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Old 13-02-2018, 13:38   #106
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Re: Single Women Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look

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Originally Posted by BillsWife1 View Post
ZeeHag you really did not answer the question I posed. What I am asking you for is what "factual" research you are stating.
[...]
So once again, please assist me in finding the research and facts of your claim.
What statement are you requesting a proof for?
This?:
Quote:
the men out cruising solo are
married
players--married or not
child molesters
stalkers
other criminals.
married and leaving wifee home .... many reasons for leaving wifee home.
there are some really good folks out here---many other types as well
Proving this statement does not require research; nor did Zeehag offer you any. She said, "these are hard facts. can be backed up any where on planet." and she's right, it's axiomatic. A brief ontological review of the statement...

The men out cruising solo are:
  • married
  • players--married or not
  • child molesters
  • stalkers
  • other criminals.
  • married and leaving wifee home
  • some really good folks
  • many other types as well

This list describes every possible man you might meet, ever. Are you saying a man may exist somewhere that is not at least one of these descriptions? The list is plainly and explicitly inclusive, meant to give a sampling of the types of people described.

The fact that some have read it as an exhaustive list and taken it as if she is saying that all solo men sailors are child molesters is either a regrettable misunderstanding of how declarative statements work or a sophistric twisting of the words.
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Old 13-02-2018, 13:41   #107
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Re: Single Women Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look

Ann,

Beautifully written.

I may not agree with all of your points, but you are most eloquent in your delivery.
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Old 13-02-2018, 13:46   #108
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Re: Single Women Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look

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Originally Posted by BrightSEALAB View Post
Let's look at this controversial opinion being debated now.
Solo guys you meet sailing are either:
  1. married
  2. players--married or not
  3. child molesters
  4. stalkers
  5. other criminals.
    or
  6. really good folks
and "one cannot ASSume the male cruiser is a decent person"
Perhaps if Zee had actually qualified her little list with the word "either" (as you added in your paraphrase above), then there wouldn't be so much controversy.

But she didn't, and once we get to the second entry, it really does appear as if she means this to be all inclusive. The "really good folks" comment was not part of her list, but tacked on after that.

I don't know what Zee actually meant, and I hope she wasn't claiming that all solo sailing guys are predators. But it's hard to tell.
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Old 13-02-2018, 13:50   #109
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Re: Single Women Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look

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Originally Posted by BillsWife1 View Post
ZeeHag you really did not answer the question I posed. What I am asking you for is what "factual" research you are stating.

I did "advise Google of my desires" to obtain this information as you suggested, to no avail. Perhaps my command of the English language is insufficient and I was not clear enough for Google to understand what I was in search of.

I am relieved that you have not inserted "feeling" into these statements... that would make you sound crazy. I am still deeply concerned with the "fact" that I may inadvertently subject myself to undue danger from predators. I like to be well armed with knowledge based in fact and not feelings or opinions. So once again, please assist me in finding the research and facts of your claim.
so solly pally. you donot know facts., what i posted has been FACTS. objective sexual. assault team facts as well as demographics and other REALITIES of life on this planet earth.
i have lived aboard since 1990. i have met all of you and then some. i have been cruising on opb as well as my own since 2008 december.
yup i think i have it down by now.

if you are writing a paper or thesis, move onto a boat and learn first hand. you wilkl learn what i relay is actual and factual. if you dislike my words, google the topic.

if you think my words are not facts, donot live aboard as you willnot be able to handle the realities of this lifestyle. guaranteed you will be reading something unreal and very biased.
if you wish authors and a bibliography, life aint got that. life is experiences not books words. observations over opinions. i wrote no opinions, only observations, first hand. is a shame that is not good enough , as you wanted allegedly the truth about this lifestyle i have been living since 1990, , which you now deny requesting. have fun.
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Old 13-02-2018, 13:53   #110
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Re: Single Women Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look

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Originally Posted by Paul Elliott View Post
Perhaps if Zee had actually qualified her little list with the word "either" (as you added in your paraphrase above), then there wouldn't be so much controversy.

But she didn't, and once we get to the second entry, it really does appear as if she means this to be all inclusive. The "really good folks" comment was not part of her list, but tacked on after that.

I don't know what Zee actually meant, and I hope she wasn't claiming that all solo sailing guys are predators. But it's hard to tell.
I didn't get that she was saying they were all predators, some were just married and traveling alone it seemed...
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Old 13-02-2018, 14:31   #111
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Re: Single Women Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
so solly pally. you donot know facts., what i posted has been FACTS. objective sexual. assault team facts as well as demographics and other REALITIES of life on this planet earth.
i have lived aboard since 1990. i have met all of you and then some. i have been cruising on opb as well as my own since 2008 december.
yup i think i have it down by now.

if you are writing a paper or thesis, move onto a boat and learn first hand. you wilkl learn what i relay is actual and factual. if you dislike my words, google the topic.

if you think my words are not facts, donot live aboard as you willnot be able to handle the realities of this lifestyle. guaranteed you will be reading something unreal and very biased.
if you wish authors and a bibliography, life aint got that. life is experiences not books words. observations over opinions. i wrote no opinions, only observations, first hand. is a shame that is not good enough , as you wanted allegedly the truth about this lifestyle i have been living since 1990, , which you now deny requesting. have fun.
Perhaps it's your writing style that is leading to the confusion here. Weavis took offense to your statements. I'm not offended by them, I am concerned by them. I never said I don't believe your observations. They are of course what you have observed.

What I am getting at is that, in your response to Weavis, you suggest that he use Google to obtain information to prove that you were merely stating facts and not opinions that there are (specific to my concerns) child molesters lurking around marinas.

The US National registry of sex offenders does not appear to have individuals residing in the marinas that I checked...thankfully. So once again, I will ask...What factual evidence can I find on the statement you made regarding the presence of child molesters being ubiquitous in the sailing and cruising community? If it's just your observation, well then I get it.

Unlike yourself I have never really felt threatened by the male machismo. I have found that making it clear in my words, actions, and body language I do not find myself treated as you have been. Perhaps it was my upbringing, or that I owned my own business in a male dominated industry. I have been fortunate enough to travel by myself in Muslim countries without issue. I am not concerned for myself...I know how to handle the few men that act inappropriately. I do however want to be sure I am protecting my daughter and nieces and not bringing them into a situation where there are pedophiles not on state or federal registries.
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Old 13-02-2018, 16:10   #112
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Re: Single Women Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look

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This may sound strange, but I actually think "equality" is impossible: we are too different to ever be "equal".
Ann
I totally agree with this starting point in any relationship.

I admittedly have biases towards:
women,
immigrants,
handicapped, underprivileged .... etc....

I expect more, because from observations and personal history, they usually have something to prove to themselves.

I expect less from 2nd-3rd generation established people, with a sense of entitlement.
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Old 13-02-2018, 16:23   #113
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pirate Re: Single Women Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look

BillsWife1.. to be on any registry one first has to be caught.. so marina, residential area, whatever.. there's a lot of unknowns.
The good news is if one takes the proper precautions one can live ones life without ever being a victim.
But as we know only to well in the UK.. you can stop 99% of actions but 1% will always get through.. then its just down to wrong place, wrong time.
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Old 13-02-2018, 16:25   #114
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Re: Single Women Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post

personally, i meet as many folks as possible, however, the truism is real.... the men out cruising solo are
married
players--married or not
child molesters
stalkers
other criminals.
married and leaving wifee home ....
Ok. I give up, it's either player or criminal. Is there a test for this?

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Old 13-02-2018, 19:07   #115
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Re: Single Women Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look

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and to the man who wrote that he hoped he'd get good stuff for his daughter from this thread, I'm sorry it didn't work out that way, and it might in another 50 years or so, but only if this awkward practice of gaining almost-equality works out.
Well, I still have hope for the good stuff here. My daughter proudly rejects the victim mentality. Call it youth, but she still believes she can do anything, currently dominating her (male and female) grad-school classmates.
She's newly fascinated with sailing and in need of an adventure before slaving away in an office for a few decades. It probably won't be a solo trip, but she will be a single female. There just might still be some inspiration left in this thread. I have taught this fierce young woman so much, but to hear from (most) other female sailors is powerful indeed.

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I am fairly sure there might be some personality disorders out here, BUT we met only one antisocial personality disorder out here, and it was a man.
Yeah, I think I witnessed this one:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parano...ality_disorder
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Old 13-02-2018, 19:19   #116
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Re: Single Women Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look

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Now, what is considered the perfect cruising boat for a single female solo sailor, with less than average upper body strength, than her male counterpart?
This is an interesting question. I'm just not sure about the upper body strength debate. I race in a crew with 5 men and 2 women: one woman who does anything the men can do, and another who peters-out as a grinder if we are tacking too much. The first keeps in shape at the gym, and the second works out only by typing on a keyboard. Moral: keep in shape, either gender. I think the upper body strength issue might be less of a concern if simply cruising vs racing, no?
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Old 13-02-2018, 19:21   #117
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Re: Single Women Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look

With respect to Ann, Zee and others, I think there is an awful lot of personal experience & subjectivity substituting for more objective fact in some of these posts. Nothing wrong with the former, but it would be helpful & less controversial if it was more clearly identified as such. This is one article which may help explain the basis for some of the assumptions & generalizations being made about men in this thread, and why they do not appear supported by more objective research.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/the-...771263030.html


Quote:
Originally Posted by JPA Cate View Post
I am fairly sure there might be some personality disorders out here, BUT we met only one antisocial personality disorder out here, and it was a man. Some men are singlehanders because they prefer their own company, and others are more because women who want to sail are in short supply. The latter group, those who desire female companionship, are often somewhat lonely when you meet them. To me they seem to have been holding in everything for lack of someone to have already shared it with. Singlehanding will not suit all personalities.

It might be more accurate to say that singlehanding will not suit most personalities, and it's not gender-dependent. With respect, I don't think you can realistically diagnose most personality disorders from casual social encounters, or draw conclusions about the motivations or feelings of male singlehanders. It kinda seems to me that your comments are attempting to characterize such male sailors as weird, sad, or otherwise unbalanced. Might be true in some cases, and not as bad as child molesters, etc. , but I think you may wanna recognize that your perceptions may be shaded by your own experience as a long-married woman.

The younger and more physically attractive women singlehanders generally have to plow through all the usual male prejudices, and then are pretty well accepted in their home environment.

Maybe so, but also worth considering that, in some cases anyway, you may be mistaking "prejudice" for men simply reacting to the fact that female singlehanders are few & far between. Either way, a competent female singlehander will quickly & easily dispel any preconceived but incorrect male assumptions of lack of ability. Not every incorrect male assumption constitutes gender discrimination, and not every female solo sailor who confronts preconceived notions about their competence has a chip on their shoulder about doing so. Prejudice is by defn. a pre-judgment based on insufficient, biased, or misinformed facts, so the best (and really only way) to dispel is to demonstrate why it's wrong, often foolishly wrong.

I think it is a lot harder for men to see women's side of these issues than when the shoe is on the other foot, but I am not sure why, what I think it is, is that thousands of years of patriarchal societies inform their thought.

I think it's a lot harder for men to see womens' side of these issues partly for the same reason it's hard for anyone to experience other peoples' perspectives. Obviously thousands of years of particular societies' history & culture will necessarily inform current attitudes, but in the West & many other parts of the world there have been huge, recent changes for the better. There's a difference between acknowledging the impact of history on modern-day sensibilities as opposed to trying to demonize cultures & groups based on histories that may look unsavory through our modern lenses. Societies can only move forward from where they are now, not where they once were.

At any rate, societies are always changing, and to the man who wrote that he hoped he'd get good stuff for his daughter from this thread, I'm sorry it didn't work out that way, and it might in another 50 years or so, but only if this awkward practice of gaining almost-equality works out. Progress is so uneven. I know the first female ever granted an American Motorcyle Association Mechanics License. This happened in the late 1980's. Progress is uneven, and seems slow.

I posted a number of statistics in the other thread about college & grad school admissions, numbers of women entering the professions, salaries, etc. which suggest that much of the waiting may be over. And why would you look at motorcycle mechanic's licenses as a measure of "equality" when you can look at the ever-growing numbers of female doctors, lawyers, veterinarians, accountants, and many other professions? That would be like looking at stats on the ratio of male/female beauticians as a way of demonstrating gender discrimination against men. Women being denied access to certain professions based on their gender is very different from women not wanting to join.

This may sound strange, but I actually think "equality" is impossible: we are too different to ever be "equal". I personally would accept "parity", equal pay for equal work.

Totally agree, and nothing strange about it. Much of this comes down to how "equality" is defined, especially if society can finally accept that inherent differences between the sexes are not incompatible with that defn. & goal.

But still, there will be the scary dangers from some men towards some women for women to worry about: we are the ones who are penetrated, we are the ones who bear the children.

The ones being "penetrated?" Only worrisome & scary if it's forced, i.e. non-consensual, right? Sorry but I don't understand what you mean (or are implying) here. And being the ones who bear the children make women both more vulnerable in some ways but also more protected in others.

Absent weapons, we are more likely to be the one beaten up

1 in 3 women and 1 in 4 men are victims of physical violence, according to a 2010 CDC survey (includes rape, phys. violence and/or stalking). When it comes to psychological abuse it's about 50/50. In both types of cases it is believed to be underreported by men, so the ratios could be even closer. This was just one study and it's conclusions were published eight years ago, but if you have others . . . .

https://www.cdc.gov/violencepreventi...port2010-a.pdf
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Old 13-02-2018, 19:36   #118
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Re: Single Women Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look

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Well, I still have hope for the good stuff here.
She's newly fascinated with sailing and in need of an adventure before slaving away in an office for a few decades. It probably won't be a solo trip, but she will be a single female. There just might still be some inspiration left in this thread. I have taught this fierce young woman so much, but to hear from (most) other female sailors is powerful indeed.
Are you familiar with Latitude 38? All it would take is reading a few issues and she'll be hooked. They have an archive section so she could search specifics all she wants.
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Old 13-02-2018, 20:52   #119
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Re: Single Women Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look

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I find handicapped folk confrontational.. treat them as less than equal and they bite your head off.. just like solo sailing women.. I don't get it .. Duhhh.!!!!!
Do you treat solo women and handicapped people as less than equal? I certainly don't. I think your being confrontational
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Old 13-02-2018, 20:55   #120
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Re: Single Women Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look

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ps i donot accuse . i speak reality., if shoe fits, is yours, keep it to yourself, as i speak and write observations of actual behavior without games nor emotion in my words. i see the games in yours. try to learn to be observant not subjective.
subjective is opinion based not reality based and thereby warps ones sense of what is actually occurring. for every one reality there are 11 falsehoods invented by subjectifying the object of the observed situation.
i feel sad for you as you project onto me your insecurities and affects. not real. be objective, not subjective. bet ye cannot repeat a sentence spoken to you without making changes before repeating to the next one.
this is part of a testing tool. remember i find the pepper.
and never forget that subjectivity is opinion not fact based.
Your reality....
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