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Group9 · 11-02-2020, 07:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

living aboard is fundamentally camping on the water regardless of size. It can be fun for a while but it’s still camping

The tiny house movement is pretty interesting. You see a lot of younger people living in houses that are often similar in size to a lot of cruising boats.

It will be interesting to see if they can stick with it long term.

**hpeer** · 11-02-2020, 07:27

Oh, and my quarantine plan is pretty good! pffft!

Mike OReilly · 11-02-2020, 07:41

Well, my view is that if you have fixed shelter, if you're not in real wilderness, and most especially if you travel other than via self-propelled means, then you ain't camping. But yes, that's my opinion.

I'm in no way demeaning RVing, or any other version of this kind of living. It's a great way to get around. Personally, I want to do more of it myself. Heck, I usually refer to my boat as an RV on the water. And just like most RVs, it has many of the standard luxuries as a land home; electricity, water, heat, fridge, lots of storage, a fixed roof, etc... All the luxuries of home.

This ain't camping.

Woodland Hills · 11-02-2020, 07:41

Tiny houses are popular due to student loans. Once the debt gets paid off they can qualify for a mortgage and buy a full size home. Maybe by the time they are in their 40’s?

If your walls and roof are canvas you’re camping, if not you’re RVing.

gamayun · 11-02-2020, 07:55

All the funny comments reminded me of dating my (now) ex-husband. One of the criteria that I'd had in a choosing a partner was that we had to get along within the confines of a tent. So I took him camping at my favorite spot. We got along alright but he was miserable and we never camped together again. He told me, "my idea of roughing it is not having room service." Seemed funny at the time. I've since read a lot about codependency

dwedeking2 · 11-02-2020, 08:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodland Hills

Tiny houses are popular due to student loans. Once the debt gets paid off they can qualify for a mortgage and buy a full size home. Maybe by the time they are in their 40’s?

If your walls and roof are canvas you’re camping, if not you’re RVing.

I'm sure some of it is that. I also think there is a movement to get away from supporting a large debt load and spending life on experiencing it (vs purchasing items).

It's amazing when you get away from spending 50 - 60% of your paycheck on housing, food and debt management. All of sudden you have money to go and do things. When I lived on a dock my marina fees where 2/3 of the cost of an apartment in my "economically" expected price range. The savings paid for my boat after 18 months. Here in Key West a 1 bedroom apartment is 4x - 5x the cost of my mooring ball rent.

For now this leaves me a large chunk of $$ for boat projects. When my boat is finished I could work 1/2 the hours and still be comfortable. That's a big positive to the tiny/small house living (which I feel my lifestyle is a variation of).

Woodland Hills · 11-02-2020, 08:15

Regarding tiny houses: why not just buy a 2nd hand fifth wheel trailer? Cheaper, more amenities, more space with slide out walls. They also have air conditioning and hot water heaters. Never could figure that one out. Neither one is zoned for full time occupancy in most jurisdictions and both will need a septic hookup to be even marginally legal for part time occupation.

Living in a tiny or an RV is not too different from living full time on a boat. You need to find a way to legally deal with black water, you need to find a place to legally park/anchor and not every campground/marina allows liveaboards/permanent full timers.

Mike OReilly · 11-02-2020, 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodland Hills

Regarding tiny houses: why not just buy a 2nd hand fifth wheel trailer? Cheaper, more amenities, more space with slide out walls. They also have air conditioning and hot water heaters. Never could figure that one out. Neither one is zoned for full time occupancy in most jurisdictions and both will need a septic hookup to be even marginally legal for part time occupation.

I've been looking at the tiny home options, and have come to the same conclusions. I don't really see the point when there's so many better and cheaper RV choices out there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodland Hills

Living in a tiny or an RV is not too different from living full time on a boat. You need to find a way to legally deal with black water, you need to find a place to legally park/anchor and not every campground/marina allows liveaboards/permanent full timers.

Exactly why I call our boat a floating RV. The similarities are many, except it's a lot easier to find a free place to anchor vs -- at least that's what it seems to me. Although I do know there are plenty of places in the American deserts, and even in the Canadian northern wilds, where it is possible to stay long periods in an RV.

Woodland Hills · 11-02-2020, 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I've been looking at the tiny home options, and have come to the same conclusions. I don't really see the point when there's so many better and cheaper RV choices out there.

Exactly why I call our boat a floating RV. The similarities are many, except it's a lot easier to find a free place to anchor vs -- at least that's what it seems to me. Although I do know there are plenty of places in the American deserts, and even in the Canadian northern wilds, where it is possible to stay long periods in an RV.

I doubt there is anywhere in the American desert where you can dump your poop on the ground........ legally. But yes, there are places like Slab City where you can get away with it. If you are still mobile, you can drive to a dump station which is what the thousands who winter in Quartzite do.

rbk · 11-02-2020, 08:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwedeking2

I'm sure some of it is that. I also think there is a movement to get away from supporting a large debt load and spending life on experiencing it (vs purchasing items).

It's amazing when you get away from spending 50 - 60% of your paycheck on housing, food and debt management. All of sudden you have money to go and do things. When I lived on a dock my marina fees where 2/3 of the cost of an apartment in my "economically" expected price range. The savings paid for my boat after 18 months. Here in Key West a 1 bedroom apartment is 4x - 5x the cost of my mooring ball rent.

For now this leaves me a large chunk of $$ for boat projects. When my boat is finished I could work 1/2 the hours and still be comfortable. That's a big positive to the tiny/small house living (which I feel my lifestyle is a variation of).

While I agree with your statement I also find it odd that a generation so enamoured with saving the planet and reducing greenhouse gasses is gravitating towards a very inefficient housing model.

rbk · 11-02-2020, 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Well, my view is that if you have fixed shelter, if you're not in real wilderness, and most especially if you travel other than via self-propelled means, then you ain't camping. But yes, that's my opinion.

I'm in no way demeaning RVing, or any other version of this kind of living. It's a great way to get around. Personally, I want to do more of it myself. Heck, I usually refer to my boat as an RV on the water. And just like most RVs, it has many of the standard luxuries as a land home; electricity, water, heat, fridge, lots of storage, a fixed roof, etc... All the luxuries of home.

This ain't camping.

I’m more or less with you Mike. I will be heading out in a few weeks time and most likely 2-3 more times before April if I can escape, where some friends and I will snowmobile 80-120km (50-75m) our into the wilderness just to make camp, military wall tent, with wood stove; Where we will spend a week or so hunting, sleeping on cocoa mats on the ground, cooking on an open fire and our living room will be outside and the fridge is the snow bank, all with an average temp in the -20’c (-5f) range. That to me is luxury camping, no freeze dried meals, a warm tent, access to chainsaws for large warm fires etc. Many consider that roughing it and some sort of crazy death wish.
We have a truck camper with all the same boat amenities and while I would call it truck camping we still spend the majority of our time outside around a fire, fishing, hiking etc. I know too many people with large travel trailers, 5th wheels/RV’s that drag the family out to a campground only to sit inside the trailer watching movies on their 50” TV; that’s not camping. I think it’s more attitude rather than what you use to camp. It is what you make it.

Mike OReilly · 11-02-2020, 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodland Hills

I doubt there is anywhere in the American desert where you can dump your poop on the ground........ legally. But yes, there are places like Slab City where you can get away with it. If you are still mobile, you can drive to a dump station which is what the thousands who winter in Quartzite do.

Yeah ... poop is always the problem. My plan would be to use my composting head in any RV. Hard to fit one in a camper van though

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbk

I’m more or less with you Mike. ... I know too many people with large travel trailers, 5th wheels/RV’s that drag the family out to a campground only to sit inside the trailer watching movies on their 50” TV; that’s not camping. I think it’s more attitude rather than what you use to camp. It is what you make it.

Your snowmobile trip sounds like a great time.

And I agree. It's interesting to see the evolution of "camping." I guess it parallels the evolution of boating, but it seems even more extreme. These days you can get a fancy Class A bus that, with all the sliders and whatnot, turns out to have more floor space than any home I ever owned.

letsgetsailing3 · 11-02-2020, 09:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

And I agree. It's interesting to see the evolution of "camping." I guess it parallels the evolution of boating, but it seems even more extreme. These days you can get a fancy Class A bus that, with all the sliders and whatnot, turns out to have more floor space than any home I ever owned.

Exactly. RVs are fancy camping vehicles.