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Old 03-07-2019, 13:02   #61
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Re: The Live aboard stereotype.

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
See that is what surprises me, get down in the high dollar part of Fl, and the slip rents follow the house and condo rent prices, not sure they correlate exactly, but a slip in S Fl is orders of magnitude higher than your paying.
I stay away, the people around there I donít care for.
Most of the folks in the Bay Area are not boaters, and have no interest in it. A goodly portion don't even know that the California delta exists. While sailing is pretty good here it's not that big compared to the East Coast locations. There just isn't that many places to go to unless you go to the Delta. There is a big racing Fleet, but that's a completely different animal. Plus with the cost of housing, gas, and cars, most folks don't have time for boating.

I'm anchored out next to an island that in years past would have five or six boats Anchored for the 4th. Of course, I avoid the huge Mess of boats (1000's) that anchor for Barron Hilton's fireworks that can only be seen by boat. Perhaps that's why I have a quite Anchorage today.
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Old 04-07-2019, 04:00   #62
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Re: The Live aboard stereotype.

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
... Am I a :
- a liveaboard
- a cruiser
- an anchor out
- boat trailer trash
- useless old fat man on a boat
- an eyesore to the land owners
- a money spender for the local business
Is it possible I might be more than one or all?
Indeed, it is.
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Old 04-07-2019, 04:28   #63
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Re: The Live aboard stereotype.

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Originally Posted by Sailing August View Post
I don't know any Live Aboard that can afford to stay in a marina.

why would you say that? living in a marina is no more expensive than renting an apartment or owning a house. actually it may be cheaper in many cases.
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Old 04-07-2019, 06:01   #64
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Re: The Live aboard stereotype.

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Originally Posted by Sailing August View Post
I dont know any Live Aboard that can afford to stay in a marina.
No disrespect intended, but your post indicates that you may have not actually been out checking marina slip fees for liveaboards. My liveaboard neighbors here in the marina seem to be able to afford living here (and a few of them are on the down-and-out side and still try to maintain their boats to the best of their financial and skill abilities).

I'm a newbie cruiser (just over 2 years into it) and as I posted earlier have just moved into a marina for a few months. $300 a month with unmetered electricity. Gotta spend hurricane season somewhere so might as well use this marina as a base for a while.

That being said, while I have a slip paid for here in Biloxi it doesn't stop me from sailing over to Mobile, Pensacola, or New Orleans. It also helps that, although I have a job here, my employer is also a cruiser and understands that when the winds are right....
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Old 04-07-2019, 09:20   #65
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Re: The Live aboard stereotype.

Have we missed the 'old fart' option? The one I nearly got kicked outa here when joining?


Well, well, social media, summer, live-aboards vs. cruisers, episode 11.


The way I see it, people are of all sorts and want to have a happy life. To the posh yacht owner with a Titanium AmEx card this implies a clean marina without cruising scum. To people who enjoy the trailer / livea-board boheme life this means free water supply, cheap electricity, wifi 'stolen' from local bar and not getting bothered by the police for living a simple if marginal life!


The problem is that the boheme part can only do some dirty talk when angered. The posh part have the state, the legislators and the police at their disposal.


So, it is not a fair fight. And the fight SHOULD BE fair. Otherwise it is not sport, nor is it 21 century in countries that label themselves as the bastions of freedom and democracy.


What freedom when a live-aboard is pestered by the state and ridiculized by the yacht owner ???


The rich sailor is allowed thousands of acres of land, property and many boats across many continents.


The poor live-aboard is criticized for staying at a local dock and keeping their garbage within 30 feet perimeter of their HOME.


C'mon, wake up call. And it is not about taking sides or being in this or that kind of boat.


It is all about too many / sailors / live-abourds / people / and the rich dictating the poor the rules.


Admins, worry not, there will be no revolution. We are too well fed. We are too well groomed by schools, churches and social media. Besides, this is summer, this is social media talk and above that, one cannot fight the multitude.


Better become a Tao fan, sail with the flow and get to a place where you are not pestered. Fewer and fewer such places are each year, and more remote from broadband too. But is it not what we are asking for? The adventure, the remote destinations, the boheme life ...




;-)))))))

Cheers,
b.
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Old 04-07-2019, 09:29   #66
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Re: The Live aboard stereotype.

Don’t pay any attention to the stereotype of the bitter angry bohemian people living on boats.
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Old 08-07-2019, 01:54   #67
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Re: The Live aboard stereotype.

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Originally Posted by TCM1968 View Post
Valhalla360, I really donít understand your responses to me. Iím just voicing my opinion as anyone else is here. You seem to insinuate that my opinions are pointless. I would welcome rational debate if you had any but it seems you donít and can only attempt to reply as if you have spoken and us little people should shut up and go away.
Not sure why you feel so repressed in this discussion. Your opinion is worthwhile but as a non-marina owner and part of a tiny minority of potential customers, it's not likely to change anything in the real world. If it makes you feel better, I can try to reword that in a kinder gentler way.

I'm just sharing why your point of view is unlikely to be held by the marina owner who likely has millions of dollars tied up in his investment and ultimately gets to decide what the rules are (subject to any legal limitations on allowing liveaboards). So far you haven't made an economic case that would encourage him to change the rules.
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Old 08-07-2019, 06:36   #68
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Re: The Live aboard stereotype.

We live-a-board and yes it is hard to find marinas that welcome you, but mainly because of the pumping overboard some claim we do. Enforce rules and require proof of pump out will fix all. As for 97 yr old slip mate, here in the south we pitch in and help out!
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Old 08-07-2019, 06:47   #69
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Re: The Live aboard stereotype.

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Mstrawler.
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Old 08-07-2019, 06:48   #70
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Re: The Live aboard stereotype.

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Originally Posted by Calif.Ted View Post
Don't shoot the messenger, some of my best friends are liveaboards, even a few WAY outside the already extensive RULES of the marina. Said rules already cover vessel appearance and seaworthiness, but impossible to enforce without draconian measures. By far the majority of boats in the "Scruffy" class are those with apparently absentee owners not liveaboards. It's not boaters living aboard that cause the trouble, it's troubled people trying to live aboard.
BTW my "beach house" is a 30 yo trailer worth bupkiss on an ocean view lot worth more than my custom built Victorian in the mountains 90 miles away. It's not living in California that's expensive, it's living near the ocean that's expensive. Isn't it the same in Texas ? My sister was just bending my ear about leaving Denver because "It's getting so expensive in Colorado".
Thatís cause all the money buckets from California me vine to Colorado and driving up prices. Haha
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Old 08-07-2019, 08:04   #71
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Re: The Live aboard stereotype.

We have a simple problem in CA which is different from many other places. Due to rampant NIMBYism, the massive growth in high paying jobs in CA has outstripped home building by a tremendous amount.

This is at the root of this ďlive aboardĒ issue and certainly amplifies the homeless problem.

A few facts: In 2017 San Francisco industries created over 85,000 new jobs. During the same year it only allowed 1,800 new housing units to be built. Why? Because home owners in SF went to court to stop the construction of all sorts of housing. Why? Well, it has made the home they already own worth a LOT MORE. But also because it is most certainly changing the type of City they live in.

The problem is simple supply vs demand.

As to maintaining a bot so that itís functional, our local Marina has a simple test. The boat needs to leave the Marina 6 (I think) times a year and travel around a buoy 1 mile out and back again, or more. Nothing is allowed on the dock, except on dock box. If you break the rules, the warm you. If you continue, the impound your boat. The Marina is run by a Harbor Partol which is armed and is deputized by the Police.

This may sound harsh, but it was the only way to stop the rampant theft and other crimes (there were two murders) which was going on under prior management.
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Old 08-07-2019, 08:20   #72
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Re: The Live aboard stereotype.

Valhalla360, Please do not lose any sleep worrying weather or not I feel repressed by your comments.

My comments however are not intended to change any existing rule by any particular marina owner. I am though assuming you are yourself also not a marina owner and therefore should not speak as if you are one no more than I should.

As to your other point, I believe I have made an economic case as to why a marina owner should encourage more live-aboards. But for you I will make one last attempt.
Mr. Rich Britches and his fancy new yacht could care less if someone is living on their boat in the same marina he is docked at. What he might care about is if the marina is full of run down crappy looking wrecks. So if you want to make that argument it has nothing to do with live-aboards and that was my original intent of this post. Not the economics of a marina. People tend to attached the stigma to live-aboards that they are responsible for all the low class trash boats in marinas. And people with any class would only live in a land home.
I would counter your argument that live-aboards are a tiny insignificant minority with rich people with super yachts really are the tiny minority you speak of. This may not be the case in some exclusive places around the world, but I can tell you this, that the overwhelming majority of slips in this area are filled with older used boats bought and owned by common hard working people who earned the money they used to purchase the boat. Most of these are still very nice vessels, and others are in varies states of repair or dis-repair if you choose. So since slip prices are based on size and not the year and or price of the boat. Then strictly economically speaking a marina that charges an additional fee for live-aboards is better of financially the more live-aboards it has. Itís simple math.

But again you are the one who turned this into an economical debate so I ask you again why would a marina owner make less profit by allowing live-aboards?
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Old 08-07-2019, 08:32   #73
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Re: The Live aboard stereotype.

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Originally Posted by Beau.Vrolyk View Post
We have a simple problem in CA which is different from many other places. Due to rampant NIMBYism, the massive growth in high paying jobs in CA has outstripped home building by a tremendous amount.

This is at the root of this ďlive aboardĒ issue and certainly amplifies the homeless problem.

A few facts: In 2017 San Francisco industries created over 85,000 new jobs. During the same year it only allowed 1,800 new housing units to be built. Why? Because home owners in SF went to court to stop the construction of all sorts of housing. Why? Well, it has made the home they already own worth a LOT MORE. But also because it is most certainly changing the type of City they live in.

The problem is simple supply vs demand.

As to maintaining a bot so that itís functional, our local Marina has a simple test. The boat needs to leave the Marina 6 (I think) times a year and travel around a buoy 1 mile out and back again, or more. Nothing is allowed on the dock, except on dock box. If you break the rules, the warm you. If you continue, the impound your boat. The Marina is run by a Harbor Partol which is armed and is deputized by the Police.

This may sound harsh, but it was the only way to stop the rampant theft and other crimes (there were two murders) which was going on under prior management.
I hardly think that Californiaís homeless problem is from too many high paying jobs. Your facts about the job numbers and new housing numbers may be facts about San Francisco, but I highly doubt the heroin addicts taking a crap on the sidewalks in S.F. are getting out of their cardboard boxes and going to their 6 figure job everyday??

I do however think your local marina is doing it the right way though. If your boat is inoperable then keep it in the boat yard to fix it.
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Old 08-07-2019, 08:59   #74
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Re: The Live aboard stereotype.

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Originally Posted by TCM1968 View Post
I hardly think that Californiaís homeless problem is from too many high paying jobs. Your facts about the job numbers and new housing numbers may be facts about San Francisco, but I highly doubt the heroin addicts taking a crap on the sidewalks in S.F. are getting out of their cardboard boxes and going to their 6 figure job everyday??

I do however think your local marina is doing it the right way though. If your boat is inoperable then keep it in the boat yard to fix it.
How can one state a boat is inoperable if the owner is out traveling or not around? The boat my very well be seaworthy and operable, but the owner could be out working in another location
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Old 08-07-2019, 09:01   #75
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Re: The Live aboard stereotype.

I’d like to redirect a little. My dog and I just moved into our boat as permanent live aboards. We just spent our 4th night aboard.
We are in Minnesota so way off the ocean, however we are on one of the biggest rivers in the states. The Mississippi. It’s relatively fast flowing and very busy with barges. The channel is a minimum of 9 feet deep. There are hundreds of “wing dams” all along the shores. These are rock and concrete just under the surface to direct the river. In other words you don’t go out of the channel without knowing where these are. This means you do not venture out with less than perfect running boat.

So jumping into live aboard is less expensive than apartments and homes. However in every case here it’s not the economic factor that is driving this. I’ve met at least 25 LAB’s here and everyone is what you might call an ideal neighbor. They are the most friendly people I’ve ever met. I’m 77 so I rank among the oldest but active here. I met a gentleman on the way to the boat from the bath house last night, obvious of southern decent. The parting was typical Southern, “now y’all take it easy and be careful. Y’all need help, just ask. Ya hreara.” I had to laugh as I spent 20 years working in the south as a Yankee.

As for boats there really are few very new ones. There are a couple houseboat scows but even the “junkiest” is still neat and kept up. The rule is the boast must remain mobile. There are houseboats with a 2x12 across the street and an outboard Motor.

Otherwise there are lots of cruisers and cabin boats. All well kept.

I suspect our marina is a far cry from coastal marinas. I can see where there could be status issues and others noted in this thread. I searched for two years for a suitable marina. Many don’t have live aboards as our winters are some of the harshest in the country. Nearly every LAB here is native to Minn. so winters are a natural thing we deal with. Just as summer heat is native to coastal areas. The bottom line is the choice of living you desire.

Cost is going to drive some.

I check blood pressure daily. I just spent 5 days in the hospital for a mysterious infection. My BP never was below 175/88. It’s normally 117/76. Checked today after a walk with my dog..119/ 78. I’m happy. And feel good. No stress living. It’s hard to do some of the boat work but after all the cussing is done I feel good.
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