Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

[Olddan1943]

Affairs, remember it take two to tango.

[owly]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

Someone's children are going need to keep this place going. Too much responsibility for some I guess

That's more than a bit insulting....... It's realistic in terms of our idiotic socioeconomic structure that depends on constant growth, but that's a system doomed to collapse and to destroy the very planet we depend on to support human life. Population growth must be reversed or nature will take it's course, and it won't be pretty.



To imply that choosing not to reproduce is somehow shirking a responsibility is insulting and unrealistic. Any idiot can make a baby, and unfortunately they do... all too often. Hillary was castigated for quoting an African proverb: "It takes a village to raise a child". A wise and profound proverb. Those of us who make the choice not to reproduce can still be part of that "village".


H.W.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by owly

I made the decision not to father children, when I was in my early teens. Seeing the destruction of the places I loved as a result of the ever increasing population convinced me that while I could not solve the problem, at least I didn't have to be a part of it.



That decision has stayed with me for all my adult life, and had the unfortunate effect that the women I cared enough about that I could have made a lifetime commitment to were not available to me as a result.

I'm not sure why the women I'm strongly attracted to and with whom I have a real spiritual as well as a physical attraction have always been women who wanted family....... perhaps opposites attract. I can't imagine getting in the middle of the train wreck that is a broken family...... I simply do not have the energy, though there are many single mothers I have been very close to.... as well as their children. I've always loved children and connected well with them, and they often listen to me and respect me when other adults have difficulty with them. Perhaps because I respect them and listen to them, and treat them as "real" people. That however has never shaken my resolve. I like happily married women.... double underline "happily".

The result has been mostly shallow relationships, though often of considerable duration...... two people who meet each other's immediate needs for companionship, mutual support and sex. I've made the mistake twice of getting involved with real "sex kittens".... "anything, anytime, anywhere"....They have been seriously damaged people, and it appears that they always are.

That leaves me at an age where the family thing is no longer an issue, but the baggage the pool of prospective partners are carrying around is often huge. I've led a life largely free of drama, and am ill equipped to deal with it..... The perfect partner may be out there for me... but I seriously doubt it, and am not expending effort in a search.


H.W.

Hi HW,
Seems we made that same early decision and comitment to NOT procreate around the same time as teenagers.

For the same concern about overpopulation, but for me, also a fear of loosing my objectivity, if I became a father.

I accept totally for selfish reasons and I've never regretted that freedom to look at the world's tribal rationalisations from an independent perspective.

Interesting what you say about children being attracted to you and I think your right that we talk to them with an adult to adult tone, rather than parent to child (or young adult).

Had the same heartbreaking experiences with the baby issue in those serious and "committed" relationships, but never regretted moving on when my partner issued that "I want your baby ultimatum".[emoji49]

One observation I made in my sea travels to remote cultures like Micronesia and other Pacific Island groups, was the concept and practice of extended families.

It seemed to be tailor made for childless couples, who were given a share of the children's upbringing.

I found this to a lessor degree in the Philippine provinces, where the children are happily shared with other family groups. This seems to have made a difference with my Filipino partner of 14 years, who while childless, freely enjoys helping to look after other children but is happy to give them back when we go travelling.[emoji4]

Vive la differance!

[Bob Morane]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

Someone's children are going need to keep this place going. Too much responsibility for some I guess

Damn, that's a short-sighted and judgmental post if I ever saw one.

[cyan]

Originally Posted by owly

I made the decision not to father children, when I was in my early teens. Seeing the destruction of the places I loved as a result of the ever increasing population convinced me that while I could not solve the problem, at least I didn't have to be a part of it.

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Hi HW,
Seems we made that same early decision and comitment to NOT procreate around the same time as teenagers.
For the same concern about overpopulation, but for me, also a fear of loosing my objectivity, if I became a father.

There ya go.
Two apparently intelligent, thoughtful guys who intentionally removed their own intelligent, thoughtful genes from homo sapien sapien forever.
What would Darwin say?
A new theory?
Natural De-Selection?

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by cyan

There ya go.
Two apparently intelligent, thoughtful guys who intentionally removed their own intelligent, thoughtful genes from homo sapien sapien forever.
What would Darwin say?
A new theory?
Natural De-Selection?

That is typical of an individual's tribal bias, assuming that ones genes are the key to intelligent offspring, more deserving of Darwinian success, rather than others.

I prefer to think that your IQ is a function of early positive interactions during infant stage. And that my friend is hard to do when the mother has 5-8 kids and the father has no job.

[ImaginaryNumber]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

That is typical of an individual's tribal bias, assuming that ones genes are the key to intelligent offspring, more deserving of Darwinian success, rather than others.

I prefer to think that your IQ is a function of early positive interactions during infant stage. And that my friend is hard to do when the mother has 5-8 kids and the father has no job.

Some think that high IQ is a function both of Nature (genes) and Nurture (community environment)

The nature and nurture of high IQ: An extended sensitive period for intellectual development

Nature beats nurture as more than 60% of a child's intelligence comes from parents

[CatNewBee]

A high IQ is not always a competitive advantage for reproduction in nature.

People with high IQ have usually less children and have hard times finding a partner (nerds) - nobody really likes smart people, other factors seem to be more attractive.

Also people with higher education / higher IQ seem to be less happy in their lives, they think too much about them instead of enjoying them.

[Boatguy30]

That sorta was my point. If you look at rhe money people seem to lavish on pets these days as they cart them around in strollers or baby carriers.

We're clearly on an reverse Darwinism track overall.

[ImaginaryNumber]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

A high IQ is not always a competitive advantage for reproduction in nature.

People with high IQ have usually less children and have hard times finding a partner (nerds) - nobody really likes smart people, other factors seem to be more attractive.

Also people with higher education / higher IQ seem to be less happy in their lives, they think too much about them instead of enjoying them.

Possibly more true in the past than now. There seems to be social media groups for just about any demographic you can think of. I understand there is even an active group catering to folks who have nothing better to do than sail around in circles.

[cyan]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

That is typical of an individual's tribal bias, assuming that ones genes are the key to intelligent offspring, more deserving of Darwinian success, rather than others.

I prefer to think that your IQ is a function of early positive interactions during infant stage. And that my friend is hard to do when the mother has 5-8 kids and the father has no job.

Malarkey.
Yet, well-argued.
Thoughtful, sensitive.
You reinforced my point.

[john61ct]

Yes past a certain point intelligence is more of a curse than a blessing.

Does **not** on average make you happier, that is for sure.

And certainly does not in itself make you more "successful" in mainstream society's terms.

[gamayun]

Oh please. Y'all's ideas about high IQ people (or the reasons for the lack thereof) are uninformed and insulting. It's unfortunate where this thread is going. It had been fun up to now.

[john61ct]

> early positive interactions during infant stage. And that my friend is hard to do when the mother has 5-8 kids and the father has no job.

Wow must've missed that.

What a total crock!

Such a situatiin is no problem at all in a well-civilized country that properly supports its struggling citizens, sees child-raising as a social good, not putting it all on parents.

The problem you speak of is caused by heartless cruelty towards the poor, and is unique to the US within the developed world.

"Our" economy is currently **very** "healthy, doing great"! Yet 40-50% of our children are growing up in poverty, about half of those in actually food-insecure households. Over 2% are homeless, in NY it's 10%, and that's out of those **attending** school. Those without health insurance coverage has very successfully been reduced to "only" 5% in 2017, but of course that progress is constantly threatened.

[Olddan1943]

Originally Posted by gamayun

Oh please. Y'all's ideas about high IQ people (or the reasons for the lack thereof) are uninformed and insulting. It's unfortunate where this thread is going. It had been fun up to now.

Some folks just do not want to have children, for whatever their reasons are.
SHRUG.