Single Women Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look

[cyan]

Originally Posted by boatscam61

Another thing I've noticed.. people like cryan make emotive statements like "Parents will die for their children"

Ummm, you got the people here all confused with each other.
No harm done. I'm getting older too. I find that a pint or 3 helps.
Oh, and don't get so butt-hurt over "Portuguese Squeeze". It JUST RHYMES, mate.

Originally Posted by weavis

Apologies cyan for inciting your wife away from catamarans. I took a closer look at the boat she likes and personally, I cant find any attractive feature about it. Im sure lots of mono sailors will, just not for me.

Im with Boatie on the smaller older English monos, but prefer older english designed cats.

We is all different.

No worries. After catamaran trips, I think she forgot how a rolly downwind passage feels on a mono. Did they magically fix that on the new ones, somehow?

[weavis]

Originally Posted by cyan

You silly old dolt. (meant in a loving way) You got the people here all mixed up.
Oh, and don't get so butt-hurt over "Portuguese Squeeze". It JUST RHYMES, mate.

No worries. After catamaran trips, I think she forgot how a rolly downwind passage feels on a mono. Did they magically fix that on the new ones, somehow?

Sorry.. all I could think is that Portugese Squeeze is a great name for a band...

[kmacdonald]

OK, with a thread like this, someones gotta start a food fight.

[cyan]

Originally Posted by weavis

Sorry.. all I could think is that Portugese Squeeze is a great name for a band...

Fixed it already. Phil's not really a dolt. Pretty sure.
Band name!

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by weavis

Phil. The moderators have had to wade through Zeehags posts for a lot of years and are familiar with her style. I have to state for the record that its disconcerting that a highly trained member of the medical fraternity who self confessedly has to report things 100% accurately is unable to do so here on the CF.

There is NO getting around what was written. Explaining afterward what "was meant" does not cut it. Zee has a history of antipathy toward men and this final condemnatory statement against male solo sailors is offensive and derogatory. Not only that, as some posters have pointed out, the factual side of her stance plus the contradictory nature of her posts, are too confusing to make a logical conclusion.

As to your world view of what is acceptable. Let us assume Zee as a westerner condemns child abuse, marital unfaithfulness and players and criminals. SO whilst working within that framework, I and many other single solo sailors, also working within that framework take deep exception to her view, which CANNOT be based on experience because ALL solo sailors have not met her or are a one of the above.

She was wrong to make that statement. Will all innocent male solo sailors get an apology? I guess not.

But men will always get the blame.

As for climbing a mast twice, I recall reading a newspaper article a couple of years ago about a journey you undertook, (Twice if I recall correctly?) several years previously. Was one attempt abandoned? you were laid out on the deck for days with a bad back after an injury. Im not sure if that was the same article about having to climb the mast.

hahahahahahaha
\sorry, you inserted emotion into an unemotional writing.
oopsy not my bad..
i can go back thru all the postings in this thread and show which are off the mark, but that is a total waste of time, as prejudices abound. sadly, not from me. i posted unemotional and factual reality. you donot concur, get out more. remember i have a few years on most of you.
preconceived notions are with all of you . each and every one. always and forever.
try to not make a judgement.
for most of you, not making a judgement is impossible. dont feel bad, that is a personality issue. see myers-briggs.
as for sailing, i am a fortunate woman, as i was raised to believe ladies donot sail.
hahahaha. well i showed em from age 7 i am able to sail and be a lady, which i still am, thankyou. WHEN i WANT to be. hahahahahahaha
i have been noticing that with the attitudes presented here in this thread, i am not surprised so many of you are single and sailing solo.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by montenido

Okay folks,
I have read and kept up with this entire thread. Although some, not all, men find Zee's comments insulting, I do not. As a white male in America, I have been extended many privileges that most consider "rights". I am generally considered "safe" when I run into police officers. I am not worried about rape or discrimination. And I'm sure there are many other things I am not thinking of.

I live in a nice rural neighborhood that is largely white in population. My very good friend, a black man who also owns a home here, has a different perspective on things. He has been repeatedly pulled over by our local sheriffs, made to lie on the ground, and even had his two daughters, who were in the car, be asked if they were there on their own free will.

So, can I realistically discuss racism with him? Can I say with authority that I know how he feels? All the reading in the world will not put me on his level of experience and discomfort. So I say to all of you men, even though you might be offended by some of Zee's comments, how can you possibly say that her experience is not "real"? We men have not been subjected to all that Zee and some others have been talking about, probably ever in our lives. I say give the women some room to tell us about us. Certainly, we are not all pervs and molesters, but apparently, a good number are. Have any of you been watching the news lately? The "Me Too" movement? I am disgusted by the pervasiveness of men abusing power in our society, and even more so that it was fairly common knowledge by those around these predators, people who did nothing about it.

Zee and the other women who have posted, I thank you for giving us an un-varnished look at your world. Just like with my neighborhood friend, most of us "normal" males just can't see the forest for the trees, because we have never walked that particular path, let alone lived it. All we can do as "normal" males is help to change the world by being nice and trustworthy, and to make women feel safe in our presence.

Ok, I'm done. Zee you rock!!

Cheers, Bill

Here we go again . . . this odd notion of "collective" guilt that seems to be impeding our discourse these days. The #metoo and #me-too-TOO movement. I've always thought Zee rocked as well, but the point was never to question whether her experience was "real." After the type of exposure she has had her perspective is quite understandably all too real. It's instead the conclusions she's drawn from her experiences that's the rub. I admittedly had some trouble deciphering her writing, but if what she was saying is that there are more male pervs out in the general population than people not exposed to this element might otherwise think, then based on her personal experiences her point is probably well taken. And if that translates into the boating world, then again it makes a lot of sense. But if for some reason there is a higher percentage sailing around on boats, then it becomes more dubious whether her own experience or any more objective data supports this. The point is that, to the extent she stereotyped all or a majority of male solo sailors, then this is obviously incorrect and apparently offensive to some.

Most of us are about as capable as understanding what Zee feels as you are capable of understanding how your black neighbor feels. But that shouldn't disqualify us from having a conversation with a friend & neighbor who has suffered unlawful abuse at the hands of law enforcement. Whether it's the small minority of child molesters purportedly out there singlehanding their boats or its the small percentage of bad cops, feeling personally responsible for such bad actors merely because you share the same gender or skin color is a superficially selfish indulgence that does nothing to help your friend.

If you really want to help as opposed to trying to make yourself feel better, I would suggest urging him to have a consultation with a good civil rights attorney. If his treatment by LE was unjustified then it's highly likely others have been unlawfully abused as well. As you seem to acknowledge, your personal feelings of guilt -- no doubt well-intended -- only get in the way of having that conversation.

[Tayana42]

Originally Posted by montenido

Okay folks,
I have read and kept up with this entire thread. Although some, not all, men find Zee's comments insulting, I do not. As a white male in America, I have been extended many privileges that most consider "rights". I am generally considered "safe" when I run into police officers. I am not worried about rape or discrimination. And I'm sure there are many other things I am not thinking of.

I live in a nice rural neighborhood that is largely white in population. My very good friend, a black man who also owns a home here, has a different perspective on things. He has been repeatedly pulled over by our local sheriffs, made to lie on the ground, and even had his two daughters, who were in the car, be asked if they were there on their own free will.

So, can I realistically discuss racism with him? Can I say with authority that I know how he feels? All the reading in the world will not put me on his level of experience and discomfort. So I say to all of you men, even though you might be offended by some of Zee's comments, how can you possibly say that her experience is not "real"? We men have not been subjected to all that Zee and some others have been talking about, probably ever in our lives. I say give the women some room to tell us about us. Certainly, we are not all pervs and molesters, but apparently, a good number are. Have any of you been watching the news lately? The "Me Too" movement? I am disgusted by the pervasiveness of men abusing power in our society, and even more so that it was fairly common knowledge by those around these predators, people who did nothing about it.

Zee and the other women who have posted, I thank you for giving us an un-varnished look at your world. Just like with my neighborhood friend, most of us "normal" males just can't see the forest for the trees, because we have never walked that particular path, let alone lived it. All we can do as "normal" males is help to change the world by being nice and trustworthy, and to make women feel safe in our presence.

Ok, I'm done. Zee you rock!!

Cheers, Bill

[emoji106]

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by cyan

Fixed it already. Phil's not really a dolt. Pretty sure.
Band name!

Hey I can take it.. and I never mentioned it before because 'Crass' is, what it is.. only funny when you say it..
But.. I am not backward in coming forward if needs be.. it just was not worth the effort at the time.
I only mentioned it as an example for the oh so sensitive souls who felt slighted by what they considered a crass attack on the male of the species.
Some folks are nice, but can on occasion be ar$ehole$.. others are ar$ehole$ who can occasionally be nice..
I am much simpler.. a full time ar$ehole..

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Exile

If you really want to help as opposed to trying to make yourself feel better, I would suggest urging him to have a consultation with a good civil rights attorney. If his treatment by LE was unjustified then it's highly likely others have been unlawfully abused as well. As you seem to acknowledge, your personal feelings of guilt -- no doubt well-intended -- only get in the way of having that conversation.

The only trouble with this theory is that the odds are stacked against him.. and time after time 'legal' outcomes support the fact


https://news.vice.com/en_ca/article/...indigenous-man

[Exile]

Originally Posted by boatman61

The only trouble with this theory is that the odds are stacked against him.. and time after time 'legal' outcomes support the fact


https://news.vice.com/en_ca/article/...indigenous-man

Not a theory but I would agree that it's usually difficult to avail oneself of one's rights when up against powerful entities. Not always on account of racism, but other more complex & nuanced factors don't sell newspapers. This is no comment on the verdict in Canada since I don't know all the facts before that particular jury. But I do know there are many incidents involving black or other minority cops accused of illegality towards black victims, white cops vs. white victims, black cops vs. white victims, and various combos in btwn. Cops on video shooting a white mentally ill homeless guy camping out out in the desert, with two separate, mixed race juries failing to convict. These incidents rarely comport with what is reported in the media, and the reported facts are all too often influenced by some outside party's agenda.

Are there bad cops out there motivated by racism? Sure, and there are child molesters sailing around on boats. But the danger of leaping to stereotyped conclusions is that individual bad actors can then slip through the cracks, and the stigma of collective guilt can thwart earnest conversation and effective solutions. Always have to look at motivations of outside parties, whether it's selling newspapers, politicians wanting to keep their office, advocacy groups keeping the donations flowing, etc. Compared to such powerful interests, there is very little "privilege" bestowed upon sympathetic individuals who happen to be male and have white skin.

[cyan]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I am much simpler.. a full time ar$ehole..

I think we would get along famously.
I have some colorful friends.
The old lady with the bird poop on her boat (and too many cats) I mentioned in the opening post is also a bit of an ar$e... but funny as hell to drink with. She rants about the government, grizzly bears, and thinks almost everyone else means her harm... but the STORIES are awesome.
Oh, and if you have finally sorted out who's whom here, you'll note that I don't think that the common upper body strength difference in genders matters much, as long as people simply get in shape a little for the physical challenge before them.
See? Famously, I tell you.

[sailorcherry]

Why don't you guys spend less time on this thread and go work on your boat projects or better yet go SAIL?!

PS- But before you do that, read Bill's response. It's spot on and some of you could really benefit by at least hearing him out.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I am much simpler.. a full time ar$ehole..

Not just getting along famously & sharing stories (whether true or not ), but you obviously meet the most important characteristic that I would look for in a delivery captain.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by sailorcherry

Why don't you guys spend less time on this thread and go work on your boat projects or better yet go SAIL?!

Can't sail right now and it helps with the required procrastination phase before resuming boat projects.

[cyan]

Originally Posted by sailorcherry

Why don't you guys spend less time on this thread and go work on your boat projects or better yet go SAIL?!
PS- But before you do that, read Bill's response. It's spot on and some of you could really benefit by at least hearing him out.

If there was a live debate going on with a little controversy, and someone walked up and declared:
"Everyone stop talking and go away, but first listen to that one guy who says stuff I agree with, and THEN go away".
Well... it could be a modern way of debating, but some old school people might just laugh at this.

More importantly, sailorcherry, how do you weigh in on the upper body strength on boats argument regarding genders. I don't think it matters much at all, personally.