Size of water maker needed/recommended for 2 living cruising full time.

[contrail]

I would definitely go with a 12 Volt system....many ways to produce the energy, either engine (through the alternator), generator (through the battery charger) and alternate energy systems. A 120 Volt AC system will almost certainly need the generator. When that goes down, so does your water. I have a Spectra Newport system that produces about 60 liters per hour. The boat gets washed after every day's sailing and stays very fresh. When I am on charter (six guests) we often use over 150 gallons per day (land folks, snorkelling, etc. etc.) but then I just run the system for more hours. I can run it overnight on the batteries if necessary, but I have a pretty big bank. I think mine is the largest size of DC watermaker. If you go with the 180 liter per hour one, then you are tied to your generator and any problems it may have.

[Strait Shooter]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Indeed.
A desalinating R/O watermaker membrane will not pass a dissolved salt molecule, which is smaller (at 0.001 micron) than most bacteria & virus’ (at ±0.01 micron) - hence it will also filtre those larger pathogens.

Note: This should not be understood to mean that you should treat bacteria/virus-contaminated water with an RO unit. That isn't its purpose, and the O-ring seals in reverse osmosis units are not designed to prevent the migration of bacteria.

In a paper titled “Removal of biological and non-biological viral surrogates by spiral-wound reverse osmosis membrane elements with intact and compromised integrity”, the authors found a correlation between rejection of viruses and rejection of sodium chloride, where an increase in salt passage would indicate an increased passage of viruses across the membrane.
See ➥ http://people.ce.gatech.edu/~jkim/do...gh%20RO%5D.pdf

Damn Gord........

Thank you, and the pilot as well. I had no idea......more to read, again.

On edit, it may not be its purpose, and it wouldn't do it forever, but it'd do it. Cool!

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by contrail

I would definitely go with a 12 Volt system....many ways to produce the energy, either engine (through the alternator), generator (through the battery charger) and alternate energy systems. A 120 Volt AC system will almost certainly need the generator. When that goes down, so does your water. I have a Spectra Newport system that produces about 60 liters per hour. The boat gets washed after every day's sailing and stays very fresh. When I am on charter (six guests) we often use over 150 gallons per day (land folks, snorkelling, etc. etc.) but then I just run the system for more hours. I can run it overnight on the batteries if necessary, but I have a pretty big bank. I think mine is the largest size of DC watermaker. If you go with the 180 liter per hour one, then you are tied to your generator and any problems it may have.

If you ever need any help with your NP400 don't hesitate to call.

Just a point. The NewPort400 is the largest 12Volt we have.

The NewPort700 (29gph) and the NewPort 1000 (42gph) both can run off of 24Volts or 120/240Volts

For those of you that absolutely must go large and want to use 24Volt DC I do have an 1800gpd (75 gallons per hour) and it only takes 1200Watts.

www.HaldenMarineServive.com
(954) 515-7077

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I lived in one, and I thought that box pure genius. Mine heated the house as well as heated the water for a bath or shower. True it did not give a high flow of hot water, but an endless supply of hot water so you would never run out. But what impressed me was that little box also heated the house, I thought the dual use smart.
Being in Germany, and Germans being the way they are, it was inspected pretty frequently to ensure it wasn't polluting, which I also thought pretty cool.
Water was expensive though, and none of the Germans would drink the water that came out of the facet or at least none of my neighbors. They went to great lengths to conserve water, capturing the water from the roof for their gardens etc.


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On the topic of water usage- we (two persons, showers every day,) and we do a lot of cooking, have a dishwasher, washing machine etc, use 25.000 liters of water (both hot and cold included) per year or about 6000 gallons (roughly18 gallons per day) in our house, We are not wanton wasters nor are we fanatic conservationists.

To most americans that is very little water. ON the boat - we use a lot less

[a64pilot]

Average toilet in the US uses a gl to flush, and most of us will throw a piece of toilet paper into it or whatever and flush it without a thought as opposed to putting in in the trash.
But for years and years I lived with a well, taking water out of the ground in one place and returning to to the ground in another via a septic tank. I'm not so sure that is wasting water?

I cave dive in North Fl quite often, we dive springs of course and the springs are definitely going away, Magnitude one springs not too many years ago, have no flow now. People love to blame the water bottle people like Coca Cola etc for it, but if you look at how much water a farm irrigation system uses, I'm sure one irrigation system uses more water than a bottling plant.
Only about 3% of water is fresh, and of that 3%, only 30% of that is accessible to us for human consumption, so that is what 1% of water is fresh and available for use, 99% un-useable?

Gut feeling is maybe huge, massive RO plants to supply cities may be coming?
Or is vacuum distillation more energy efficient?

[SV THIRD DAY]

After 8yrs of full time living aboard and cruising, we have used from 20-25gallons of water per day for our family of four. We have a washing machine, take daily showers, get a fresh water rinse after swimming, wash down the dive/snorkel gear, and rinse the desk down with fresh water whenever it looks dirty/salty or just because I want to because the deck is hot. Could we get buy on 1/2 as much water...well maybe, but I have never once told my wife or daughter to "stop using so much water in the shower".

People ask me how you have managed to Cruise and Live Aboard for so long with a family....it is because we are "Living Aboard" and not "Camping Aboard". Sure we could use 1/2 the water, but if you can use practically all the water you want from a high output water maker for less cost than a low output unit...it ain't rocket science to me.

[a64pilot]

Not too much off topic, but seeing as how 34 years of marriage has taught me that a happy wife = happy life. I decided early on that my goal was unlimited power and water.
Only way for unlimited power was a generator being available, and only way for unlimited water, was a watermaker.
Maybe it's just justifying one, but I am installing two fresh water washdown spigots on the boat for the reason Tellie gave, I believe if I can keep the salt off of everything, it will all last longer and stay in better shape, flush the outboard regularly etc.
I also believe its the chlorine in domestic water that will eventually kill my aluminum water tank, and there is no chlorine in RO water, I believe RO water may in fact be much more pure than most domestic supplies?

I know since I converted the heads to fresh water flush that there is now never any odor issue, and I'm hoping that with fresh water only in the system the build up of urea crystals in the lines won't happen either.

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by carstenb

On the topic of water usage- we (two persons, showers every day,) and we do a lot of cooking, have a dishwasher, washing machine etc, use 25.000 liters of water (both hot and cold included) per year or about 6000 gallons (roughly18 gallons per day) in our house, We are not wanton wasters nor are we fanatic conservationists.

To most americans that is very little water. ON the boat - we use a lot less

Estimates vary, but as for us Americans, each person uses about 80-100 gallons of water per day in their home. A family of four 320gpd to 400gpd. But then, ....we smell a lot better than most Europeans...

Halden Marine Services | Marine Watermakers, Solar Panels, Wind Generators

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by Tellie

But then.....

Now you've went and done it...that sounds like something I would say...ha ha ha

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Average toilet in the US uses a gl to flush, and most of us will throw a piece of toilet paper into it or whatever and flush it without a thought as opposed to putting in in the trash.
But for years and years I lived with a well, taking water out of the ground in one place and returning to to the ground in another via a septic tank. I'm not so sure that is wasting water?

I cave dive in North Fl quite often, we dive springs of course and the springs are definitely going away, Magnitude one springs not too many years ago, have no flow now. People love to blame the water bottle people like Coca Cola etc for it, but if you look at how much water a farm irrigation system uses, I'm sure one irrigation system uses more water than a bottling plant.
Only about 3% of water is fresh, and of that 3%, only 30% of that is accessible to us for human consumption, so that is what 1% of water is fresh and available for use, 99% un-useable?

Gut feeling is maybe huge, massive RO plants to supply cities may be coming?
Or is vacuum distillation more energy efficient?

There was a great documentary (at least I thought so) on TV late one night where two divers dove a spring and followed the current flow for a mile or so underground through the Florida aquifer caves and tunnels, some pretty tight fits. All the while two others followed them above ground with some sort of metal detectors. A great scene when the two above went through a Sonny's BBQ joint following the two divers. But there is a lot of research being done on the future of fresh water and the plants it will take to keep up with the demand as the supply diminishes. The technology for watermakers used on cruising boats has and is continually a great testing ground for the newer innovations and strides being made with a larger picture in mind. I know I've mentioned it before, but we now have systems that can make 75-450 gallons per hour using less than a third of the power that anyone else can do. Give me a HondaEU2000 and I can operate one of our 130 gallon per hour watermakers on 120V at 15 amps. These systems are also designed to run 24/7 with a pump rebuild schedule five times longer than any standard plunger type pump. As this develops I can't help but believe this will eventually drift down to boat based systems. Think 12 Volts 6amps, 60-80 gph. Purty cool


www.HaldenMarineService.com

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Now you've went and done it...that sounds like something I would say...ha ha ha

Hey!!! If you're starting to rub off on me,...well,... that ain't so bad.

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Tellie

Estimates vary, but as for us Americans, each person uses about 80-100 gallons of water per day in their home. A family of four 320gpd to 400gpd. But then, ....we smell a lot better than most Europeans...

Halden Marine Services | Marine Watermakers, Solar Panels, Wind Generators

I've seen that number before - 80 to 100 gallons per person and I have to say I just floored.

We shower every day (my wife, as most women can spend a long time in the shower)

I just don't undstand where you use all that water.

[a64pilot]

https://www3.epa.gov/watersense/pubs/indoor.html


Sent from my iPad Pro using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Ribbit]

The thing is that amount of water use a day is not a bad thing, as it keeps sewer systems working properly.

There are starting to be big problems in some areas due to reduced water flow through the sewers (resulting in blockages, methane buildup, gas explosions, etc).

New membranes such as Lockheed Martin's graphene, are going to totally transform the World, with lots of cheap clean water available for drinking AND agricultural use.

It'll be cheap because the energy needed to desalinate, will be substantially reduced.

Wanted: Clean Drinking Water · Lockheed Martin

It can't be long before coming to market now.

Is this where "12 Volts 6amps, 60-80 gph" comes from Tellie?

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by Ribbit

The thing is that amount of water use a day is not a bad thing, as it keeps sewer systems working properly.

There are starting to be big problems in some areas due to reduced water flow through the sewers (resulting in blockages, methane buildup, gas explosions, etc).

New membranes such as Lockheed Martin's graphene, are going to totally transform the World, with lots of cheap clean water available for drinking AND agricultural use.

It'll be cheap because the energy needed to desalinate, will be substantially reduced.

Wanted: Clean Drinking Water · Lockheed Martin

It can't be long before coming to market

Is this where "12 Volts 6amps, 60-80 gph" comes from Tellie?

No this comes from even more energy efficient pumps. Perforene (sp) I think is still a while off. It's been around for a few years already. From what I understand it is still too fragile, and though certainly an interesting product which will use less energy to power the water flow, the equipment that it will take to run and monitor it will still be quite expensive. Up front costs would not really be practical on small scales at this point. I would still like to see the intended foot print of these systems as well. I think you would see the same argument I get from a few people who would rather build their own watermaker as opposed to buying a far more energy efficient Spectra. Again, I can easily get you a Spectra watermaker now that will produce 75 gallons per hour that can run on 1200Watts but how practical for a smaller boat?


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