State & local govt have no authority in harbors

[Madehn]

Well of course the state govt is involved. They need somewhere to do practice low level flights with their black helicopters. 😀😀😀. I must be doing something wrong, I’m so darn busy on boat projects that I don’t have time to stay caught up on all of the current conspiracy theories. Maybe we should have a permanent category devoted to that topic so we could all go to a single space to choose our particular flavor of theory.

[Indolent58]

The OP’s argument would have been more persuasive if it had been all CAPS.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by Madehn

Well of course the state govt is involved. They need somewhere to do practice low level flights with their black helicopters. 😀😀😀. I must be doing something wrong, I’m so darn busy on boat projects that I don’t have time to stay caught up on all of the current conspiracy theories. Maybe we should have a permanent category devoted to that topic so we could all go to a single space to choose our particular flavor of theory.

Wise approach. You might enjoy this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birds_Aren't_Real

[gs41escapade]

Originally Posted by Montanan

California was an independent republic and did not become a state within the USA until September 9, 1950
[/B]

Typo - 1850

[Pcpete]

Uh, California joined the Union as a Free State September 9, 1950

[seacap]

Originally Posted by Montanan

The Constitution of the State of California October 13, 1849

California was an independent republic and did not become a state within the USA until September 9, 1950

ARTICLE XII

BOUNDARY

The Boundary of the State of California shall be as follows:
Commencing at this point of intersection of 42d degree of north latitude with the 120th degree of longitude west from Greenwich, and running south on the line of said 120th degree of west longitude until it intersects the 39th degree of north latitude; thence running in a straight line in a south easterly direction to the River Colorado, at a point where it intersects the 35th degree of north latitude; thence down the middle of the channel of said river, to the boundary line between the United States and Mexico, as established by the Treaty of May 30th, 1848; thence running west and along said boundary line to the Pacific Ocean, and extending therein three English miles; thence running in a northwesterly direction, and following the direction of the Pacific Coast to the 42d degree of north latitude, thence on the line of said 42d degree of north latitude to the place of beginning. Also all the islands, harbors, and bays, along adjacent to the Pacific Coast.

I’m sure it’s just a misprint. But California became a state in 1850, not 1950.

[Ike]

Originally Posted by Lewis Harry

Yes, we went through all this mess on San Diego bay back in the 80s & 90s.
. It is illegal under federal law for local authorities to have a maratime police force. It is illegal to have a Port District who pretends to have authority over their local bay ... to regulate anchoring, build docks especially private docks without federal permission ... which is never asked for, or granted.
All that said, $$$$$$ talks, elected Congressional representitives bribed to look the other way. The state government passes laws saying the local governments can do whatever they want, local state judges put people in prison for exerciseing their federal rights. The lawyers doing everything they can to keep maratime matters OUT of Federal court. And carefully selected Federal judges look the other way and send these cases back to corrupt state courts.
In California the govt says they have authority over the offshore fishing grounds! Totally obscenely illegal under Federal law. But once again, the FIX is in.

As a Coast Guard Officer, I can safely say this is false. There is a concept in jurisdictional law called Joint Jurisdiction, where many agencies, Federal, State and municipal (and sometimes even the County) all have jurisdiction over the area in question, particularly bays, rivers, coastal areas, and some lakes (ones that cross state lines, or are a historical route of commerce, Lake Tahoe is a fine example) However their jurisdiction is limited to those areas of law they have authority to enforce. The old question, where, who, when, what, pertains. For instance the Coast Guard has no authority to enforce state or local laws, but as is authorized by law, may in some instances apprehend someone breaking state laws until state or local authorities arrive. And on the other hand state law enforcement has limited authority to enforce Federal Law and in most instances, none. Witness all the legal arguments about ICE trying to get state and local authorities to turn over illegal immigrants. However to claim local or state authorities have no jurisdiction over San Diego Bay is patently false.

[Madehn]

I would contribute to this one again but I’ve got two suspicious looking pelicans that seem to be shadowing my boat. I’m gonna try to lose them after dark. Do pelican drones have night vision capabilities? 😂😂😂

[GordMay]

If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...
It’s a government [or Canadian soccer team] surveillance drone.

[JBsurfin]

Originally Posted by GordMay

I call 'bull'.
Under what federal statute?

Funny how som nay on this forum as experts in various areas, yet can do a 2 second research.
"While not explicitly stated as "illegal," under federal law, local authorities generally cannot have a fully independent maritime police force due to the primary responsibility of maritime law enforcement being assigned to the U.S. Coast Guard; meaning local authorities can only enforce limited maritime laws within their jurisdiction, usually in conjunction with state agencies and under federal guidelines"

you can find the guidelines, I just set the path.

[JBsurfin]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Incorrect in many facts.

States have always had sovereignty to their coastal, tide lands and inland waters. The States boundaries are outward from shore 3 nautical miles, beyond which US Federal jurisdiction applies.


Florida state waters are a bit unique as they extend from shore to 3 nautical miles on the Atlantic and from shore to 9 nautical miles on the Gulf. Federal waters extend from where state waters end out to about 200 nautical miles or to where other country's waters begin.

States have the authority to delegate their authority to their dependent authorities of counties and municipalities.

"While not explicitly stated as "illegal," under federal law, local authorities generally cannot have a fully independent maritime police force due to the primary responsibility of maritime law enforcement being assigned to the U.S. Coast Guard; meaning local authorities can only enforce limited maritime laws within their jurisdiction, usually in conjunction with state agencies and under federal guidelines"

[captmikem]

Never forget
In California it is a government of the Government, for the Government and by the Government. Unfortunatly this has moved up the coast to include Oregon and Washington as well. LA has expanded to Portland and Seattle.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by Ike

As a Coast Guard Officer, I can safely say this is false. There is a concept in jurisdictional law called Joint Jurisdiction, where many agencies, Federal, State and municipal (and sometimes even the County) all have jurisdiction over the area in question, particularly bays, rivers, coastal areas, and some lakes (ones that cross state lines, or are a historical route of commerce, Lake Tahoe is a fine example) However their jurisdiction is limited to those areas of law they have authority to enforce. The old question, where, who, when, what, pertains. For instance the Coast Guard has no authority to enforce state or local laws, but as is authorized by law, may in some instances apprehend someone breaking state laws until state or local authorities arrive. And on the other hand state law enforcement has limited authority to enforce Federal Law and in most instances, none. Witness all the legal arguments about ICE trying to get state and local authorities to turn over illegal immigrants. However to claim local or state authorities have no jurisdiction over San Diego Bay is patently false.

It can be even more confusing that you say.

Back in the 1980's there was a push in Florida over the word "navigable" and its meaning. There were arguments that the south Florida water management districts, aka, the Everglades, were "navigable" and thus the USCG could enforce some laws in that part of Florida. The definition of "navigable" was mixed up with trade. The argument I heard was that one could pole a canoe across the Everglades carrying trade goods, so the Everglades was navigable.

I can't remember why there was this push, if I ever knew the reason, but I suspect it was to enforce some Federal environmental laws in the Everglades.

One of the other jurisdictional issues in the Everglades back then was the State, the Indian reservation governments, and Federal law. Could non Indian laws be applied and enforce by non Indian law enforcement? The courts eventually decided that only the Indian law enforcement agencies could enforce THEIR law. The local, state, or Federal governments could not enforce their laws on the Indian reservation. It took years for the decision to be reached, and in the meantime, some Florida agencies were patrolling Indian land.

Having said that, I know that at least one Indian reservation, and I suspect others did as well, had agreements with local law enforcement to provide mutual support.

At the time, Florida had two agencies enforcing boating and wildlife laws. The Florida Freshwater Game and Fish Commission, aka The GFC and the Florida Marine Patrol, aka, the FMP, were the two agencies that had very similar operations. The FMP covered salt water and the GFC, per the name, fresh water and land. The GFC would patrol the ICW and I think the FMP did as well, so there was a bit of overlap. The FMP was mostly concerned with off shore, aka, marine, jurisdiction. Eventually, there was a Florida constitutional amendment to merge the two agencies.

Florida state agencies were sworn in as Federal Marshals to help with actual and anticipated inflows of illegal aliens. So the State officers would have been enforcing Federal Laws. Local law enforcement might have been sworn it too but I can't remember if they were but State officers were sworn in.

Law enforcement jurisdiction is as clear as the dirty water pumped off of the sugar cane fields.....

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by JBsurfin

"While not explicitly stated as "illegal," under federal law, local authorities generally cannot have a fully independent maritime police force due to the primary responsibility of maritime law enforcement being assigned to the U.S. Coast Guard; meaning local authorities can only enforce limited maritime laws within their jurisdiction, usually in conjunction with state agencies and under federal guidelines"

FYI: Exemplary Snipets of California law.

STATE OF CALIFORNIA
California Natural Resources Agency
California State Parks
DIVISION OF BOATING AND WATERWAYS

The guide titled: "ABCs of California Boating" is based upon the California Harbors and Navigation Code, Vehicle Code, Penal Code, and California Code of Regulations

OPERATIONAL LAW
Peace Officers
Every peace officer of the state, city, county, harbor district or other political
subdivision of the state is empowered to enforce California boating law. These officers have the authority to stop and board any vessel where they have probable cause to believe that a violation of law exists.
Peace officers are also authorized to order the operator of an unsafe vessel to shore. Your vessel can be ordered to the nearest safe moorage if an unsafe condition is found that cannot be corrected on the spot and if the officer determines that continued operation would be dangerous.
Any vessel approaching, overtaking, being approached, or being overtaken by
a moving law enforcement vessel operating with a siren or an illuminated blue light, or any vessel approaching a stationary law enforcement vessel displaying an illuminated blue light, shall:

Immediately slow to a speed sufficient to maintain steerage only.
Alter its course, within its ability, so as not to inhibit or interfere with operation of the law enforcement vessel.
Proceed, unless otherwise directed by the law enforcement vessel operator, at
the reduced speed until beyond the law enforcement vessel’s area of operation.

Mandatory Boater Education Requirements
The California State Parks Division of Boating and Waterways (DBW) recommends that all recreational boaters take a state-approved boating safety course. These courses are listed on the DBW website under “Safety and Education” and “Aquatic Centers.”
Beginning on January 1, 2018, recreational power boat operators who are
aged 20 and younger shall be required to carry a boater education card.
Once issued by DBW, the California Boater Card remains valid for a boat
operator’s lifetime. DBW will issue the cards to persons who provide proof that an approved vessel operator examination has been passed since January 1, 2015.
Approved courses may be found online at www.CaliforniaBoaterCard.com.
The California Boater Card requirement will be phased in over the next
several years based on operator age:


WATERWAY MARKINGS
Federal Lateral System
U.S. waterways are marked for safe navigation by the lateral system of buoyage.
The system uses a simple arrangement of colors, shapes, numbers and light characteristics to show the side on which a buoy should be passed when proceeding in a given direction. The characteristics are determined by the buoy’s position with respect to the navigable channels as the channels are entered from seaward.

Uniform State Waterway Marking System
Most waterways used by California boaters are located entirely within the boundaries of the state. The California Uniform State Waterway Marking System has been devised for these waters.


County and City Laws
In addition to state law, many counties, cities and districts have special laws or ordinances that restrict activities in certain areas, prohibit certain acts at certain times or establish additional requirements. These ordinances may regulate speed, set aside specific areas or hours for special purposes, and prohibit acts that are contrary to public interest. Boaters must comply with these local rules as well as with state law. Check with your local waterway operator for special laws or ordinances in your area.


Age Restrictions
No person under 16 years of age may operate a boat with a motor of more than 15 horsepower, except for a sailboat that does not exceed 30 feet in length or a dinghy used directly between a moored boat and the shore (or between two moored boats). The law allows children 12–15 years of age to operate boats with a motor of more than 15 horsepower or sailboats over 30 feet if supervised on board by an adult at least 18 years of age who is in possession of a California Boater Card as required by law. Violating these provisions constitutes an infraction.


Speed
Speed is limited by law for certain conditions and areas.
The maximum speed for motorboats within 100 feet of a bather (but not a water skier) and within 200 feet of a bathing beach, swimming float, diving platform or lifeline, passenger landing being used, or landing where boats are tied up is 5 miles per hour.
A safe speed should be maintained at all times so that: (1) action can be taken to avoid collision; and (2) your boat can stop within a distance appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions. In restricted visibility, motorboats should have the engines ready for immediate maneuvering. You should be prepared to stop the vessel within the space of half the distance of forward visibility.


Operation of a Vessel While Intoxicated
Alcohol is a factor in about 50 percent of all fatal motorboat accidents in California.
State law specifies that:
1. No person shall operate any vessel, water skis or similar device while under the influence of intoxicating liquor or drugs. No person who is addicted to any drug shall operate any vessel, water skis or similar device.

any vessel, water skis or similar device who has 0.08
percent or more, by weight, of alcohol in his or her
blood. A level of at least 0.05 percent, but less than
0.08 percent, may be used with other evidence in
determining whether the person was under the
influence of alcohol. A person under 21 years of age
or older who has been arrested for operating a
mechanically propelled vessel “under the influence”
may be requested to submit to a chemical test to
determine blood-alcohol content. A person convicted
of operating a vessel while intoxicated could receive
up to a $1,000 fine and six months in jail.

3. No person under 21 years of age may operate
a vessel, water skis or similar device who has 0.01
percent or more of alcohol in his or her blood by
weight. Penalties may include a fine of up to $250
and participation in an alcohol education or community service program.


Reasonable and Prudent Operation: Under California law, no person shall operate
any craft in a reckless or negligent manner so as to endanger the life, limb or property
of any individual. Some examples are:
Navigating a vessel, skis or other devices between a towing vessel and its tow or tows.
Operating under the influence of intoxicants or narcotics.
Jumping or attempting to jump the wake of another vessel within 100 feet of the other vessel, which constitutes unsafe operation.
Note: Other actions that constitute unsafe operation include: (1) operating a PWC toward any person or vessel in the water and turning sharply so as to spray the person or vessel; and (2) operating at a rate of speed and in proximity to another vessel so that either operator is required to swerve at the last minute to avoid collision. A free PWC Course can be taken online at: www.dbw.ca.gov/BoaterInfo/PWCOnline

Boating Accident Reporting Requirements:

The operator of every recreational vessel is required by Section 656 of the Harbors and Navigation Code to file a written report whenever a boating accident occurs which results in death, disappearance, injury that
requires medical attention beyond first aid, total property damage in excess of $500, or complete loss of a vessel. Reports must be submitted within 48 hours in case of death occurring within 24 hours of an
accident, disappearance, or injury beyond first aid. All other reports must be submitted within 10 days of the accident. Reports are to be submitted to California State Parks Division of Boating and Waterways,
Accident Unit at P.O. Box 942896, Sacramento, California 94296-0001, (916) 327-1826. Failure to submit this report as required is a misdemeanor and is punishable by a fine not to exceed $1000 or imprisonment
not to exceed 6 months or both.


Accident Reporting
Boat operators involved in an accident must: (1) provide their name, address and vessel registration number to other involved parties; (2) render assistance to any injured people; and (3) in case of a death or disappearance, report the accident
without delay to law enforcement officials.
Boat operators or owners must also make a written report of a boating accident to DBW within 48 hours when:

A person dies within 24 hours of the accident, disappears, or is injured and
requires medical treatment beyond first aid.
Total damage to all vessels involved and other property is more than $500 or
there is complete loss of a vessel.
In all other incidents requiring a written accident report, the report must be made within 10 days of the accident. Failure to comply with the above requirements is punishable by a fine of up to $1,000 or imprisonment up to six months, or both.

[slipaway]

Originally Posted by JBsurfin

Funny how som nay on this forum as experts in various areas, yet can do a 2 second research.
"While not explicitly stated as "illegal," under federal law, local authorities generally cannot have a fully independent maritime police force...."

I am not sure what is meant by "fully independent maritime police force". Independent from what? Local authorities are fully able to independently enforce state and local laws without any additional authorities from anyone. Can they enforce federal laws, not normally, but that has nothing to do with their independence. Of course the state/local laws cannot contravene Federal law when there is also federal jurisdiction, but state law can be more or less restrictive when there is jurisdiction to do so. Local marine police agencies need no connection to the USCG to enforce local/state law.