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Old 27-06-2017, 13:39   #61
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Re: Stacked washer/dryer takes 4 sq feet...worth it?

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Be careful with US 220 volt washers and driers.


Years ago I was living in Spain and an American couple tried to wire their US sourced 220V drier and washer into the Spanish 240V supply, it kept kicking out the protective breaker in the apartment supply panel. We found that the appliances contained both 110 and 220 volt components and the three pin plug was wired with 2 110 volt lives and a neutral. The Spanish system also has 3 pin plugs however these include a 240 volt live, a neutral and an earth.
I also thought about that....those different voltages are really an issue.
But there are more issues. I also donīt trust the quality of instalations of the marinas and those current spikes can do a lot of damage.
They only solution that I found till now to avoid this headache is to run the whole boat straight form an inverter. Thatīs kind of plug and play. I donīt like to touch the factory wiring if I can avoid it. That always creates extra problems. If worse comes to worse there is the little Honda 2000i that I can plug in direct and for shore power I would prefere a good charger. That way everything is supported by the batteries and stable.
The only problem I see is the AC. I might need a soft start and I have to beef up the inverter and the Lithium bank but I absolutly donīt want a fixed generator.
First reason is the weight, the second and third is cost and maintanance.
Those little generators are great. With 50 Lbs, together with a high output alternator and a Lithium bank and now a washing machine with only 25Lbs. I save myself a big junk of weight compared to the clasic solutions. Yes there is the issue with the gasoline on board but with the outboard of the dinghy that is not much extra. I rather have that weight capacity for provisions and extra fuel that I can distribute and balance the boat.Of course a lot of solar panels with the racks for installation also have a weight but I love the easy maintanance energy.
I am dreaming of keeping the performance aspects of the boat but donīt want to miss the comfort.......
Hahaha yeah, and with a reasonable budget.
Of course there are still a few loose ends in my system.....

But Thxs for the advise, Cheers

Yeah just realized...now I am the bad guy with the tech mambo jambo Sorry

To the question: Stacked washer/dryer ?
I think there are better solution
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Old 27-06-2017, 13:42   #62
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Re: Stacked washer/dryer takes 4 sq feet...worth it?

Biggest issue with the little genny is CO danger.

Should really run on the dingy away a ways from your boat.
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Old 27-06-2017, 14:51   #63
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Re: Stacked washer/dryer takes 4 sq feet...worth it?

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Biggest issue with the little genny is CO danger.

Should really run on the dingy away a ways from your boat.
Yeah, that is an issue that I am still cracking, specially when the current in the water and the wind donīt come from the same dirrection
The idea that this can happen at night while I am sleeping does not make me happy.
I will have to get creative.Till now I think of some type of flex tubing that adapts to the wind and maybe together with a portable box for noise reduction somewhere strapped to the transom.
I would also be crazy enough to invent something to hang it somehow with the halyard up the mast and using the track of the main sail
I donīt like the idea of the dingy so much. There is the problem with the rain and since the Honda is my last source for emergncy it bothers me. The other day I saw a Youtube of a company putting an electric starter on a Honda 2000i. I was impressed. They also sell all kinds of accessories to handle the exaust gases.
Also one day in one of my crazy brain storms I thought of using Lithium and electric propulsion for the dingy and as a range extender using the Honda gen.... and installing it a little more fixed and protected on the dingy.
The lithiums get charged by all the other sources....I can use them as additional energy storage while cruising.... and when I have an emergency I can plug the boat into the generator on the dingy. Yes, sounds good at first sight.. I get rid of all the outboard problems... But how to have reliable access to the Honda when the dinghy is hanging on the davids ???

Well, but than I thought I have enough problems....why create more ?.... I wanna get on the water and cruising .....
Hahaha Yeah, and if I canīt resist my lack for tinkering anymore, for a project like that there is always time on the way.

Thxs for the concern, Cheers
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Old 27-06-2017, 15:07   #64
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Re: Stacked washer/dryer takes 4 sq feet...worth it?

Overthinking.

Just run in the dingy while you're awake when it isn't raining.

Bank should be sized to go 2 full days use without charging.
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Old 27-06-2017, 15:48   #65
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Re: Stacked washer/dryer takes 4 sq feet...worth it?

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Hahaha seems the menu of the laundromats comes with certain spices.
I think that is a very reasonable price and effort for a nice element of comfort on board and it does not require a generator.
Now it even makes more sense to have a watermaker on board.
Good smelling sheets and good taste in the drinking water... thatīs a bliss

However those watermakers are still a nut to crack for me and I am not happy with the situation. Eighter they use a lot of energy and a genset is required or the little wonder needs to run a lot of hours to keep up with the demand. Of course there are the newer types with energy regeneration like the Spectra that is more efficient but the price tag is a scandal. I look at the the parts and the technology envolved and than 6-8000$ for the whole pack. I am surprized they donīt wanna charge me for just looking. Yes, and than all the obligating aftermarket business.That seems like a lot of abuse for the precious element to me and I am not willing to accept that reality without a little fight for my hard earned dollars.
470 Lagoon.. I am jealous. Thatīs awesome space for everything.
Easy 1000W solar and weight is not such much an issue anymore.
Hahaha lets see how I can squeeze it all in a 35 foot cat.....
Funny, by square feet I have more than plenty of space but I loose it with the extra 2 double berths that I donīt need and even an owners version wonīt change that.

Hahaha, someone elses size 60 underwear
My fears are more moderate.
I am happy if I donīt loose my pants))) Cheers
I've heard a report of a Spectra making about 1/2 of its rated output. Sailing Emerald Steel and LaVagabond both have watermaker videos on their youtube channel. Emerald Steel made their own at a huge savings but he is more than extremely handy.

I have sold and installed r/o units for freshwater. The principle is the same but the pressure is 800-900 instead of 45-100. Who knows, perhaps I evolve into a watermaker guru since I am halfway there via my freshwater experience.
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Old 27-06-2017, 17:31   #66
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Re: Stacked washer/dryer takes 4 sq feet...worth it?

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Accomblice You write.....All it seems to do is heat the clothes. If it isn't raining, putting the (washed) clothes on the lifelines is a much better solution.
I come to the same conclusion and heating also takes a lot of power
I asume You are spinning to kind of semi dry before ????

You have to run the genset....Yes the Indesit is a real power hog but at least You have a bigger boat and the space. I have only two small double berths that are useless for my plans and there is no other decent space on the boat where I could hide a washing machine in an estetic way. So only solution is portable and top loading
I am in planning and I want to get by with only solar if possible. My second source is the high output alternator.
And a little Honda for emergency. I can fix it myself and get spares everywhere
I also have issues with the weight. Over loaded Cats donīt sail so well. Those machines only way around 30 Lbs
The washer's spin cycle gets them as dry as I could get by wringing them. A few minutes on the line after that and they're dry.

You list many reasons for not dedicating space to a washer/dryer. I suggest cruising for a while and if you find you need a washer you can always add one later. If you find you don't miss not having one, you've saved yourself the trouble, the cost, the weight, etc.

We have a washer/dryer, and the power and water for it, and the space for it, and it is still not a slam-dunk that I would want one on my next boat or would replace it if it died (I already replaced it when we got the boat).
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Old 27-06-2017, 19:04   #67
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Re: Stacked washer/dryer takes 4 sq feet...worth it?

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The washer's spin cycle gets them as dry as I could get by wringing them. A few minutes on the line after that and they're dry.

You list many reasons for not dedicating space to a washer/dryer. I suggest cruising for a while and if you find you need a washer you can always add one later. If you find you don't miss not having one, you've saved yourself the trouble, the cost, the weight, etc.

We have a washer/dryer, and the power and water for it, and the space for it, and it is still not a slam-dunk that I would want one on my next boat or would replace it if it died (I already replaced it when we got the boat).
I list many reason for having a portable! top loader! spin cycle!! washing machine. With the cost of 1-200$, low weight and power consumption I guess there is not much that can go wrong under my circumstances.

With aprox. 450 - 500 sq feet (40 - 50m3 ) I also have plenty of space on a 35īcatamaran. We are only a cruising couple.
But unfortunatly by design features of a catamaran I can not use this space the way I want. With the boats I have in mind I always end up loosing the space of 2 double berths or in case of an owners version I loose the space of the other hull.
However I donīt want to miss certain comfort on board. For that I need to use the space I canīt use as efficient as posible without negative side effects to the boat and without mayor boat works.
Sufficient energy with todays solar tech I donīt consider a luxory on board anymore and auto pilot and modern navigation divices a mayor improvment for safety. For me a watermaker is also not only more covenience. It gives me more range and time before I have to go to the next marina. AC might be a reason for arguments. However I believe in certain climate zones itīs an absolute must have.

I agree the cloths can be washed by hand but to consider it a luxory item I better not discuss the topic with my girlfriend and specially not when it costs such little efforts and money with the rest of the equipment on board.
I love a good smell on board and her too.....
For sure I will not miss the washing machine but I will miss the fresh and good smelling sheets..........

Mmm Yeah, and most of all
I love it when the captain is in a sweet mood
Cheers
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Old 27-06-2017, 22:21   #68
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Re: Stacked washer/dryer takes 4 sq feet...worth it?

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I've heard a report of a Spectra making about 1/2 of its rated output. Sailing Emerald Steel and LaVagabond both have watermaker videos on their youtube channel. Emerald Steel made their own at a huge savings but he is more than extremely handy.

I have sold and installed r/o units for freshwater. The principle is the same but the pressure is 800-900 instead of 45-100. Who knows, perhaps I evolve into a watermaker guru since I am halfway there via my freshwater experience.
Yes, I also have heard about the rumors on the performance of the Spectra. But on the other side there are also a lot of positive commentaries. So there is a lot of contradictions. I might admit that I would also be the proud owner of a Spectra after paying 6-8000$ for membership card of the club even so there are more promises than delivered results.
However the energy recovery is a good technology and there are positive results. So for the sake of argument..... letīs say the marketing managers always sell the promised land and the realities might be of another world.

I also watched the videos from Emerald steel and LaVagabond with eagle eyes. Further more I researched a little on the high pressure pumps and their maintanance. The vid from SV Catchin`Rays was also interesting to me because he repaired the WM with a standard off the shelve DC 12V electric motor. When looking in depth, most of the high pressure pumps wich are the most expensive mystery element of a WM puzzle, it seems they were designed for high pressure cleaning and the only difference for other applications are the seals and by the most the pistons to adapt to the requiered medium. All the other elements required are off shelf.
So maybe a pressure pump from a pressure washer of Ebay in good shape and than buying a complete maintanace kit for saltwater with all the seals and this pump is like new for peanuts.
The rest ????
The more I observe I ask myself what I need from my watermaker and what it should do and and how it can be done funtionally. Using basic instincts to understand the general principles the fog cleared from my mind. This is not rocket science. Of course the manufactures put an attractive decoration on the pack to obstruct our boaters vision and not without success.....
We are all little boys that like to play with the toys))) Mmmm Yes

But comming back to basic instincts.... maybe I donīt need so many buttons and PC boards and a little rinsing the filter elements with fresh water by hand is no big deal considering the savings and the question of having and have not.
Then the desinfecting (piccling) of the filter elements after a longer period of time not using them might be an issue but to a certain point this time frame can be argued. To my understanding bacteria need oxygen to survive...
and anyhow as a permanent live aboard I will not have this problem.

Then a certain pressure has to be maintained to garanty a stable water quality.... and this water quality is messured and monitored

Hahaha, fresh water adventures))) I believe than You are at least professor. The rest is like opening a bottle of champaign and enter in the kingdom of the WM gurus.
I also have some fresh water experiences with a 4000 gallon installation. I had some brackish water with an exciting mix. Close to the sea there were some salty element in the well, some spices from the neighbourīs inground black water tanks mixed with a high octane cocktail from a big tomato green house and the worse... a lot of calcium and a constant change of the variables due to climate and relation of salt water level in ground.
Correct me if I am wrong, that is a WM dream.
It cost me quiete some time to tune the beast.

Since I am not an expert yet, I hope You donīt mind if I remember our little chat,.... just in case I run into unexpected events trying to open the bottle of champaign............

I think with my current budget and my dreams I will give it some indepth thoughts to overcome my fears and resist the fancy temptation.
Hahaha, I donīt want to irritate the cruising kiddy.
However, if I can pick up a used unit that fits my needs for a cheap price than I will reconsider my position.
The only thing I am afraid of is.... building a bigger unit might be cheaper and than starting the motor could upset my inverter if I go AC.
If I go DC direct, in worse case a little capaciter modul might do the trick to keep the dimension under control.

Thxs for the inspiration....
Using basic instincts the world looks more friendly
MY CAPTAIN SAYS... I LOVE DREAMING
I answered... and when the dreams come true itīs romantic
Cheers
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Old 30-06-2017, 06:40   #69
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Re: Stacked washer/dryer takes 4 sq feet...worth it?

My plunger for bucket washing, it's made from a broken bathroom plunger, an 8 inch diameter piece cut out of a truck mud flap, washer and stainless screw to attach that, a piece of broom handle, pvc T to make the the broom handle into a T handle, plastic hose and 2 hose clamps to attach the PVC T to plunger handle. It works great, much better than standard bathroom plunger for a number of reasons. Larger flat bottom does a better job a squeezing water through more cloth. Longer handle reduces bending at the waist, T handle make it easier to operate.
If I was going to modify it I would make the handle 6 inches taller to absolutely eliminate all bending over while using it. It eliminated most of that now, but there is always improvements to be made on almost everything.
I think the broken plunger part is important to spread the load to the mud flap.
You can see a picture on my website at

http://www.jonheld.mysite.com/photo_3.html
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Old 30-06-2017, 07:04   #70
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Re: Stacked washer/dryer takes 4 sq feet...worth it?

By the way, if you're handy and looking to build a watermaker, the cheapest way to do it is to buy an old, ugly and dead 120v unit (if in the US). You can find them in most used boat parts stores or on eBay. For a hundred or two, you get the membrane housing, pump, brackets,valves and gauges. Rebuild the pump, replace the motor if necessary, add a new membrane, and replace the hoses. Last one I did, I had $600 into a 20gph 120v unit.

Just watch out for the membrane housing length and width.... some used proprietary size and are ridiculously expensive.

Matt
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Old 30-06-2017, 07:30   #71
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Re: Stacked washer/dryer takes 4 sq feet...worth it?

And what do you do with the used and chemicals loaded water ?????

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Old 30-06-2017, 15:09   #72
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Re: Stacked washer/dryer takes 4 sq feet...worth it?

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I also thought about that....those different voltages are really an issue.
But there are more issues. I also donīt trust the quality of instalations of the marinas and those current spikes can do a lot of damage.


Lower voltages at or near the end of the piers are not unheard of, calculating the furthest distance from the supply, but current spikes, what's this ?


https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials...e-and-ohms-law
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Old 30-06-2017, 16:23   #73
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Re: Stacked washer/dryer takes 4 sq feet...worth it?

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By the way, if you're handy and looking to build a watermaker, the cheapest way to do it is to buy an old, ugly and dead 120v unit (if in the US). You can find them in most used boat parts stores or on eBay. For a hundred or two, you get the membrane housing, pump, brackets,valves and gauges. Rebuild the pump, replace the motor if necessary, add a new membrane, and replace the hoses. Last one I did, I had $600 into a 20gph 120v unit.

Just watch out for the membrane housing length and width.... some used proprietary size and are ridiculously expensive.

Matt
Hi Guys, Nice Surprize and Ths for the commentar))
Did not expect to hear from You here in this world)) I enjoy Your visuals
How is boat live ? Hope You win the war against the mosquitos)))))))

Yes, I was considering this option. I think key is finding one with a good pump and than putting in a new kit of seals. A DC motor and going direct to the Lithium pack to avoid posible violations of the inverter. The rest is no headache and a piece of cake, just cleaning/ replacing components and maybe a few minor changes/upgrades along the way.
Sounds like You already had a few adventures. You have recommendations as to what are the best and most reliable high pressure pumps ?
Yes, and how about maintanance and easy to come by spares....$$$$ in remote locations.
Kind of makes me nervois waking up one morning and the precious helper is on strike. Hahaha Yeah, I think that would be like a mayor earthquake for the sweet sensations on board))) I better have some extra spares.
Do You also use the watermaker in brakish water ?
Have no experience with that but I sure would like to just use one source for water and get completly independent from the marinas. The quailty is a variable and in some places water is expensive.
I believe for live aboard a clean and well maintained is the best and to keep the run time down a good size unit depending on capacity of cranking amps.
I wanna have big extra water tank that I drain when sailing to keep down the weight.
Are their any other hidden issues I should think of ?

Thxs again and have fun
Hope You get out of the marina soon

PS: Yes, the house... hope we can sell it soon
Mmm yeah, and flowers for the girl
Will shoot You a line of the sweet moment.... maybe we can meet
Cheers
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Old 30-06-2017, 16:41   #74
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Re: Stacked washer/dryer takes 4 sq feet...worth it?

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And what do you do with the used and chemicals loaded water ?????

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Old 30-06-2017, 17:05   #75
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Re: Stacked washer/dryer takes 4 sq feet...worth it?

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Lower voltages at or near the end of the piers are not unheard of, calculating the furthest distance from the supply, but current spikes, what's this ?


https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials...e-and-ohms-law
Sorry, I meant voltage spikes.....

I guess my mind was some place else

The effects of big party cruisers in the neighbourhood..... yeah, that old transformer should have been upgraded a long time ago
I have seen variations of up to +/- 20% and the owners of the appliance stores walked around with a smile on their face
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