Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 27-02-2020, 14:40   #376
Registered User
 
wingssail's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: On Vessel WINGS, wherever there's an ocean, currently in Mexico
Boat: Serendipity 43
Posts: 2,911
Send a message via AIM to wingssail Send a message via Skype™ to wingssail
Re: Substandard Housing

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Island Time is misinterpreting the requirement for a willing buyer and a willing seller, in determining FMV... FMV is an estimate of the market value of a property based on what an educated, willing, and unpressured buyer and seller, each behaving in their own best interest, could agree on...
Exactly!
__________________
Sailing is a sport, an athletic activity, not a sedentary one.
Fred Roswold-Fred & Judy, SV Wings, Mexico
https://wingssail.blogspot.com/
wingssail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-02-2020, 16:10   #377
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,038
Re: Substandard Housing

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
From where do you think local governments should get their revenue, if not property taxes?
In the US, the largest source is intergovernmental transfers, mainly state government, at 36%. Property tax accounts for 30% of local government revenue. The local property tax part of this results in rich communities having much better police, roads, and schools than poor communities because of higher property values. I would have guessed you'd be on the other side of this one?
cyan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-02-2020, 17:00   #378
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Lake Ont
Posts: 6,694
Re: Substandard Housing

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyan View Post
rich communities [have] much better police, roads, and schools than poor communities because of higher property values they're rich and can influence local government.
FTFY
Lake-Effect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-02-2020, 17:13   #379
S/V rubber ducky
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bahamas cruising currently
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 17,664
Re: Substandard Housing

I am always amazed at how a thread can drift.
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-02-2020, 20:13   #380
Registered User
 
AKA-None's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Lake City MN
Boat: C&C 27 Mk III
Posts: 1,283
Re: Substandard Housing

So by some arguments here there should also be a tax on things like church property. They bring value but no taxes. And gramma sells her house and moves where?
Is there no value in a stable community? Yet in another prepper thread people were saying they would go there, but what would be there? People who are possibly not committed to to community because they have no long term relationship?
So many questions so few answers or options.
__________________
Special knowledge can be a terrible disadvantage if it leads you too far along a path that you cannot explain anymore.
Frank Herbert 'Dune'
AKA-None is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-02-2020, 20:17   #381
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 10,071
Re: Substandard Housing

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKA-None View Post
So by some arguments here there should also be a tax on things like church property. They bring value but no taxes. And gramma sells her house and moves where?
I'm not getting into the property tax drift, but I'm all for taxing churches just like any other property. Irks me that they get a free ride just because the owners claim to talk to invisible friends.

(How's that for drift potential ).
__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27-02-2020, 21:04   #382
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Lake Ont
Posts: 6,694
Re: Substandard Housing

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKA-None View Post
So by some arguments here there should also be a tax on things like church property. They bring value but no taxes. And gramma sells her house and moves where?
Is there no value in a stable community? Yet in another prepper thread people were saying they would go there, but what would be there? People who are possibly not committed to to community because they have no long term relationship?
So many questions so few answers or options.
Grandma doesn't have to move unless she and Grandad failed to plan for retirement. Or their kids are selfish, impatient $h1ts. There are such things as reverse mortgages, which would keep the tax bills paid til Grandma is called to be with Grandad once again.

There's lots of value in a stable community.
Lake-Effect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-02-2020, 22:20   #383
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,038
Re: Substandard Housing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
FTFY
That doesn't make any sense.
Such silliness makes me curious about your thoughts on the original statement of the thread.
cyan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-02-2020, 00:32   #384
Registered User
 
Island Time O25's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,678
Re: Substandard Housing

I believe the themes of substandard housing and property taxes are interconnected.

We can argue pro and con of various property tax schemes but one fact remains - even if you pay off your mortgage (or initially pruchased for cash) the property never really belongs to you. Try not paying your property tax bill for one or more years and you will see it more clearly. And that's what it's all about - the government allowing us to reside in a place that is supposedly "ours" as long as we pay that gov't off one way or another. A classic mafia-style shakedown scheme.
Island Time O25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-02-2020, 05:22   #385
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 10,071
Re: Substandard Housing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Time O25 View Post
I believe the themes of substandard housing and property taxes are interconnected.



We can argue pro and con of various property tax schemes but one fact remains - even if you pay off your mortgage (or initially pruchased for cash) the property never really belongs to you. Try not paying your property tax bill for one or more years and you will see it more clearly. And that's what it's all about - the government allowing us to reside in a place that is supposedly "ours" as long as we pay that gov't off one way or another. A classic mafia-style shakedown scheme.


Or, the cost of living in a civil society.
__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 28-02-2020, 06:25   #386
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,762
Re: Substandard Housing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
I'm not getting into the property tax drift, but I'm all for taxing churches just like any other property. Irks me that they get a free ride just because the owners claim to talk to invisible friends.

(How's that for drift potential ).

I guess we should tax private universities, too.

Harvard University gets taxpayer subsidies, though it has $35 billion in endowments. Every student could go there free, just from that. So why are taxpayers loaning money to students to go there, again?

Yet some folk think taxpayers should directly pay everyone's tuition, and also pay any debts from people who still owe on their student loans.
letsgetsailing3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-02-2020, 06:34   #387
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,762
Re: Substandard Housing

Quote:
Originally Posted by loneshark64 View Post
Florida is substandard housing.

Yet it's full of people who went there because they liked it better than THEIR states.
letsgetsailing3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-02-2020, 06:48   #388
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,762
Re: Substandard Housing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Time O25 View Post
By your logic if everyone around me is selling for $500K and I am waiting for that $1mil offer I should be taxed at $1mil while I wait?

You keep missing my point, whether intentionally or otherwise. I am not arguing that everything does not have its price and ultimately FMV. I am arguing that until that happens, and only then and not before, there can be and there should be no theoretical FMV upon which to base taxation of one's property.

Sure it would be inconvenient, especially politically, to have neighbors pay vastly different amounts of taxes. But it is only right that people are not gouged just because their neighbors paid 10X today compared to X which someone paid 20 years ago.

I recall reading about such system existing in France and how it is meant to keep the elderly in their ancestral homes. Seem logical to me - that taxation should be based on actual prices paid and not on some theoretical numbers which do not apply to a particular property.

US system is meant to keep the property ownership turn over high, which in turn allows the tax offices to collect more property tax from more people. But at a cost of big disruption for long time residents who are forced to sell. I often hear a complaint from the elderly in my area that they pay more in annual real estate tax today than they paid for the house 40 years ago. That is just so wrong on all levels.

Florida seems to have this right, with limits on how much someone's tax value can go up in any given year.

That way if someone buys new in an expensive neighborhood, they knew the tax man cometh. And someone who has been there for a while gets some break, but eventually their taxes will catch up and be based on the market value.

And no, someone shouldn't be completely immune from tax increases because they've had a home for 50 years. Because if that were the case, everyone would just be inheriting homes (or leaving them in grandma's name) to avoid taxes forever.

You're taxed on the value, and that's the way it should be. If you're living in a neighborhood that is so desirable that the taxes have gone up, there should be some ways to provide relief to the long-term occupant, but it shouldn't be so disconnected from reality that people who don't qualify are tempted to exploit it.

Nobody likes to pay taxes. Nobody. But there does need to be a way for people to pay taxes, and people with more assets can afford to pay more than their fair share so that people who can't afford it get subsidized.

So the young couple with four kids is generally getting subsidized by the elderly couple with the bigger house in order to get the kids educated.
letsgetsailing3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-02-2020, 06:55   #389
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,853
Re: Substandard Housing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
There's lots of value in a stable community.
So new people coming into a community doesn't add value?

Stability isn't the same as stagnation.
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-02-2020, 07:03   #390
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 10,071
Re: Substandard Housing

Quote:
Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3 View Post
I guess we should tax private universities, too.
I'm surprised they're not already. Had to check. Of course private universities should be taxed, the same way other private institutions (like churches) should be taxed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3 View Post
Yet some folk think taxpayers should directly pay everyone's tuition, and also pay any debts from people who still owe on their student loans.
Those are different issues.
__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WTB Volvo MD7B Thermostat Housing Morning Glory Classifieds Archive 0 14-11-2009 23:08
bell housing mercruiser cutbrain Propellers & Drive Systems 0 29-03-2009 08:59
EDSON Instrument housing for sale fourgeau Classifieds Archive 0 13-10-2008 09:22

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:01.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.