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Old 22-02-2020, 12:42   #241
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Re: Substandard Housing

Here's a thought; since most of these people are poor, how about increasing supports and moving the minimum wage to a living wage? That would go a long way to addressing the "scum," both on sea and on land.


Oh wait ... that's way to hard. Much easier to tighten various vagrancy laws, and send the police in to crack some heads. Push them out so we can't see them. And then all of us on the right side of the economic fence can rest easier, not having to think about those scum.
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Old 22-02-2020, 12:51   #242
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Re: Substandard Housing

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I agree. So whatís the solution?
Sadly, I don't have one. I do know that the government's involvement will not be good.

I also think that the problem will only get worse. As many old boats value gets close to zero, some people will view them as cheap housing. And marina prices only keep going up. Anchorages will only get more junkers and many of those will end up as official derelicts.
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Old 22-02-2020, 12:53   #243
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Re: Substandard Housing

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Here's a thought; since most of these people are poor, how about increasing supports and moving the minimum wage to a living wage? That would go a long way to addressing the "scum," both on sea and on land.


Oh wait ... that's way to hard. Much easier to tighten various vagrancy laws, and send the police in to crack some heads. Push them out so we can't see them. And then all of us on the right side of the economic fence can rest easier, not having to think about those scum.
but that's not the real issue.

remove all those poor people and they'll just raise the bar on who they want gone. that woodland hills guy doesn't even have a professional crew to drive his boat. he's unsafe and what if it goes wrong. get him out of my sunset view as well.

you will NEVER get those type of people to accept those below them.
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Old 22-02-2020, 13:10   #244
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Re: Substandard Housing

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Originally Posted by dwedeking2 View Post
but that's not the real issue.

remove all those poor people and they'll just raise the bar on who they want gone. that woodland hills guy doesn't even have a professional crew to drive his boat. he's unsafe and what if it goes wrong. get him out of my sunset view as well.

you will NEVER get those type of people to accept those below them.
Wow, you're even more cynical than I -- I didn't think that was possible .

I dunno... I think if people achieve the "non-scum" level, a lot fewer of the gentry will complain. You can't please all the people all the time, but you can please most of the people some of the time.
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Old 22-02-2020, 13:16   #245
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Re: Substandard Housing

[QUOTE=Mike OReilly;3079956]Here's a thought; since most of these people are poor, how about increasing supports and moving the minimum wage to a living wage? That would go a long way to addressing the "scum," both on sea and on land.
Our efforts to fight poverty are often based on the misconception that poor people must pull themselves up out of the mire. But the relentless struggle to make ends meet has serious effects on the brain.

Poverty is not a lack of character Ė itís a lack of cash.
More ➥ https://thecorrespondent.com/283/pov...33638-a4773584

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Old 22-02-2020, 13:27   #246
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Re: Substandard Housing

I am going to have to unsubscribe to this thread i started now that it has gone down the rabbit hole
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Old 22-02-2020, 13:29   #247
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Re: Substandard Housing

Come on Don, stay for the fun............
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Old 22-02-2020, 14:00   #248
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Re: Substandard Housing

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If he violates zoning codes then sure there’s a problem, if not then I guess he has the right to do what he wants. That’s why it’s important to read the restrictions before purchasing property.
I don’t think having a boat with a dirty bottom and stuff stored on the side decks makes it a derelict but if it does there are laws to remedy that.
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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Here's a thought; since most of these people are poor, how about increasing supports and moving the minimum wage to a living wage? That would go a long way to addressing the "scum," both on sea and on land.


Oh wait ... that's way to hard. Much easier to tighten various vagrancy laws, and send the police in to crack some heads. Push them out so we can't see them. And then all of us on the right side of the economic fence can rest easier, not having to think about those scum.
Certainly the fact that lower middle and working class wages have declined in inflation adjusted terms since the 1970’s has had a huge effect on homelessness everywhere. As has the shifting of income, percentage wise, to the professional and financial classes raising housing costs everywhere.

Increasing the minimum wage would have the effect of increasing wages all down the line. In 1968 the Federal minimum was was equal to $10.90 in today’s dollars as opposed to the $7.25 it is today.

Returning to a level of unionization seen in the Eisenhower era would also have the effect of raising wages for working people.

We could also get rid of the community bias against multi-family housing, apartments, that so drastically limits the supply of housing and keeps prices so high.

All of this would simply be a return to the Good Old Days of the 1950’s when the economy seemed to work for the many and not the few. I do not recall anyone calling Dwight Eisenhower and Harry Truman commies nor does anyone think that 1950’s America was a socialist hellhole. Quite the opposite, in fact......
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Old 22-02-2020, 14:02   #249
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Re: Substandard Housing

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Come on Don, stay for the fun............
The fun mostly has been sucked out
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Old 22-02-2020, 14:14   #250
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Re: Substandard Housing

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living aboard is fundamentally camping on the water regardless of size. It can be fun for a while but itís still camping
Absolute rubbish, where do you get that idea. No I don't have 10,000 sq ft of space or jacuzzis or a swimming pool but it is not camping.
I have been a livaboard a since 2006 on a 31ft boat and no my boat is not covered in green slim, rotting blue tarps and rusty bicycles.
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Old 22-02-2020, 14:16   #251
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Re: Substandard Housing

I've been managing a production shop here in key west (keys is where this conversation started). key west is an extreme example of the differences between haves and have nots.

I'm not sure money is the solution to homelessness.

to get applicants that are not violent felons or at the bottom we have to have a starting rate of $18 an hour. with that I've had employees fall apart after 3 months. before coming to key west I've managed people for 20 years and never seen this.

had one employee at $18 an hour who chose sleeping on the street vs a half way house. college educated.
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Old 22-02-2020, 14:26   #252
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Re: Substandard Housing

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Originally Posted by dwedeking2 View Post
I've been managing a production shop here in key west (keys is where this conversation started). key west is an extreme example of the differences between haves and have nots.

I'm not sure money is the solution to homelessness.

to get applicants that are not violent felons or at the bottom we have to have a starting rate of $18 an hour. with that I've had employees fall apart after 3 months. before coming to key west I've managed people for 20 years and never seen this.

had one employee at $18 an hour who chose sleeping on the street vs a half way house. college educated.
Thatís due to Continental Tilt: everyone who is a little loose rolls down to the lower right corner of the country.
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Old 22-02-2020, 14:39   #253
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Re: Substandard Housing

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Originally Posted by Woodland Hills View Post
Certainly the fact that lower middle and working class wages have declined in inflation adjusted terms since the 1970’s has had a huge effect on homelessness everywhere. As has the shifting of income, percentage wise, to the professional and financial classes raising housing costs everywhere.

Increasing the minimum wage would have the effect of increasing wages all down the line. In 1968 the Federal minimum was was equal to $10.90 in today’s dollars as opposed to the $7.25 it is today.

Returning to a level of unionization seen in the Eisenhower era would also have the effect of raising wages for working people.

We could also get rid of the community bias against multi-family housing, apartments, that so drastically limits the supply of housing and keeps prices so high.

All of this would simply be a return to the Good Old Days of the 1950’s when the economy seemed to work for the many and not the few. I do not recall anyone calling Dwight Eisenhower and Harry Truman commies nor does anyone think that 1950’s America was a socialist hellhole. Quite the opposite, in fact......

Unionization doesn't play well with globalization. It sends jobs overseas.

The reason the 1950's were the good old days was that the U.S. had the only intact production center after WWII destroyed those in Europe and Asia. Again, what worked then wouldn't work now.

The fact is that if you let capitalism work, the invisible hand will raise salaries. I know it doesn't seem like that right now, but sometimes it pays to not interfere with it too much. Low unemployment should result in higher salaries if the government doesn't try and muck it up.
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Old 22-02-2020, 14:40   #254
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Re: Substandard Housing

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That’s due to Continental Tilt: everyone who is a little loose rolls down to the lower right corner of the country.
Have ya SEEN California? There are plenty of loose marbles out there.
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Old 22-02-2020, 14:42   #255
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Re: Substandard Housing

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Originally Posted by dwedeking2 View Post
I've been managing a production shop here in key west (keys is where this conversation started). key west is an extreme example of the differences between haves and have nots.

I'm not sure money is the solution to homelessness.

to get applicants that are not violent felons or at the bottom we have to have a starting rate of $18 an hour. with that I've had employees fall apart after 3 months. before coming to key west I've managed people for 20 years and never seen this.

had one employee at $18 an hour who chose sleeping on the street vs a half way house. college educated.

Key West and places like it are anomalies, though, right? Popular, touristy, hard to find reasonably-priced accomodation... so not a typical labour or housing market.
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