Single Women Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look

[kmacdonald]

Zee, let's go get a drink. I'll buy.

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by cyan

Misandry is oddly not studied in psychology as much as its famous compliment, misogyny. Those who are curious could simply study this thread, perhaps.

Probably too few data points....besides, the internet is the perfect venue for [insert group] bashing and trolling. It feels as if this thread has taken a mean turn, so much different from the other one had with the same people. This is curious.

I will say that I do have a tendency to make blanket statements that perpetuate stereotypical attitudes, which is not fair to our more sensitive male members on here, but I don't mean it to represent that "everyone" is exactly that way. Again, the idea of non-violent communication is that you own your reactions/attitudes/perceptions. You're not going to change what other people say or do that makes you feel this way. However, it's good (for me) to get called out for it, but no one is going to change another's mind here about why they are or are not single or paired as cruisers. We have our own reasons based on our life reactions/attitudes/perceptions. So like it or lump it, I don't really care, but don't expect me to apologize for it

[boatman61]

That is as it should be Gamayun..
A person is the sum of their experiences and how they coped with them..
Like you I make no apologies for who and what I am, some may hate me.. some may like me.. most will be indifferent either way..
However those members of CF I have met in person seemed to think I was okay so I cannot be all bad.
So long as people important to you like you, that's all that matters.
The rest is dust in the wind.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by cyan

The simple answer here is I got what I asked for.
"Single Women Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look."

This "honest look" includes one obvious and extreme example of MISANDRY. Misandry is oddly not studied in psychology as much as its famous compliment, misogyny. Those who are curious could simply study this thread, perhaps.

Generalizing that single women on a boat are in such a situation BECAUSE they are misandrists would be completely unfair. However, those with open minds must consider the possibility that misandry DOES play a part in many such cases, and not just the obvious one here, no?

Such a raw, honest look shown here may just be a loud warning, when decoded correctly. Those of us men who truly support and celebrate the accomplishments of the women in their lives might have learned something valuable here. If you DO fail to encourage, cherish or skip the attempt to understand the women close to you, you may be cultivating a loner misandrist without even knowing it. Warning received. Thank you.

An honest look, indeed.

Refreshingly honest Cyan, but only because there seems to be far less political correctness on the one hand and an absence of ad hominem retorts on the other. How often do we still get to benefit from these sorts of conversations/debates these days?? I know some may view it as mean-spirited (sorry Gamayun), but sometimes honesty can be hurtful but also healthy. Maybe it's on account of the shared passion for sailing in all its various forms and respect for those who pursue it, but I for one have an instinct that I would probably like most everyone here if I met them in person, regardless of differences of opinion on some of the issues discussed.

And we're starting to see some reasoning underlying the condemnation of entire groups based on the bad behavior of a limited sampling, and it seems to mostly come down to personal experience rather than a more objective view of the complexities & nuances of human behavior. These viewpoints are understandable, but mostly involve unsound pre-judgments of huge categories of people based on quite rational & sound post-judgments based on their personal experiences with more limited groups of individuals. That's the very definition of prejudice, and it's an all too common human trait that I'm certainly not immune to.

So along with all the depravity she saw in her front line nursing career, Zee's first seven years of cruising was occasioned by consistent male harassment & abuse. Would make anyone in her shoes cautious, wary, and maybe even bitter, but then how do we get to so many pedophiles, pervs, and male predators sailing around on boats? We all know that most boat owner/captains are male, and that there can be a lot of ego and control involved, but how many egotistical & controlling female owners has Boaty had to endure on a delivery? It was gratifying to read that the LA Sheriff's Dept. was held accountable for unlawful racism by one or more of its officers, but shouldn't accusations or even implications of systemic racism be supported by more than anecdotal information? After all, the NYC Police Dept., for e.g., is reputed to be the most "diversified" in the world, yet within any such large organization there are obviously bad apples.

Do we really need to indict all of them in order to root the bad ones out? Can we acknowledge that racism still exists but that we're past the Jim Crow era? Or that gender discrimination is still out there but we no longer have to worry about women's suffrage?

I'm certainly not immune from these very human impulses. I was effectively raised by three older, very smart, sophisticated & accomplished sisters. They were all very precocious when we were growing up, so when I was still playing with Tonka toys they were arguing the politics of the day and planning which museums to visit on their first trip to Paris. Women in my family were respected & put on pedestals, and so maybe it's for that reason why my disappointment was so intense after being taken advantage of in a couple of failed relationships. But I don't want to become bitter as I grow older, so have to be careful not to paint such a broad brush based on my own, limited experiences & disappointments. It was, after all, my own naiveté and who knows what else from within that attracted me to these particular women in the first place.

[kmacdonald]

In the world of psychiatry, normal is much broader than just about anyone thinks. There are psychiatrist who feel pet is a sexual orientation just like hetro, homo, or bi and champion for their rights. All here are well within what would be considered normal. Anyone that is functional on their own is.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by gamayun

I will say that I do have a tendency to make blanket statements that perpetuate stereotypical attitudes, which is not fair to our more sensitive male members on here, but I don't mean it to represent that "everyone" is exactly that way. Again, the idea of non-violent communication is that you own your reactions/attitudes/perceptions. You're not going to change what other people say or do that makes you feel this way. However, it's good (for me) to get called out for it, but no one is going to change another's mind here about why they are or are not single or paired as cruisers. We have our own reasons based on our life reactions/attitudes/perceptions. So like it or lump it, I don't really care, but don't expect me to apologize for it

HOw often have we seen a man throw his hands in the air when talking with a woman and exclaim: "WOMEN"!

We see the same vice versa.

I have no problem with generalisations. I have a problem when the generalisations paint women or men in a really bad light. that is uncalled for and wrong. To label all women as "whatever" or all men as "whatever" in a truly demeaning way is damaging.

I do not want to be associated with any label of behaviour that I dont practice.

Its not a sensitivity to react against it. Look at all the women that react against comments, yet when a man says "hold on a minute...your generalisation is incorrect and Im not and never have been like that....."

Treat each person as an individual, maintain your protective guard until you get to know them. I do that with women too....

But dont view everyone as your arch villain or start from the premise that they are out to get you. How can you even begin a relationship that way? Sure, we might get hurt from time to time. I have been, but not from wrong behavior.....just a wrong relationship.

I absolutely love femininity. Boatie told of an experience of a woodworking female who did what she wanted but was still a lady. There are no roles I see except male and female and mother and father. The rest is personal choice as to whatever...

My sister is a teacher in a school in the UK.. She could not even help a 6 year old untangle her pants so the child could defecate until another female was present......... how messed up is that?

Insinuations are not cool. I wont even be alone with a woman in an isolated place so that she feels comfortable!

We havent improved much as a race have we.........

postscript: I see boatie had a similar experience with a child..so very sad.

[evm1024]

Wevis, I understand where you are coming from. There is hope in the world. If you are not aware already (of them) take a look at some of the videos from Cassie Jaye and Jordan Peterson.

My daughter does not know who Camille Paglia is. The women's studies department does not teach Paglia at all at her University. Paglia does not conform with the world view that they insist we all share. Simply search for 3rd wave feminism.

(erased oh so many things)

[Exile]

Originally Posted by montenido

To answer Exile,

I do not have "White Guilt", I just recognize that some people have a harder set of requirements because of sex or race. And my neighbor did contact an attorney. The LA County Sheriffs paid a pretty good price for the harassment, but that doesn't make it go away. Be happy you are not black or female, because you don't know the issues that they deal with daily (nor do I).

Cheers, Bill

I don't see any need to feel "happy" that I'm not black or female, or "guilt" or "privilege" that I'm a white male, in order to feel regret, disappointment, and frustration that there are a**holes out there who abuse people solely on account of immutable characteristics such as skin color & gender. Even more so when it's under color of law, obviously. Unless one believes, and has evidence to support, that such behavior is systemic throughout an organization then the primary remedy lies with the individual perpetrators, and only tangentially with the organization. Suggesting or insinuating blame on an entire group only distorts the issue at best, and detracts from ascertaining the truth at worst. You are right that none of this makes an unlawful act go away, but one approach is far more effective than the other in deterring future misconduct. Unless you are a media outlet or a politician that is.

[gamayun]

Caveat emptor duly noted

Most of you are still missing the point. Yes, remove yourself from a situation (if you can) in which you might be judged wrongly, but your feelings on being judged (or painted with a wide brush) are yours to manage alone. I get it (in an intellectual way) of the possibility that your decision on how to act might result in a trip to jail, or a bullet to the brain, or a visit from a rapist, but that's not what is happening here. Opinions are being expressed. If someone breaks the rules of the forum, they will be booted; but otherwise, it's just opinions (and no apologies needed!! That's you too, Exile). When I find my heart rate increasing, I leave; but overall, I find these comments fascinating (even the "mean" ones) because they make me more introspective and, hopefully, a better human. Boatie says he just cares if the people close to him like him or not. I'd say even this doesn't matter. It took me a long time to tell people I live on a boat because it has connotations here -- in the land with the highest real estate in the world -- of being on the edge of society and barely above homelessness. I may still moderate what I say to certain people because I am also a business woman, but even then I enjoy saying it just to bust stereotypes. If they find me weird, so be it; if it affects a contract job, ARRRRGGGGHHH!!!!! THEN, I'm mad as hell But I get over it...

[weavis]

In 2011, a colleague of mine had file for divorce from his wife. They have 2 lovely girls. We had arranged to go out for a day trip, him the girls, me and a married couple friend of mine. As we walked to dock, a police officer stepped out asked for him by name, and arrested him. His wife had "insinuated" improper conduct between him and the girls. He was in jail for two days.

As our dept did the blood tests for the local police station, I asked the officers there about this. They said it was single complaint most lodged against a man in a divorce.
What are the results?
A police record for life, even if cleared of the charges.

I asked how many were justified. He said in 8 years only one in his experience.

For the record, he was innocent. For the record again, he is soured on relationships.

[BrightSEALAB]

Originally Posted by jlcnuke

Recognizing facts is not a copout.
...
That's not "sexist", it's factual information. Women, on average, have less strength. Demonstrating that there are some (actually many numerically if a small percentage-wise) who don't fit into the "average" category for their gender doesn't change those facts. Facts aren't sexist, despite how you some would portray them. So no, it isn't a "sexist copout" to point out that "on average" women have less upper body strength because the studies establish that as a fact.

The sexist part may be suggesting that it's a fact relevant to the topic at all?

The reality is that there are men and women, both, who lack physical strength to the point where it limits there ability to sail. But unless we're talking about a racing boat, I'm pretty sure the #42 will serve as an equalizer.

[boatman61]

Gamayun.. the reason I care if a person I care about likes me or not is simple..
If they no longer feel the way they did when we met, my purpose for being there no longer exists..
Its time to pack and throw my bag on a bike or boat and move on.. to struggle on valiantly through misplaced loyalty is a waste of both emotion and energy.. for all concerned.

[JPA Cate]

I've been feeling badly that this thread has taken the direction it did, so I went back and found zeehag's post that was a turning post. I copied the last part of it, and I am going to re-format it here, after adding a colon, an asterisk, some numbers, and making #7 bold face:

"personally, i meet as many folks as possible, however, the truism is real.... the men out cruising solo are:
1) married
2) players--married or not
3) child molesters
4) stalkers
5) other criminals.
6) married and leaving wifee home .... many reasons for leaving wifee home.
7) there are some really good folks out here---many other types as well, one cannot ASSume the male cruiser is a decent person.
* i have met some really cool folks and some asshooligans.
no i wont date the men i meet cruising. i have yet to meet anyone worth my losing my lifestyle and boat for. this is always a concern for women cruisin"

It is only my sense of this, but I think it is unclear thinking to consider this a condemmnation of all men, just because what she did not insert "some" into the first phrase before the word "men".

I would like to comment further that most of us have things in our lives about which we harbor anger. I have certainly spent some time trying to forgive people for actions I didn't like during my life, but i would be silly to think I had totally rooted it out. Sometimes that anger comes out directly, but other times it kind of piggybacks on an issue, so you can relieve the internal pressure it makes without having to face up to what is really going on for you. We're all grownups here, it is up to each of us to take responsibility for our thoughts, words and deeds, and this includes the necessary introspection.

Ann

[Kerry1]

Originally Posted by boatman61

That is as it should be Gamayun..
A person is the sum of their experiences and how they coped with them..
Like you I make no apologies for who and what I am, some may hate me.. some may like me.. most will be indifferent either way..
However those members of CF I have met in person seemed to think I was okay so I cannot be all bad.
So long as people important to you like you, that's all that matters.
The rest is dust in the wind.

I think this is a bit over simplified. A person is not just the sum of their experiences, but the sum of their own interpretation of their experiences, and I think that is very important to distinguish. But more than this, we are also predisposed by our genetic characteristics as well which makes us all individual and therefore rules out stereotyping, though generalizations are guardedly admissable. No wonder it's hard to get along with people, why we don't all think alike. Nurture and nature, not either or but both and. But that makes life interesting huh!

[jlcnuke]

Originally Posted by BrightSEALAB

The sexist part may be suggesting that it's a fact relevant to the topic at all?

The reality is that there are men and women, both, who lack physical strength to the point where it limits there ability to sail. But unless we're talking about a racing boat, I'm pretty sure the #42 will serve as an equalizer.

Now, I admittedly don't have the experience to say for sure, but I was told that limiting boat size would be a good idea for single handing just because of the weight of sails etc (carrying them, swapping them etc I'm guessing it's what was meant by that). I imagine that one's physical strength would impact what size boat sails a person could reasonably lift. Sure, you could run rigging all over the boat and then I could pick up the mail for a 200ft boat by myself, but that's not what would be considered 'normal' and I think the question was asking about "averages" and/or "normals".

I couldn't say how much impact a different level of strength would affect a person's boat choice, but I'm sure it has some impact if they're not willing to make significant changes to the 'normal' way things are done in some cases.

As a single sailor my boat choices and safe traveling methods are more limited than a couple sailing together because I only have two hands to their four, I can't sleep and stand watch at the same time, etc. There's a physical difference between having one or two people onboard and it impacts things. Like two people lifting a said can generally lift a bigger sail than one person.

Is that always the case? Maybe not. A single sailor who does marathons and is a competitive weight lifter in amazing shape can probably haul up a larger sail from belowdeck than a very out of shape elderly couple, but that wouldn't be the "normal" thought.