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Old 28-09-2018, 17:41   #31
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Re: Source of hot water while cruising

Engine not under a load, doesnít generate much heat, itís more ďefficientĒ to run a generator.
Truckers regularly or used to anyway until the laws changed idle their trucks overnight and get a Million Miles out of an engine, but I bet that is mostly due to the fact that at the end of all those extended idles, was a day of being run hard.
Only very rarely did they spend the night in the truck, wake up and turn it off and go home.
Idling, even extended idling isnít all that bad, as long as itís followed by a good hard run before shutdown, where itís bad is an extended idle, then a shutdown. That can glaze cylinders.
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Old 28-09-2018, 17:50   #32
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Re: Source of hot water while cruising

Big roof space and big solar runs our household 180 litre 240v hot water system and everything else on board.
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Old 28-09-2018, 18:45   #33
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Re: Source of hot water while cruising

The idea of running an engine just to get HW is insane to me. As a side product of other sensible uses, fine.

Below apropos of nothing but the text quoted, so yes OT
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptTom View Post
A typical alternator, at idle, will take forever to charge up a decent-sized house bank.
Yes, but an alt setup actually designed for the job of charging a deep cycle bank can do it much faster than a genset+charger, and as a side product of propulsion.

Combined with LFP maybe eliminating the need for any other off-grid charge source.
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Old 28-09-2018, 18:48   #34
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Re: Source of hot water while cruising

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Originally Posted by Franziska View Post
The US and Australia made them legal long ago I hear.....
Everything is legal, that is the default, until it's forbidden.

I bet insurance surveys may have something to say about them though.
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Old 28-09-2018, 18:49   #35
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Re: Source of hot water while cruising

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Originally Posted by SVRocinante View Post
Thanks, will file this one away as well!
Just be aware that it may cause some insurance issues at your next survey. Not one of those appliances meets ABYC Standards.
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Old 28-09-2018, 18:54   #36
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Re: Source of hot water while cruising

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Pretty stupid they are very safe when installed properly and the most efficient way to have hot water if you only have outboard engines.
The US and Australia made them legal long ago I hear....

Btw. I hate outside showers, unless they are right after a swim.
I don't know anything about Australia but you are incorrect about the US.
There are absolutely zero legal requirements for propane systems on pleasure craft in Canada or the US.

None of these units meet ABYC Standards which are routinely accepted as "best marine practice" by insurance companies and the courts in Canada and the US.
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Old 28-09-2018, 20:13   #37
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Re: Source of hot water while cruising

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Originally Posted by Privilege View Post
I have an instantaneous propane water heater. Search for one that doesn't need 110v for ignition. A single 'D' cell battery will last years. Two barbecue-size tanks last me four months - full time live aboard. The extra safety concerns are not an issue as i already have a propane stove plumbed in. The only downside is that it needs to vent overboard which I have achieved with a mushroom vent.


Pretty much the same set up as ours. Ours is located under a large port in the galley next to our stove. It has a separate propane line coming from the propane locker and to be honest I canít see it being any more dangerous than our propane stove. This is our 4th boat with this setup and the cost for the heater was about $100.
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Old 29-09-2018, 00:49   #38
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Re: Source of hot water while cruising

@Boatpoker

I am along the lines of John61, if it ain't illegal it can be considered legal.
Might be they even have been always legal in the US.

I really can't see any issues with them when installed properly (=externally vented burning chamber and exhaust).
Funny thing is that the regs in Europe allow a propane driven boiler which keeps water in quantities hot over time.
That's so much more inefficient than a just in time calorifier which they do not legally allow.
(Legal in this respect=acceptable to insurances as well)
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Old 29-09-2018, 01:19   #39
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Re: Source of hot water while cruising

Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
We have a small tank that can filled with hot water from the:

Electric kettle
Propane stove
Diesel drip heater (Reflex)
Sola bag


The water is mixed to the ideal temperature and from there it is fed to a normal electric pump and shower rose.

The water is always a perfect temperature without fiddling with the hot and cold mix. The tank is in the shower so the hose run is short, minimising the time to pump out the cold water in the pipe. We pump the first few litres back into the tank until the water is perfect. I hate cold showers. This minimises water usage. We can pick the best method of heating the water depending on the conditions, and multiple sources provides redundancy.

It is a great system and would not be difficult to retrofit to most boats.
When you designed and built your boat, why didn’t you simply install a $400-$500 11 gallon calorifer hotwater tank to recover the waste heat off your engine? Along with a $100 mixing valve in the shower faucet, your shower experience would be much easier and probably less expensive in the long run.
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Old 29-09-2018, 02:46   #40
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Re: Source of hot water while cruising

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
When you designed and built your boat, why didn’t you simply install a $400-$500 11 gallon calorifer hotwater tank to recover the waste heat off your engine?
This is a good solution for many, but does not work well for us.

We usually stay at anchor in the one location for several days, sometimes a week. We use solar power so do not need to run the engine or generator for power. When we move we usually use the engine very little. So for many days the water would be cold unless we deliberately just ran the engine for hot water.

Our previous yacht had a calorifer and we almost never used it. Even if we ran the engine to produce enough hot water, the fiddling with the taps to mix the right amount of hot and cold was a nuisance compared to the perfect steady temperature from the mixed water. A premixed shower is much nicer to use, especially in winter when you don’t want to stand around naked waiting for the water to reach the right temperature.

I am not sure our solution is any cheaper. It still needs a hot water tank of some sort and the system also needs a dedicated pump rather than using the boat’s main water pump, however, it is simpler and has more redundancy. There is less plumbing, less to go wrong, and the engine cooling system can be kept as standard.

The main advantage for us is a nicer shower without worrying if the engine has been run for long enough recently. It sounds like you are happy with your calorifer system. A calorifer is the most common solution to the hot water problem. It can work well for yachts running their engine/generator most days, or for those yachts frequently plugged into shore power, but we don’t qualify on either count.
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Old 29-09-2018, 13:00   #41
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Re: Source of hot water while cruising

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Originally Posted by SVRocinante View Post
Good day all

Weíve been away from marinas for 5 months now (East coast, USA) and I have a question for those of you that do extended cruising and primarily anchor out. While in a marina, we plug in and have hot water and after any motoring we also have hot water. But once youíve been sitting at anchor for a couple of days, what do you do?

As always, thanks in advance!
We installed a solar water heater this season. With 6 of us on board we never ran out of hot water and the water was too hot to touch. Consists of annealed copper tube built into an old solar panel with a small pump to circulate water from hot water tank. Love it.

There is a commercial version available in US.

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Old 29-09-2018, 13:02   #42
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Re: Source of hot water while cruising

I have an LP gas system, self-igniting. It heats only what one uses, and is very efficient. It is a BOSCH--not recommended for caravans or boats. Works well though and never a problem with lighting or going out--if it ever did blow out it would cut off the gas instantly.

There are other brands designed for boats that are cheaper. Some need a pilot light to be lit first, and this flame remains on between uses. I do not like that idea at all. When I leave any vessel I turn off the gas.

Now--if I were to be putting in a new system, in the tropics it would be a solar heated storage type. They are heavy and take up a lot of room. That is the disadvantage.

Before I replaced the old gas heater with the Bosch, I used those hang on a rail solar types. Cheap as chips and work fine--but not very convenient.
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Old 29-09-2018, 13:09   #43
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Re: Source of hot water while cruising

I have hot water on demand; itís called a pot on the stove .

Seriously, we live very comfortably without a hot water tank. We live at anchor most of the time. Our shower is a black pressurizable sprayer which gets very hot sitting under the dodger. Dishes that require hot water are easily accommodated with a quick zap on the stove. If you need to wash yourself in warm water, again it takes about 2 minutes of propane from the stove.

Easy, peasy.
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Old 29-09-2018, 13:36   #44
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Re: Source of hot water while cruising

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVRocinante View Post
Good day all

Weíve been away from marinas for 5 months now (East coast, USA) and I have a question for those of you that do extended cruising and primarily anchor out. While in a marina, we plug in and have hot water and after any motoring we also have hot water. But once youíve been sitting at anchor for a couple of days, what do you do?

We donít need a lot, and weíve simply been making due with not having it, since it hasnít gotten that cold yet; but It would be nice to have just enough for our morning hygiene rituals & it sure as heck would help when doing the dishes.

If we need enough for both of us to shower, then I simply run the engine, but it seems like a waste to do so every morning for the 30 minutes or so it takes for the water to heat up, especially since I donít need to run it to charge our batteries... then it would be a no-brainer.

What do you folks do?

As always, thanks in advance!
i have used a small [1-2gal] garden sprayer modified with a hose extension and sun shower nozzel [available from REI]. i heated 2 qts of water on the stove, mixed with cold water to taste, poured into sprayer, did a couple of pumps [additional pumps as required] and had a military shower. used much less water than standard boat shower. 1 gal. water would do 2 showers. can be done anytime, any place..
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Old 29-09-2018, 13:38   #45
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Re: Source of hot water while cruising

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Originally Posted by Privilege View Post
I have an instantaneous propane water heater. Search for one that doesn't need 110v for ignition. A single 'D' cell battery will last years. Two barbecue-size tanks last me four months - full time live aboard. The extra safety concerns are not an issue as i already have a propane stove plumbed in. The only downside is that it needs to vent overboard which I have achieved with a mushroom vent.
I have a propane stove and oven. I tried an LPG Tankless Instant Hot Water inside the cabin and can't recommend it.

I didn't find an ABYC compliant model, but if you do, the standard calls for a separate line from the tank locker with no splitters inside the cabin. I vented the exhaust up through the deck with a charlie noble but was never comfortable that the LPG would not leak down out of the heater through the slits in the bottom of the case.

I ended up going back to a standard 6 Gal AC/Diesel Engine water heater with extra insulative wrap.
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