consequently the standing part can override the first turn jamming it under the cleat when under load - making it difficult if not impossible to release the line. This is especially true if the line runs down to the cleat i.e. from the boat to a finger.
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Old 17-01-2018, 14:49   #51
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pirate Re: the things you see on the dock .....

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I'm strongly in the half turn group.
If you do a full round circle, the first turn is snugged up between the standing part and the underside of the lead-in horn. Consequently the standing part can override the first turn jamming it under the cleat when under load - making it difficult if not impossible to release the line. This is especially true if the line runs down to the cleat i.e. from the boat to a finger.
That's what your right foot is for.. in the rare event this happens..
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Old 17-01-2018, 18:11   #52
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Re: the things you see on the dock .....

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yeah a proper cleat knot
To be all proper you would actually call that a "hitch" not a "knot". 😆
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Old 17-01-2018, 18:28   #53
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Re: the things you see on the dock .....

My Momma used to always use "knot" when correcting my bad behavior. She never said "I'll jerk a hitch in your tail, boy!"

I'm just sayin'

Aarrrgh!
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Old 18-01-2018, 00:28   #54
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Re: the things you see on the dock .....

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Originally Posted by Aaarrgh View Post
My Momma used to always use "knot" when correcting my bad behavior. She never said "I'll jerk a hitch in your tail, boy!"

I'm just sayin'

Aarrrgh!
Same with an old girlfriend who was into bondage..
Mind you...she did say she had an itch! ....
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Old 18-01-2018, 00:57   #55
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Re: the things you see on the dock .....

I'm amazed to see people getting bent out of shape over 'full turn' or 'half turn ' on a cleat. As far as I am concerned either works.

I am also surprised to see people making up a 'cleat hitch' on the pontoon, rather than on board. The only thing I ever have ashore is the eye... unless the line is 'on the bight' and the eye is brought back aboard and the 'cleat hitch' is made up on top of it.

I am also bemused by how few people know to dip the eye of their lines under the eyes of ropes already on a shore cleat or bollard..... or why it should be done.

As you can see I lead my life either amazed, surprised, or bemused.... sometimes all three at once...
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Old 18-01-2018, 04:12   #56
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pirate Re: the things you see on the dock .....

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I am also bemused by how few people know to dip the eye of their lines under the eyes of ropes already on a shore cleat or bollard..... or why it should be done.
I not surprised they don't know.. but I am amazed by the volume and variety of swearing when a 3rd or 4th line appears and does the same to them.. especially if the owners are ashore when they want to leave.. not unusual in Horta when it gets busy during the annual migration.
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Old 18-01-2018, 04:33   #57
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Re: the things you see on the dock .....

i only have 7 working fingers , when in doubt just use a bowline easiest one handed knot for general use , i will admit using a hangman's noose with 13 loops usually keeps people from untying your lines
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Old 18-01-2018, 09:29   #58
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the things you see on the dock .....

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
I'm amazed to see people getting bent out of shape over 'full turn' or 'half turn ' on a cleat. As far as I am concerned either works.
I didn't see anyone here get "bent out of shape" regarding a full cleat hitch or a half cleat hitch. Maybe that was a bit of a stretch for the pun? Not sure why the civil discussion amazed you. I found it quite informative and polite. Did I miss something? (I do that)

I was the one who DID get bent out of shape about the bogus online tutorial from BoatUS, which demonstrated neither a half cleat hitch nor a full cleat hitch, because their picture had no hint of a turn at ALL around the base. That might be an "empty" cleat hitch?
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Old 21-01-2018, 02:53   #59
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Re: the things you see on the dock .....

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
I'm strongly in the half turn group.
If you do a full round circle, the first turn is snugged up between the standing part and the underside of the lead-in horn. Consequently the standing part can override the first turn jamming it under the cleat when under load - making it difficult if not impossible to release the line. This is especially true if the line runs down to the cleat i.e. from the boat to a finger.
Agreed, never seen any evidence that half a turn wears or chafes the line but have seen a full turn jam the line on numerous occasions.

Yeah, you can step on the line to release the jam but if we are going to pick apart people over poor seamanship, giving up a solid base to stand on because the way the lines are tied off, seems just as bad.
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