St Brendan's Isle - FL requirements

[meridian28]

We will be leaving Michigan this summer on The Loop. We are selling everything and will use St Brendan’s Isle as our permanent address.

For those that have done this I have some questions.

When you changed your permanent address did you:
a. Immediately change your boat state registration?
b. Immediately change your USCG documentation papers?
c. Immediately change your driver’s license?
d. Immediately change your insurance?

Anything else I need to consider? Can I delay any of the above?

[Kettlewell]

I have used St. Brendan's just for the mailing service part (very good), and kept all my other papers registered to an address of a relative that I trusted. The main reason to change everything is if you never intend on returning to your old home and you want to definitively escape the taxes and regulations of your old home. Many states will assume you are still domiciled there if you maintain a driver's license, property, etc., in the old state, and they can be very aggressive about trying to collect if you have significant income or assets. It is a real pain, and expensive, to change all these things if you think you might return there in say 3 to 5 years, and then have to change everything back. Myself, I found my income was so low when out cruising that income tax isn't really an issue. Florida doesn't have income tax, but they make up for it with high fees and other sorts of charges. Don't automatically assume you will come out better in one state or another in terms of taxes until you check out your own individual situation. For example, it is something like $400-$500 in fees for the first time registration on a car in Florida, in addition to the sales tax.

[jstevens]

I started using SBI in 2005 and at the same time changed my residency from MD to FL. My response in answer to your questions:

a. I didn't change my boat registration from MD to FL until 2011. At that time I was spending more time in FL than MD. If you are not keeping your boat in a different state than it is currently registered for more than 3 months there is usually no reason to change your registration. This is a local issue, mostly driven by staying in a marina for an extended period of time. If you are doing the loop and will keep moving you should not need to be concerned about your boat registration.

b.You will need to update your USCG documentation with your SBI mailing address. As long as you don't change the hailing port of the vessel you shouldn't need to make any other changes in your documentation.

c. I did change my driver's license at the same time I changed my residence to FL. Since I left FL for Europe within a few months I'm not sure this was necessary. I just felt it would help if my driver's license and residence were in the same state.

d. I changed my boat insurance at the same time only because I was heading off-shore and my existing insurance was not the best option for that type of sailing.

John

[djmarchand]

I would change my driver's license, open a bank account, file my income tax return, etc from Florida to be able to prove Florida residency. Boat insurance is more a matter of cruising limits than where you get your bill, which will be SBI. Boat registration depends on the time you stay in each state. If less than three months you generally don't have to do anything.

David

[Kettlewell]

If less than three months you generally don't have to do anything.

Except in Florida. They require all boats to have a state registration from someplace, even if they are CG documented. IMHO you might want to think of it from the perspective of where you think you might end up spending the most time, even if you want to keep on the move mostly. For a lot of fulltime cruisers Florida and SBI make a lot of sense for that, but if you plan on mostly hanging out in the Chesapeake it will be easier to choose Maryland or Virginia in order to be able to get things like your driver's license renewed, etc. I have found it is handy to have some trusted person at your actual address who can handle the odd things that come up--like an IRS notice when you are in the Bahamas.

[JanetGroene]

Kettlewell makes a good point about Florida's high fees versus no state income tax. If income is a consideration, look into what constitutes "income" in various states. Some pensions including Social Security are not taxed in some states or are taxed at a lower level.

[SVNeko]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Except in Florida. They require all boats to have a state registration from someplace, even if they are CG documented.

This is news to me. Are you saying that if you are passing through in a documented-only boat, the Fla authorities will try to get you to register there? California does not require registration for documented boats, and it would seem odd for Fla to exert jurisdiction over a boat passing through its waters. This also contradicts my reading of the Fla. registration requirements.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by SVNeko

This is news to me. Are you saying that if you are passing through in a documented-only boat, the Fla authorities will try to get you to register there? California does not require registration for documented boats, and it would seem odd for Fla to exert jurisdiction over a boat passing through its waters. This also contradicts my reading of the Fla. registration requirements.

Here's one of many posts on various forums about the Florida requirements. John may be able to point you to one on this board.

I'll Never go to Florida Again - SailboatOwners.com

[Kettlewell]

Here's another discussion of Florida law.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by SVNeko

This is news to me. Are you saying that if you are passing through in a documented-only boat, the Fla authorities will try to get you to register there? California does not require registration for documented boats, and it would seem odd for Fla to exert jurisdiction over a boat passing through its waters. This also contradicts my reading of the Fla. registration requirements.

Not just FL. I believe most of the states on the east coast have the same policy. I know RI required state registration as well as FL.

[Kettlewell]

Not just FL. I believe most of the states on the east coast have the same policy. I know RI required state registration as well as FL.

Actually, quite a few don't require you to state register a documented boat you keep in the state. I know that Maine, Massachusetts, North Carolina, and South Carolina do not require state registration for documented vessels. However, all other states, as far as I can tell, allow visitors from out of state some sort of grace period--most offer 90 days--before you are required to register. Florida only offers 90 days reciprocity if you have a state registration from some other state. I contacted the FWC about this and they confirmed it, and it is what they say on their website.

[SVNeko]

Wow, that suprises me. I never understood why the federal documentation system did not preempt the various state registration schemes. It seems to me a perfect situation for the preemption doctrine.

[denverd0n]

Let's note, once again, that we have no documented cases of anyone being immediately ticketed upon entering Florida without state registration from somewhere else. There is one, particularly zealous (some might say over-zealous), officer in SW Florida who will give you a warning. You will then have two weeks to register your boat, or move on. I have not heard of anyone else, anywhere else, even giving out warnings.

So, it's not like they're going to be waiting for you at the border, demanding that you immediately register your boat or face a stiff fine. And, once again, for the size of boat that most of us are talking about, annual registration in Florida is going to be well under $200. I don't understand how anyone can call that "high fees" when compared, for instance, to the income taxes and personal property taxes that North Carolina charges.

[jeremiason]

Originally Posted by meridian28

For those that have done this I have some questions.

When you changed your permanent address did you:
a. Immediately change your boat state registration?
b. Immediately change your USCG documentation papers?
c. Immediately change your driver’s license?
d. Immediately change your insurance?

Anything else I need to consider? Can I delay any of the above?

SBI has been wonderful and we have all our mail go through them...

St Brendan's will help you estabalish residency... We opened an SBI Mailbox in 2009, one year before we left fulltime cruising. At that time, SBI filled a form with the County Clerk, which effectively gave us dual residence in California and Florida.

Before you can obtain a Florida drivers license, you have to prove residency in Florida. Two pieces of mail to the SBI mailbox does it... We changed over the USCG Documentation mailing address and our Bank Statements to the SBI address.

With those two documents in hand we went to Florida DMV and obtained our Drivers License and registered to vote in bout 20 minutes.

As far as Florida State Registration.... You do not have to register your boat with the State of Florida, until you actually enter Florida Waters. Then as a resident, you have 10 days to register your vessel and its dinghy. If the boat is documented you do not have to place state registration numbers on the boat. There is no other Florida tax on the boat.

Florida registration is about $160 per year for my Catalina 470, which is a huge difference from the $4k I was paying in California for Property Tax on the boat.

Someone mentioned having trusted friend to check you mail, with SBI you don't need one, since they will scan any mail at your request or forward it to you, or do both.

We don't recommend having your mail forwarded to relatives or friends... We have seen it numberous times when the friend or relative is sick or on vacation and the cruiser can't access important documents.

[meridian28]

Thanks for all the info. I signed up yesterday and have submitted my mail forwarding, voting, and domicile forms today. I'll be in FL in July and will get my drivers license then. I'll register my boat when I get there next winter, $7/year since it is over 30 years old.