Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

[john61ct]

Put them in charge completely for a thousand years.

I say the world would be a much better place within the first century.

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

All that seems to indicate is that women are smarter and tougher than men

"Hey, Katie, hold my beer and watch this" said no woman ever.

Actually, that's not quite true in the piney barrens of North Florida where I do recall hearing this from time to time, but it wasn't often and it only happened after a lot of drinking at large parties way back in the woods, usually near a sinkhole or river, which made things even more interesting.

And to the poster who implied that (white) male privilege doesn't exist? Puleaze. It's not worth the time even debating a notion like that.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

All that seems to indicate is that women are smarter and tougher than men

Really? I'm not understanding what you mean here.

Originally Posted by BandB

I think privilege is the wrong word. It's power. It's then abuse of power.

I think privilege is the wrong word too, but that's because it's used to mislead, politicize, and divide under the guise of social reform, so it seems to belie definition. I used it here as a bit of tongue-in-cheek since I'm still not entirely sure which of several possible messages the Woman's March is trying to send. There seem to be many, and 'male privilege' & (even better) 'white male privilege' seem to be default bogeymen these days for all sorts of ills people are apparently feeling.

Those who abuse their power by sexually harassing the opposite sex are generally very abusive to the same sex as well, just not sexually. How often you hear, "well, I knew he was an a...hole, I just didn't know he was doing that." They typically abuse their power in very many ways.

And the type & source of their power varies in many ways, whether it's physical, position, wealth, smarts, emotional, etc. And that allows women to abuse their significant power as well. But for abusive males who engage in sexual harassment & worse, how many women are also responsible for allowing it to continue because of self-interest, political correctness, career advancement, or other personal or professional agendas? Do we really believe Roy Moore's hitting on underage girls only occurred 40 years ago? But he's a man of god and a judge so it couldn't be so. Do you think Bill could ever have gotten away with what he did over the course of his career without Hillary covering for him? You know, Hillary the self-appointed champion of women's rights? Have we heard from any woman (or man) who credibly claims was not aware of Harvey W.'s awful reputation? And how about all of these women I see defending Aziz Ansari from obviously abusive behavior (if true) inflicted on 'Grace'. Is it because Ansari declared himself a 'feminist' and wears a 'Time's Up' button on his lapel? Abuse of power indeed Wifey B., but abuse that it seems has also been excused or ignored by some of the same women who are out marching today.

Now, as to the things in the chart you showed. I'd say those are tied to power as well and an inability to handle it properly.

Which ones would those be? How much power do men who make up the majority of manual laborers enjoy when they perform dangerous jobs in order to support their wives & children, suffering a disproportionate share of workplace fatalities? And what accounts for their higher suicide rates? And how exactly is homelessness a result of power and the inability to handle it? A connection bwtn male homicide victims & power? How does that work?

Traditionally more men have been in positions of power than women. However, women who find themselves in positions of power sometimes abuse it too.

True enough, but also an overly simplistic if not convenient way of considering the problem. It's not an us v. them scenario, and women along with men are both part of the problem and the solution. Victimization may be and often is justified, but I'm dubious about whether it leads to productive & lasting solutions.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by gamayun

"Hey, Katie, hold my beer and watch this" said no woman ever.

Actually, that's not quite true in the piney barrens of North Florida where I do recall hearing this from time to time, but it wasn't often and it only happened after a lot of drinking at large parties way back in the woods, usually near a sinkhole or river, which made things even more interesting.

Yes, some guys definitely have a knack for making things interesting . . . and fun! Life would be pretty boring without our gender differences, no?

And to the poster who implied that (white) male privilege doesn't exist? Puleaze. It's not worth the time even debating a notion like that.

Agreed! But maybe if a credible & relevant definition is offered it might be worth debating after all.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by Olddan1943

It is known that women control 3/4 of the money and all of the p++++.
How much more power do you want?

It is known that many men have their heads buried in the sand, but then they've been divorced multiple times.

I hope your comment was intended as humor because in the business world where the questions of abuse prevail that's just not the way things are and in relationships that's not how the money sits either.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

All that seems to indicate is that women are smarter and tougher than men

Oh cmon, Pelagic your better than that. If that chart was about women not men, would you say that? There lies one of the problems, double standards when it comes to commentary.

Johns comment, put women in charge for 1000 years and things will be better... you know this how? Another stupid unqualified comment. Both comments above are prejudice.

And WifeyB's comment linking power to those figures, well if that suits your view of world so be it. Women have alot of power in alot of areas that is conveniently not seen, it dosent suit the argument.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Put them in charge completely for a thousand years.

I say the world would be a much better place within the first century.

The last centuries have demonstrated that every movement or cause requires an enemy or bogeyman to try & garner popularity & achieve success. These days the enemy du jour seems to be the "privileged white male," and so we have all of these (mostly) young white males trying very hard to be anything but. Regardless of the actual sins of the present & past, I think this idea of collective guilt is rather silly and, more importantly, entirely pointless towards achieving the desired goals. But that's just my opinion and I'm happy to read yours.

Btw, the modern world has already seen many women leaders, and it seems there are more now than ever. Some were successful leaders & made improvements, others not so much, and still others are considered failures (by some). In other words, just like men.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by BandB

It is known that many men have their heads buried in the sand, but then they've been divorced multiple times.

Really not nice, Wifey B. Just like insulting a man's choice to marry a woman of a different nationality or background.

I hope your comment was intended as humor because in the business world where the questions of abuse prevail that's just not the way things are and in relationships that's not how the money sits either.

I assume you mean the same business world where women have made huge progress in achieving parity in positions & pay? Are you aware that more women than men are now attending college, have larger than ever enrollment in graduate schools, and are starting to dominate some of the professions? Have they achieved overall equality with men, however that is defined? Probably not, but the trend is certainly positive.

As for relationships & marriages, who really knows but I've seen finances handled in a myriad of different ways. In fact, if the husband is the primary breadwinner then it's often the wife who controls & manages the money. Sometimes it's the other way around, other times it's handled differently altogether. Is there male abuse & female victimization when it comes to money? Of course. Is this more prevalent than the opposite? How do you know? Or is this just the way you'd prefer to see it?

[cyan]

It is simply human nature to pick a bogeyman as each passionate cause needs an enemy, as Exile stated. Thoughtful humans eventually will recognize the childish, divisive absurdity of the disparaging of one group in the effort to uplift a different group. Nobody will ever successfully assign to ME an iota of guilt because of my skin color or gender, or because of something bad done by someone who looked like me. The souls who own such mistakes will no doubt be frowned upon in future history books, defining the true hypocrites of their time.

Men and women are different, and I believe that is awesome, and to be celebrated. I think we can all do a better job in helping those who feel UNDER-privileged when we come together and try to understand each other. Pointing the privilege finger clearly pushes us apart. I vote for a group hug instead, but I can't really find a group-hug emoticon that looks less than PG-13.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Oh cmon, Pelagic your better than that.

Hi Dale..,
the point I was making is that you can see anything you want if you apply a strong enough personal bias.

The only thing I believe is that men and women are different but equal.

The rest is a Leonard Cohen song of Love and Hate

[weavis]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

The only thing I believe is that men and women are different but equal.

Hmm. Define equal...

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by weavis

Hmm. Define equal...

Equal in expectations....

ie: not hampered by any preconceived stereotypes that are applied to their gender roles

[daletournier]

I found this read refreshing, long but refreshing.

https://www.the-american-interest.co...-warlock-hunt/

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by daletournier

I found this read refreshing, long but refreshing.

https://www.the-american-interest.co...-warlock-hunt/

Hi Dale
I am reading many similar articles written by women, who are trying to temper the Sexual McCarthyism that I warned about months ago in this Thread.

If anything is to be learned from that old movie
" A Boy and his Dog" is that men will eventually withdraw from the confusing ambiguity of flirting with women and align with more extreme solutions of survival.

https://youtu.be/aru48PHXq_Y

[wolfgal]

Oh my... uhm, ok, please know that i am boycotting reality more or less these days..., and this because i've really got too much on my plate. i say this yet i do find the time to keep my eye on what i deem to be the most important player in these times: mother nature.... just to give you the overall picture: in the 80's i knew an old italian sailor who would say, "after God, the weather" and i always wondered why he separated the two...

so yes, what i'm about to write is very subjective, if not naive and simplistic. i admit it! for me, my words here are not debatable as such because this is just the way i perceive things (and i haven't been reading as much as used to either...). for that matter, it is not really even an opinion as much as it is a perspective. and there is a significant difference for me: i've been out of it for a while now and so have been on the sidelines, much like someone watching a bike race in a huge crowd. here goes:

when i was in the states in 20-16 (yes, election time). i was in a part of the country that was more than certain that it would become 'great' again. the deep south... and when i felt less intimidated, i'd ask (over and over again, in a matter-of-fact tone) 'but if you vote for him, who is going to run the country?' it got so bad that i stopped talking with people, reading or listening to the news.

for me, once the vermont-man was eliminated, the election had no longer any brains, any IQ, and more importantly, any heart. suddenly, it became about which candidate potentially provided the less worse outcome. we could probably agree on how the whole thing was just utterly pathetic.

and the tactics used disgusted me: i saw my country being hopelessly divided as never before: the middle class was pit against the poor; the 'upright' against those who are not straight. for me, it pitted the "great" against the not-so-great. for me, H was there pretending to care so to get the crowd rooting for the guy with the biggest heart (the vermont-man).

i saw the issues being discussed as smokescreens, as a means of hiding much bigger interests, those of wealthy businesses. beneath these tactics, i imagined big-business interests in a face-to face boxing match (each candidate, a puppet representing corrupt and extremely competitive big interests). it was so sad how their strategies of creating conflict between its poor and working poor and even middle class was working... and did anyone notice that without the vermont-man, the rich were eclipsed, forgotten, and thus seemed so innocent?

during this time, i kept thinking about the jimmy carter election in '76. i was a kid then, and my grandparents were taking my sis and me to nearly every single state in their camper. they listened to the news on the radio every night and were so excitedly happy when he won. i kept recalling the values that were discussed over the radio, in their camper and just couldn't come to accept the present situation: this election, happening years later, seemed so surreal!

then it was done. i became so depressed, so utterly depressed to even think of what what happening to my home (thank goodness i could return to europe!). yet, even though i tuned out, i couldn't miss how the first group of americans to tangibly lose out after the elections were women. and yes, i remember how they marched with their pussy hats. and i was so proud of them. for me it was obvious that women needed to point out that we really and truly do not want the return to the times of the hangar.

then the guy in charge started in with his demeaning comments... just as a creep and a bully would. he opened pandora's box. a few sex stories later, and the straw broke the camel's back. so it is no wonder we've had a rebound effect with all of these women coming to the forefront saying they had been raped or abused by men. individually, women felt the need to say, enough is enough. collectively, women feel the need to say, enough is enough. this said, for me, they are speaking up against abuse, not all men.

so, i ask myself why WE (on this thread, in a little cockpit enjoying a beer together) would fall into the men vs women debate at all. i see us as being in the same boat, on the same team, each bringing the best of ourselves as we express opinions and seeing the perspectives of one another. we've gotten through a lot already...

but knowing how i tend to be an optimist and see the best in people, i am open to question myself: am i really just a flowerchild or are these women like me deep down? so i ask myself these questions:

are these women marching against their husbands, their ex's, their bosses. my feeling is that, even though the individual stories getting screen time make it look so, the underlying principles of this march are much more large-scale and political than this.

could it be that the women marching clearly see the ultra-right (that would prefer them in the home) hiding behind a clown doing his world-famous smokescreen number? my feeling is yes. definitely.

and are they not marching against other aspects of the ultra-right? my sis and her son have obamacare... how many women out there need obamacare because their jobs don't not provide benefits and they do not make enough to pay for bluecross bluesheild or whatever? my feeling is yes.

and are they not marching because it is unacceptable, downright unacceptable that a country turn its back on their own, like puerto rico, and the environment and even their worldwide friendships? my feeling is yes

and isn't it unacceptable that a top authority tempt himself with red buttons? is it not unacceptable to raise kids with the feeling that it could happen any day now, on some guy's whim? my feeling is yes.

and isn't it unacceptable, to side with he who condones those who light bonfires and dress in white hooded robes? and isn't it wrong to call a country a 'hole' of any kind?

and isn't it unacceptable that a foreign country be associated in playing cards in our democratic process at all?

for me, the fact that the focus is placed on female vs male is a distraction. it is about the abuse of power. to twist information to turn people against one another is a smokescreen tactic, like the attention given to the mexican border and the claim that mexico will going to pay for it...


so why would the ultra-right need to use a clown to throw the crowd smokescreens?

the answer for me is simple. it suffices to look at what legislation is happening, the bill that are being passed. for instance, the war on obamacare (and everything obama - whether you like him or not is not of importance). and then tax laws are being passed that allow mega riches to remain with the mega-richest folks: imagine an 11 million dollar tax cut! geez! is this acceptable? or is this an abouse of power? for me, legislation is working in the interest of the ultra-right (to the detriment of women, the environment, social structures and services (and this doesn't mean i'm going to side up with the democrats...).

beyond this, indian lands and protected lands are being vied so to be blasted for every drop of gas. geez, do we really want to invest money in a short-term solution to a long-term problem? do we really want to live with this kind of guilt? isn't this an abuse of power?

even though most women work full-time and then go home to care for their kids (as do men, but there are 'second shift' stats that give women a bit more of the chores), i think women have taken note of these things and care.

i think they have also noticed how many times the islands get blasted with category 4 and 5 storms. i think they have thought about what will happen (given current conditions) if the next Irma turned and made landfall. or if that long-awaited earthquake hit california... i think women are concerned about the impact of a rising sea level coupled by these storms... the effect on animals and natural habitat.

and before everyone starts in with the typical debate issues concerning the environment, please, please please see my perspective on this:

for me, even this topic of the environment has been twisted so to pit all of us against one another. instead of asking if it is the fault of humans, should we not be focusing on doing what we can to prevent the mess and clean up the mess? after all, the mess is happening. the mess is here. plastics getting caught in our propellers for starters...

to debate whether mankind created the changes or not is another smokescreen designed to pit us against one another. for me, the smokescreens serve to keep us from asking ourselves this: what kind of future is coming at us? what about tomorrow?

so, you might now reply and say to me that the women marching only care about themselves (their rights, their paychecks and the shoes they can buy), but my feeling is that women do concern themselves with the long-term.

as a whole, i feel that we worry about our children's welfare and even our grandchildren's welfare, right up the staircase of time. this is not to say that you men do not. i'm sure each of you here does. and this is why we can gain a higher perspective together and avoid tearing one another apart.

so... well... as i said, this is my naive perspective. i am not active in these marches because i do not see the male vs. female being my primary concern (even if my own experiences could propel me to do so). i see men and women being very capable of working together, striving together to make our homes, small-scale and large (right up to the planet) a better place. sofiphilia.

as for the old italian sailor... he died of pneumonia on his boat in the canary islands in 1990, alone. and i can still hear him say, "after God, the weather" and still, to this day, wonder why people continue to separate the two...