Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 17-01-2018, 01:17   #31
Registered User
 
masou's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2017
Boat: Hinterhoeller C&C redwing 30
Posts: 35
Re: the things you see on the dock .....

all the knots have been assigned names because those are knots . every knot without a name is not a knot , also worth pointing out knots will decrease the strength a rope as much as up to 50% , also a great breeding ground for rot to occur over time, , its not a big thing to tie a proper cleat knot , but ill tell you the small things on a boat can make a big difference , we're forcast to have 50-60 knot winds through the harbour tomorrow ... am i worried about my boat on the mooring ? not really i have spliced 1, 1/2 inch braided rope to the top of the mooring buoy , and and 2 lines of 1 inch synthetic twist , with a denim sleeve (for chafe ) through the chain , so the ropes should be strong enough to lift my 4000lb mooring right out of the water , i have 4000 lbs of lead in the keel , and rope rated to 4000 lbs .... it should work even without boyancy factored into equation , weakest link in the chain is the plywood/glass deck the cleat is mounted in
masou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-01-2018, 01:41   #32
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,913
Re: the things you see on the dock .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by kish View Post
I agree that all excess length in lines should be taken back on board.
Extra line on the dock encourages cleats to be crocheted with the needless excess line.
It keeps dirt from dock away from lines.
It discourages passers by with a knife who may have an urgent need for a length of line!
It does take extra time to organise and it looks tidy.
Commercial shipping keep all their slack on board
Never had someone cut off and steal excess dock line. If I was going to steal your line, I would just uncleat it and take the whole thing.

Again, huge difference depending on:
- Stopping for 10minutes to gas up with someone present (in that case just slipping the loop over the cleat is quite reasonable.
- Stopping over night - I'm not going to worry about making it pretty just easy to get on and off
- Seasonal Slip - I have put in permanent lines with the loops going back to the boat, pre-measured. It's quick and easy to cast off and I have other dock lines available if I go into another slip for some reason.

Commercial ships rarely stay for a season and they have built i reels to hold excess line, so not really comparable.

For overnight stays, yes, I do typically take the excess line back to the boat and coil it up and hang it from the rails (with sufficient slack that it doesn't pull on the rail as the boat moves).
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-01-2018, 01:52   #33
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,913
Re: the things you see on the dock .....

An alternative to the flemish, which collects dirt and the first kid to come by kicks into the water is to daisy chain the excess (6-10' of excess with a dock a few feet above the water line. Too long and it still hangs into the water)

Make a small loop (6-8" diameter) reach thru the loop and grab the end and pull out another loop, then reach thru that loop and pull another...repeat until you get to the end and then loosely stick the end thru the last loop to hold it.

It will reduce 6' of line down to about 2' so the line stays out of the water. It doesn't interfere with releasing the line from the cleat in an emergency and if you need to undo it, pull the end out of the last loop and give it a pull and the whole thing comes undone in 2 seconds.

If you are hanging the excess (any reasonable length) from a rail, simply make a coil. Hold in one hand, reach thru the center with the other and under the rail. Then hand off and pull the top of the coil back thru the center. It will be wrapped around the rail and hold in place. To remove, simply grab from the other side of the rail and pull the middle back out.

I'm not against good practice but I'm also not going to call people incompetent for doing something harmless.
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-01-2018, 01:59   #34
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,913
Re: the things you see on the dock .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nani Kai View Post
In addition, however you secure your boat, the idea is to make it easily and quickly detachable. What if a vessel sitting next to you at the fuel dock catches on fire? What if a captain loses control of his boat upwind and up current from you and is now descending on your precious baby with 20 tons of momentum? Other posters are also correct in that you should strive to not create another trip hazard on the dock or to eliminate someone else's use of a particular tie off point. There, that's my two half hitches worth.
Again, we weren't given enough info to determine if it's quickly detachable or if it's near the fuel dock. If it's permanently attached dock lines with loops of predetermined length on the boat, it is quick and easy to cast off.

If a 20ton boat is bearing down out of control at speed...I'm moving everyone to the dock and will call the insurance company when things setle down. Not many could start the engines, cast off and get clear before a boat in the fairway hits you. I've seen people do enough stupid things trying to save an object that can be replaced. Saw one guy nearly lose both feet as he jumped onto the swim platform to fend off one such out of control boat and the swim platforms overlapped in a sizzer action. Luckily at the last second he realized what a stupid thing he was doing and jumped onto the other boats swim platform.
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-01-2018, 01:59   #35
Registered User
 
masou's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2017
Boat: Hinterhoeller C&C redwing 30
Posts: 35
Re: the things you see on the dock .....

another good try
its just sad when you see a 50 foot super yacht tied up like this , meanwhile i wouldnt tie my dingy off like that , dingy always has bow and stern line , around winch and to cleat rafted not drifting beside the boat , thats a big noob mistake on a mooring , dragging your dingy instead of rafting it off with two lines , iv watched people loose dinghy in storms because they tied off with one line also the dingy bashes into the hull and misses the fenders if the lines aren't taught
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG2292.jpg
Views:	103
Size:	427.3 KB
ID:	162423  
masou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-01-2018, 02:02   #36
Registered User
 
masou's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2017
Boat: Hinterhoeller C&C redwing 30
Posts: 35
Re: the things you see on the dock .....

masou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-01-2018, 03:57   #37
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,913
Re: the things you see on the dock .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by masou View Post
another good try
its just sad when you see a 50 foot super yacht tied up like this , meanwhile i wouldnt tie my dingy off like that , dingy always has bow and stern line , around winch and to cleat rafted not drifting beside the boat , thats a big noob mistake on a mooring , dragging your dingy instead of rafting it off with two lines , iv watched people loose dinghy in storms because they tied off with one line also the dingy bashes into the hull and misses the fenders if the lines aren't taught
1) 50' is not a "super yacht". I could be wrong but I think you have to be north of 100' before most consider it a "super yacht". Might be longer but that's beyond my pay grade.
2) I can't see if they tied off more than one line or not as the picture only shows the dock cleat.
3) Even zoomed in with the black line and dark shadows, I can't follow the line thru the knot, so I can't tell if it's a normal cleating just slid to the side or if there is something wrong. Can you share what you see wrong with it so maybe I can find it? There might be something wrong and it might be obvious walking down the docks but the picture isn't clearly showing it.
4) I'm unclear where the dingy is in the picture and it doesn't appear to be a picture of a mooring.
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-01-2018, 06:18   #38
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: PNW
Boat: Bruce Roberts Ketch 40
Posts: 477
Re: the things you see on the dock .....

Those examples of securing lines to cleats are just plain naughty.

Knotty is preferred.
Maka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-01-2018, 07:06   #39
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charlotte, NC
Boat: Beneteau 321 Namaste
Posts: 15
Re: the things you see on the dock .....

I walk to the docks of my marina periodically and among other things, count the number of properly tied cleat hitches - 5% tops.
I can truthfully tell my students that you are now in the top 5 % of boaters.
jslayton321 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-01-2018, 08:40   #40
Registered User
 
Aaarrgh's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Western KY - US
Boat: 1984 Merit 25
Posts: 121
Re: the things you see on the dock .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nani Kai View Post
... A top 1st AC from NYC set me straight. He said if you're sloppy with this simple thing then that tells me you're also sloppy with more critical things. If you want me to trust you (and hire you again) then you have to be professional with everything you do. I apply that same evaluation to how someone secures their vessel, dock line to a cleat being the most common. If you don't know or don't care how to do this very basic, simple task then what else do you not know or not care about?...
"Aye Aye!"
I've been a painting contractor for 30+ years, and I (and my high-end clients) expect and deserve a realistic and achievable level of perfection, with the understanding that we live in an imperfect world.
My declaration to anyone who works with me is, "There are three reasons why your work does not meet my standards. You either can't see, you don't know' or you don't care - all of which I can help you correct."

Regarding English grammar, even in Western Kentucky, "Foreigners" (even U.S. born and raised) often have difficulty recognizing particular words that we pronounce "correctly". However, in writing, anyone can be grammatically correct. Those who seemingly cannot either can't see, don't know' or don't care - none of which I am capable to help them correct.

As far as dock knot "etiquette", mine is not perfect, but I make sure that my tub stays where I want it to be when I return, that it does not contact other boats, and that my lines are not a safety hazard or a urine magnet. This is part of my "Choose your battles wisely" mindset. However, I make sure that I respectfully receive criticism, and confess that I can't see, I don't know, or I don't care, and if the critic chooses to not help me correct the object of his criticism, then he either can't see, doesn't know, or doesn't care.

ALL OF WHICH A MUCH NEEDED BELT OF GROG WILL HELP US CHOOSE OUR BATTLES WISELY, WHETHER IT HELPS US CORRECT... WHATEVER... OR NOT!

Aarrrgh!
Aaarrgh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-01-2018, 09:35   #41
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,038
Re: the things you see on the dock .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
This is what I usually do
https://goo.gl/images/2HoUdj
I hope you don't usually do that.
It is NOT a proper cleat hitch, as the first step was missed: they forgot to give the cleat base a half-wrap before going over the top of the cleat. (see step #1, the blue rope, in masou's picture...)
I'm happy to be proven wrong, but those boatus instructions would get a failing grade in ASA101. Not sure about the knot itself failing, but the first half-wrap is considered a key step. No?
Cy
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	BAD-cleat-hitch-step-3.jpg
Views:	86
Size:	58.4 KB
ID:	162432   Click image for larger version

Name:	proper-982b.jpg
Views:	91
Size:	38.0 KB
ID:	162433  

cyan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-01-2018, 10:26   #42
Registered User
 
senormechanico's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2003
Boat: Dragonfly 1000 trimaran
Posts: 6,879
Re: the things you see on the dock .....

Valhalla was describing this knot for taking up the extra dock lines.

__________________
One should try to "Die Young" as old as possible.
senormechanico is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-01-2018, 10:29   #43
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 25,806
Images: 2
pirate Re: the things you see on the dock .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyan View Post
I hope you don't usually do that.
It is NOT a proper cleat hitch, as the first step was missed: they forgot to give the cleat base a half-wrap before going over the top of the cleat. (see step #1, the blue rope, in masou's picture...)
I'm happy to be proven wrong, but those boatus instructions would get a failing grade in ASA101. Not sure about the knot itself failing, but the first half-wrap is considered a key step. No?
Cy
I'll stick with my full 360 before crossing the cleat..
__________________


Born To Be Wild.. Double Click on the picture.
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-01-2018, 11:23   #44
CF Adviser
 
Pelagic's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 9,585
Re: the things you see on the dock .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maka View Post
Those examples of securing lines to cleats are just plain naughty.

Knotty is preferred.
Ouch!...... Naughty Nautical Knots...
Pelagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-01-2018, 11:27   #45
CF Adviser
 
Pelagic's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 9,585
Re: the things you see on the dock .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyan View Post
I hope you don't usually do that.
It is NOT a proper cleat hitch, as the first step was missed: they forgot to give the cleat base a half-wrap before going over the top of the cleat. (see step #1, the blue rope, in masou's picture...)
I'm happy to be proven wrong, but those boatus instructions would get a failing grade in ASA101. Not sure about the knot itself failing, but the first half-wrap is considered a key step. No?
Cy
It was the Flemish part of the excess line that I was trying to show in a Google captured picture... Agree, the cleat part was sloppy.
Pelagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
dock

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dry Dock - things to do? Milan69 Liveaboard's Forum 7 03-09-2015 22:07
Things you Wished you'd Known before you went Cruising captjeanette Families, Kids and Pets Afloat 84 09-02-2014 04:58
Things I'd Like to See :) . . . MarkJ OpenCPN 2 26-09-2010 11:02
Things that work and things that don't... svHyLyte Construction, Maintenance & Refit 58 03-11-2006 23:13

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:45.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.