Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

[CaptJamesCook]

So your boat does not love you any more, but you are still footing the bills..?

[wolfgal]

Originally Posted by daletournier

BTW, Cyan I've experienced that Filipino village life, rich but no money, it's a beautiful and very humbling thing, the laughter you talked about is just incredibly refreshing. Love the kids. The community, the family etc, those incredible attributes I'm not sure we have anymore. It brings out a better me.

When i read these words, i was taken aback: this is what my ideal looked like when i was in my 20's, because i had it in my heart to raise my kids on a sailboat. i had a plan... i saw myself taking them out of at least a few years of school, out of the Western way of life (against the wishes of everyone back home, of course), to quietly and politely share in these types of experiences. i imagined them fixing stuff, repairing stuff, taking care of their environment, being frugal, being thankful, being generous and being quick to adapt and to think on their feet. when not sharing in these kinds of communities, we were a happy and healthy family of four on a boat (nine t-shirts, six pair of shorts, and four pairs of flip-flops): this was the ideal upbringing in my world

...of course the years leapt by...

and now, in my in-between thoughts, i've found myself hoping that there is still laughter to be heard. i'm surely not alone to feel unsettled by the intensification of the cyclones and hurricanes and other extreme conditions...

geez this sounds sad... sorry everyone. the comic relief that came with whole air fryer bit did feel great!

Back to our meandering topic..., there is something that i've wanted to express for a while here. it is rather delicate and not easy to formulate:

i've genuinely enjoyed the way in which Dale and Pelagic and Cyan and others on here have attempted to convey how they've appreciated the encounters they've had and especially how much they feel joy with their mates. The word that keeps hovering above and along the tones in their voices (i'm dyslexic, so words literally float around upstairs) is Harmony.

it's got to be healthy to remind ourselves of and share in the feeling of living in harmony with one's environment, in harmony within one's community, in harmony within one's family, in harmony within one's couple... when one's children laugh and smile... when a bunch of kids are laughing and smiling...

beyond reminding us that this is what it is essentially all about, Dale's concluding words "It brings out a better me" point to the fact that, as humans, we are nourished by this on the deepest level

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by boatman61

The Universal cry.. [emoji3]

Perfect Boatie......
Used to him sing song all the time after a breakup

Horny young men are such Animals !

[weavis]

Air Fryer.. comic relief?!

I'll have you know its serious stuff man!!

[alansmith]

Forgive me if i weigh in so late on this topic of western men being involved with foreign women.

I am one of those kids who was raised in a military family. It affected me. I lived in Japan, Philippines, Guam, and Hawaii multiple times. So, i am more comfortable with Asian people than i am with Caucasian people. I am married to a Chinese woman from Beijing.

To those posters who decry the western male getting involved with Asian or foreign women...and do it in a seedy way...man, I'm like you. They should all be thrashed to within an inch of their life. Up to and including surgical removal (or any other means deemed appropriate) of certain anatomical parts that may have been involved in said crimes. There are some very messed up people who are really nothing more than sex tourists....or sociopaths...

But there is a different side of international relationships that some of you don't have any experience in. I want to share with you my insights and real life experience with.

I have been married three times. My first wife was the mother of my children and a good mother. In fact, my children could not have had a better mother. But once the children came i lost my wife. She could not be a wife and a mother. It was not in her ability. Towards the very end of our 17 year marriage i was coming down the stairs and she was siting on the couch cramming for an exam. She looked stressed. I asked her if i could make her some toast and pour a glass of juice. As i handed it to her she looked up at me with tears streaming down her face. I asked her what had happened. She said, "Do you realize that this is the first breakfast you have made for me in 17 years?" The arrow unleashed from her quiver of husband sorrows ....my God...how do u respond? How had i become so insensitive ...such a heel...so unthinking? May i say in my poor defense that i was working 70 hour work weeks trying to keep kids in private school, dance, piano, sports, scouts, and church active events? My wife was a full time mom. I am one of those guys who had become a good provider but a terrible husband. Somehow i lost my way. After a very bad divorce i spent the next 10 years barely scrapping by.

Then one day i awoke and it was lightening up financially. I decided to go to Russia and see the Kremlin, Bolshoi, St Petersburg, Hermitage, and the like. I had a tour guide named Larisa for a week. At the end of the week she said, "you are a very nice man, would you like to meet one of my single girlfriends who speaks English and is a tour guide for the Kremlin?" I said okay. We met and it was awkward. She thought i was one of those guys who comes to play with girls. I said i came to see Russian culture. I hadn't even met a Russian woman until Larisa the tour guide introduced us. I said check it with her. I was very uncomfortable because she was so much younger than i was. I was 48 and she was 35. I told her that she was too young for me when i asked her age. She said, without a pause to calculate, "i am much older than you in my soul." Her son had been killed in front of her eyes by a bus 4 years prior to our meeting while living in Tunisia with her Russian husband. So, we agreed to meet later that evening for dinner. Somehow i offended her at dinner and she was sullen and withdrawn. I couldn't understand why. So, i told her i will be right back. i noticed a flower shop as we walked into the restaurant. So, i bought her 7 roses and presented it to her. Her eyes beamed. She got cat whisker lines adjacent to her nose as she smiled. The mood was perfect. She told me that i had paid more attention to her in those two hours we ate then she had from a man in the last 10 years. She went back to her apartment and we agreed to meet the next morning before i flew back home. We went to a standup cafe looking out on Red Square. The red walls of the Kremlin with Stalin's tomb in visible sight. We had tea and cookies. There was chemistry building. I asked her if i could hold her hand. She presented her hand to me. I noticed immediately that her hand was soaking wet. Her hands had been visible the whole time so i knew it was no cheap parlor trick. I knew at that instant that she was my woman. She said to me, " can you kiss me before you leave?" So, i leaned in and gave her a quick kiss on the lips. She said, "is that what you american men call a kiss?" I was laughing so hard that i thought i would pass out. So, i tried again with a little more passion. She replied, "that is pathetic." Now, i was ready to pass out because i couldn't breath.

I tell you this true story for a reason. In Russian society the ratio of men to women is skewed due to several major reasons. One is that, due to wars...(especially WWII)...so many men were killed that they never have caught up again. The second thing is that Russian men drink heavily and many die earlier than their western european counterparts. Russian society has a pervasive problem of womanizing and drinking. I lived in Russia for almost a year so i am not some 1 week visit type of guy who thinks he is an expert. It is huge problem for women in Russia.

I buried my sweetheart less than 2 years after we married due to breast cancer. I believe her cancer was caused by her severe stress of losing her son. I descended into madness for quite sometime.

I feel myself lucky to have met this woman and share our lives together. Maybe because i moved so much when i was young my mental settings are different than others who lived in one area as they grew up. I can say that i know at least 15-20 couples of American men who married eastern european women and i only know one couple that failed in their marriage. It was the woman who strayed...and i understand both her reasons and his nature...and i would say ...it wasn't good...but i understand it.

There are so many young beautiful women there that the competition is unbelievable for available men. It literally is impossible to find a mate. So, for those who want to judge men who marry foreign women as being a buyer of a young woman for sex and her getting a green card....it happens. But out of those many relationships i know of...they are normal husbands and wives and have lasted since the early 2000's when i met them. That is a much better percentage than the current american man with american wife versus the american man and foreign wife. So, that says something to me.

It is about companionship. Why do people feel a need to demonize other people's relationships? Would it not be better to seek to understand them? Seek to understand ...seek not to judge...biblical. There are many good American women and many good American men. I have enjoyed reading WifeyB, Meantherthal, Gaymun, ChiChi, and many good and balanced replies by men.

Foreign women are different than American women. But they still want the same things that all relationships want...respect, warmth, love, companionship, financial safety, and friendship. Where ever you can find it....and if it works for you....good.
But to say these women are selling their souls to get a green card...and then walk out on you as soon as they get it...or leave you for a younger man as soon as possible...
(yes it happens) But my personal experience....maybe i am a statistical outlier...and the 15-20 other relationships i know of are also statistical outliers too...but they are all together and doing ok....is that ...it works.

For a foreign woman...think about it....for her it is a huge risk. She will leave her entire support structure of siblings, parents, coworkers, language group, culture, food, and many other things. It is daunting if you look at her perspective. Some say it is only for the green card. Of the 15 or so other Russian-American relationships why are any of them still together if it was just a green card? Many of these ladies came to America and trained into jobs and work as many women do. One lady is a hairdresser, one a cosmetologist, one is an RN, one a dental hygenist, one a loan officer, one works for immigration as a interviewer, and on and on.

Do you know what a Medical Doctor makes for retirement in Belarus after 30 something years in the field? One of my wife's relatives who is the chief of nephrology will make less than 400 dollars a month. If you get sick in Russia you have to pay everything in cash. Your cash!!! Not the state's cash or the companies cash. The social net for retirement and medical is nil or absent. Hopefully it will improve.

Is there a financial component in foreign relationships? Of course there is. I asked my wife if she would have married me if i was flipping hamburgers at Mickey D's. She laughed in my face so devilishly. But can we say there are not same things in American -American relationships? How many female physicians do you know who marry the local dishwasher at Denny's (even if he is a stud muffin).

If you look at the literature of what is going on in American society and it's divorce rates, declining marriage rates of those who postpone or refuse to marry, it is partially financial and lack of interest in marriage due to financial liabilities involved in divorce law. Are there messed up men in America? Yes, there are. Are there messed up women in America. Yes, there are. It has become very strained and i think it is going to get a lot worse before it swings back to normal expectations and fairer treatment of both sexes in the legal system.

Please don't judge all foreign marriages as suspicious. I remember after my divorce back in 1990. I was going to church dances to meet single church ladies. During the dance with a woman she would basically do a 2 minute interview of you. Hi, where do you live? Do you own or rent it? What kind of work do you do? Where did you go to school? What kind of car do you drive? I kid you not. The interesting thing was all of the girls asked pretty much the same questions. It was surreal. In their defense...most of them in my dating age were hard working mothers with mouths to feed. Why waste your time on a guy who didn't have two dimes to rub together. When they find out you have child support of 1400 dollars a month, working almost two full time jobs to stay alive, and living with roommates...."see, Ya!" They were right to think that way. But it is like someone dropping a glass of ice water down your spine. Abrupt ending.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by alansmith

I asked my wife if she would have married me if i was flipping hamburgers at Mickey D's. She laughed in my face so devilishly.

* * *

How many female physicians do you know who marry the local dishwasher at Denny's (even if he is a stud muffin).

* * *

During the dance with a woman she would basically do a 2 minute interview of you. Hi, where do you live? Do you own or rent it? What kind of work do you do? Where did you go to school? What kind of car do you drive?

I've had similar experiences with women "interviewing" me about my financial situation, and doing it early on. It's uncomfortable to put it mildly. I can understand desiring a potential partner who is not burdened by significant financial liabilities, but conditioning a choice primarily on the extent of a person's assets or income seems awkward & inappropriate.

But the more perplexing question is whether this sort of early "screening" is more often done by women rather than men, or is perhaps more of a priority for them. If so, it seems completely at odds with modern notions of gender equality, and is suggestive of a double-standard. And if true, how is it really any different from a more affluent Western man marrying or forming a long-term relationship with a poorer woman from Asia or elsewhere? Wouldn't each case present a similar power imbalance and potential for abuse due to the disparate financial circumstances of each partner? Or do Western women feel they can rely on the court system to level the playing field?

I'm sure there are plenty out there, but I don't personally know any men who place a high priority on the finances of a woman he is dating or interested in. If he nevertheless finds it and it's even relevant for him, it's more likely in the "bonus" category. Am I unfairly generalizing or is there really an imbalance out there? If there is then how do women in general achieve full equality when there appear to be many who feel that they're entitled to rely on a man for financial support?

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by CaptJamesCook

I would have to say that this (CF) is not a good place for a single pole or wide net... what is the ratio here 1 single female to 500+ single males. LOL

That statistic infers that the single ladies here should have their pick of men to choose from. If that's the case, why is it that we are all still single? Is it us or is it the choice of single men here

[weavis]

Originally Posted by gamayun

why is it that we are all still single? Is it us or is it the choice of single men here

errrr..................

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by weavis

errrr..................

Come on, Weavis; don't be shy. Spit it out

[wolfgal]

Originally Posted by alansmith

Forgive me if i weigh in so late on this topic of western men being involved with foreign women.

I am one of those kids who was raised in a military family. It affected me. I lived in Japan, Philippines, Guam, and Hawaii multiple times. So, i am more comfortable with Asian people than i am with Caucasian people. I am married to a Chinese woman from Beijing.

To those posters who decry the western male getting involved with Asian or foreign women...and do it in a seedy way...man, I'm like you. They should all be thrashed to within an inch of their life. Up to and including surgical removal (or any other means deemed appropriate) of certain anatomical parts that may have been involved in said crimes. There are some very messed up people who are really nothing more than sex tourists....or sociopaths...

But there is a different side of international relationships that some of you don't have any experience in. I want to share with you my insights and real life experience with.

I have been married three times. My first wife was the mother of my children and a good mother. In fact, my children could not have had a better mother. But once the children came i lost my wife. She could not be a wife and a mother. It was not in her ability. Towards the very end of our 17 year marriage i was coming down the stairs and she was siting on the couch cramming for an exam. She looked stressed. I asked her if i could make her some toast and pour a glass of juice. As i handed it to her she looked up at me with tears streaming down her face. I asked her what had happened. She said, "Do you realize that this is the first breakfast you have made for me in 17 years?" The arrow unleashed from her quiver of husband sorrows ....my God...how do u respond? How had i become so insensitive ...such a heel...so unthinking? May i say in my poor defense that i was working 70 hour work weeks trying to keep kids in private school, dance, piano, sports, scouts, and church active events? My wife was a full time mom. I am one of those guys who had become a good provider but a terrible husband. Somehow i lost my way. After a very bad divorce i spent the next 10 years barely scrapping by.

Then one day i awoke and it was lightening up financially. I decided to go to Russia and see the Kremlin, Bolshoi, St Petersburg, Hermitage, and the like. I had a tour guide named Larisa for a week. At the end of the week she said, "you are a very nice man, would you like to meet one of my single girlfriends who speaks English and is a tour guide for the Kremlin?" I said okay. We met and it was awkward. She thought i was one of those guys who comes to play with girls. I said i came to see Russian culture. I hadn't even met a Russian woman until Larisa the tour guide introduced us. I said check it with her. I was very uncomfortable because she was so much younger than i was. I was 48 and she was 35. I told her that she was too young for me when i asked her age. She said, without a pause to calculate, "i am much older than you in my soul." Her son had been killed in front of her eyes by a bus 4 years prior to our meeting while living in Tunisia with her Russian husband. So, we agreed to meet later that evening for dinner. Somehow i offended her at dinner and she was sullen and withdrawn. I couldn't understand why. So, i told her i will be right back. i noticed a flower shop as we walked into the restaurant. So, i bought her 7 roses and presented it to her. Her eyes beamed. She got cat whisker lines adjacent to her nose as she smiled. The mood was perfect. She told me that i had paid more attention to her in those two hours we ate then she had from a man in the last 10 years. She went back to her apartment and we agreed to meet the next morning before i flew back home. We went to a standup cafe looking out on Red Square. The red walls of the Kremlin with Stalin's tomb in visible sight. We had tea and cookies. There was chemistry building. I asked her if i could hold her hand. She presented her hand to me. I noticed immediately that her hand was soaking wet. Her hands had been visible the whole time so i knew it was no cheap parlor trick. I knew at that instant that she was my woman. She said to me, " can you kiss me before you leave?" So, i leaned in and gave her a quick kiss on the lips. She said, "is that what you american men call a kiss?" I was laughing so hard that i thought i would pass out. So, i tried again with a little more passion. She replied, "that is pathetic." Now, i was ready to pass out because i couldn't breath.

I tell you this true story for a reason. In Russian society the ratio of men to women is skewed due to several major reasons. One is that, due to wars...(especially WWII)...so many men were killed that they never have caught up again. The second thing is that Russian men drink heavily and many die earlier than their western european counterparts. Russian society has a pervasive problem of womanizing and drinking. I lived in Russia for almost a year so i am not some 1 week visit type of guy who thinks he is an expert. It is huge problem for women in Russia.

I buried my sweetheart less than 2 years after we married due to breast cancer. I believe her cancer was caused by her severe stress of losing her son. I descended into madness for quite sometime.

I feel myself lucky to have met this woman and share our lives together. Maybe because i moved so much when i was young my mental settings are different than others who lived in one area as they grew up. I can say that i know at least 15-20 couples of American men who married eastern european women and i only know one couple that failed in their marriage. It was the woman who strayed...and i understand both her reasons and his nature...and i would say ...it wasn't good...but i understand it.

There are so many young beautiful women there that the competition is unbelievable for available men. It literally is impossible to find a mate. So, for those who want to judge men who marry foreign women as being a buyer of a young woman for sex and her getting a green card....it happens. But out of those many relationships i know of...they are normal husbands and wives and have lasted since the early 2000's when i met them. That is a much better percentage than the current american man with american wife versus the american man and foreign wife. So, that says something to me.

It is about companionship. Why do people feel a need to demonize other people's relationships? Would it not be better to seek to understand them? Seek to understand ...seek not to judge...biblical. There are many good American women and many good American men. I have enjoyed reading WifeyB, Meantherthal, Gaymun, ChiChi, and many good and balanced replies by men.

Foreign women are different than American women. But they still want the same things that all relationships want...respect, warmth, love, companionship, financial safety, and friendship. Where ever you can find it....and if it works for you....good.
But to say these women are selling their souls to get a green card...and then walk out on you as soon as they get it...or leave you for a younger man as soon as possible...
(yes it happens) But my personal experience....maybe i am a statistical outlier...and the 15-20 other relationships i know of are also statistical outliers too...but they are all together and doing ok....is that ...it works.

For a foreign woman...think about it....for her it is a huge risk. She will leave her entire support structure of siblings, parents, coworkers, language group, culture, food, and many other things. It is daunting if you look at her perspective. Some say it is only for the green card. Of the 15 or so other Russian-American relationships why are any of them still together if it was just a green card? Many of these ladies came to America and trained into jobs and work as many women do. One lady is a hairdresser, one a cosmetologist, one is an RN, one a dental hygenist, one a loan officer, one works for immigration as a interviewer, and on and on.

Do you know what a Medical Doctor makes for retirement in Belarus after 30 something years in the field? One of my wife's relatives who is the chief of nephrology will make less than 400 dollars a month. If you get sick in Russia you have to pay everything in cash. Your cash!!! Not the state's cash or the companies cash. The social net for retirement and medical is nil or absent. Hopefully it will improve.

Is there a financial component in foreign relationships? Of course there is. I asked my wife if she would have married me if i was flipping hamburgers at Mickey D's. She laughed in my face so devilishly. But can we say there are not same things in American -American relationships? How many female physicians do you know who marry the local dishwasher at Denny's (even if he is a stud muffin).

If you look at the literature of what is going on in American society and it's divorce rates, declining marriage rates of those who postpone or refuse to marry, it is partially financial and lack of interest in marriage due to financial liabilities involved in divorce law. Are there messed up men in America? Yes, there are. Are there messed up women in America. Yes, there are. It has become very strained and i think it is going to get a lot worse before it swings back to normal expectations and fairer treatment of both sexes in the legal system.

Please don't judge all foreign marriages as suspicious. I remember after my divorce back in 1990. I was going to church dances to meet single church ladies. During the dance with a woman she would basically do a 2 minute interview of you. Hi, where do you live? Do you own or rent it? What kind of work do you do? Where did you go to school? What kind of car do you drive? I kid you not. The interesting thing was all of the girls asked pretty much the same questions. It was surreal. In their defense...most of them in my dating age were hard working mothers with mouths to feed. Why waste your time on a guy who didn't have two dimes to rub together. When they find out you have child support of 1400 dollars a month, working almost two full time jobs to stay alive, and living with roommates...."see, Ya!" They were right to think that way. But it is like someone dropping a glass of ice water down your spine. Abrupt ending.

This is beautiful, Allen. Beautifully written too... and as far as "an honest look" goes, i think you have significantly contributed to the essence this topic initially lacked in the OP's post.

you also demonstrate the value in not passing on judgement too quickly. Pelagic, you questioned our capacity to have an honest look just a few posts ago. and here i'd like to point out how far this thread has come, how much it has matured.
AND, how humor completely took over at a moment when there easily could have been renewed conflict (fantastic!).



I might be walking the plank, here BUT:

perhaps if each of us shared a wonderful love story (no matter the outcome - just focus on the good part), one in which the can feel the union that thrived in that relationship, maybe then, we'd begin to progress?
(i.e., this means that a few would need to try to keep the dog in the trunk for a little while longer... ahem:big grin

this suggestion might be gruffed at, cuffed off the shoulder as the voice of a flower child (), but maybe it does deserve attention... think about it, we admire Ann and Jim, no we LOVE them. We love all those beautiful couples out there right down to Lin and Larry Pardey!

---hey, i've got an idea for a book! Let's all contribute a beautiful love story that occurred at sea or takes place on a boat or in relationship to sailing---

Let's publish it! I cannot take charge of that (my big love story didn't happen at sea or on a boat), but i can help significantly when it comes to proofreading (believe it or not) and can translate from French to English if required. Personally, I'd love to read these stories... I really would!



As for Weavis, first off, i wouldn't have a clue as to how to use an air fryer: i've got three cooking pans - basta - and am a lousy cook, but i have been known to make some delicious sushi... last night i experiment, put lin seeds in with the beans - oh no... not a good idea... luckily i had an onion to throw in.

and Weavis... this girl who you used to care deeply for... did she feel deeply for you too?

[Exile]

Originally Posted by gamayun

That statistic infers that the single ladies here should have their pick of men to choose from. If that's the case, why is it that we are all still single? Is it us or is it the choice of single men here

Because CF is not a match.com-type dating website? Or is it??

[wolfgal]

OOOPS, my fingers typed Allen instead of Allan... my apologies. i finally got Gamayun down though. did i get it right?

i hope you guys realize how hard dyslexic proofreaders work... admittedly, i was MUCH happier when i was an artist assistant



PLEASE, someone please post a wonderful, at-sea love story!!!

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Chichi

perhaps if each of us shared a wonderful love story (no matter the outcome - just focus on the good part), one in which the can feel the union that thrived in that relationship, maybe then, we'd begin to progress?
(i.e., this means that a few would need to try to keep the dog in the trunk for a little while longer... ahem:big grin

No can do. Rocky-THE-Dog always insists on riding up front. Besides, one day my ex told me that neither me nor my dog were "leashable." I took it as a compliment, even though she said it in a rather loud voice (ok, ok, she was yelling it, actually).

[wolfgal]

Originally Posted by Exile

Because CF is not a match.com-type dating website? Or is it??

it is curious because i'm not so sure the gals on this thread are looking for a man here. Zee... Gamayun... Redhead... WifeyB... Ann... among others... hmmm ... did i miss something?

sure, it may have happened a few times here and there, here and elsewhere on CF, but would that not be wonderful?

and i do hope you guys have figured that i'm more like the gals mentioned here: i'm into reading you guys, talking with you guys (always did have guy friends). my ideal evening would be to hang out in the cockpit with a bunch of you and your couples and talk and sing and just enjoy the moment. although it feels great being highly desirable, i like it when no one is hitting on me, when people just enjoy having me in their company and likewise.

[wolfgal]

Originally Posted by Exile

No can do. Rocky-THE-Dog always insists on riding up front. Besides, one day my ex told me that neither me nor my dog were "leashable." I took it as a compliment, even though she said it in a rather loud voice (ok, ok, she was yelling it, actually).

yes, exile, when we all get together and hang out in the cockpit, you can bring Rocky-THE-Dog. No problem there. And, my feeling is that as long as you leave the voice of your screaming ex in the past, we will have a blast.