Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by john61ct

We all have our wants and desires, maybe they can all be met by this thread, given enough tolerance and diversity.

Does the "tolerance" you promote also extend to [privileged??] white males, along with the "diversity" of differing political & other opinion?

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Olddan1943

Folks, you all are losing sight of the thread.
All I am looking for is a woman who wants to be part of a 2 person crew, knowledgable, appears beautiful to me, weighs no more than I do and upon a cold winter's night, warm in bed. Of course, we have to tolerate each other too.
IF a permanent relationship develops, fantastic. If not, and she wishes, I will be happy to return her to our starting point. SHRUG.

Seems perfectly reasonable to me and most importantly being "upfront" in your needs

The great thing about getting older is that you no longer feel the need to make excuses about yourself.
Your personality is pretty much ingrained..
... and only "near death with a heavy does of religion", can spoil it for you[emoji6]

[Olddan1943]

Originally Posted by Exile

Does the "tolerance" you promote also extend to [privileged??] white males, along with the "diversity" of differing political & other opinion?

I give up, does it also extend to (privileged) white females along with the "diversity" of differing political & other opinions?

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Olddan1943

I give up, does it also extend to (privileged) white females along with the "diversity" of differing political & other opinions?

These days it sounds like it's only as tolerant & diverse as whoever may be promoting it defines it. Maybe these are now relative concepts, i.e. subjectively in the eye of the beholder . . . or the beholder's agenda that is. Stereotyping people & preaching issues as if they were gospel is a lot safer than inviting rational debate. But then I grew up in a household where the rule was never to discuss matters such as politics or religion around the dinner table, and so that's exactly what everyone discussed! Sometimes the food would start flying, but never the knives & forks. It was a good way of learning how to become more tolerant of others' perspectives, even though these days our dinner table would likely be considered an "unsafe" space.

[BandB]

We never discussed them around the dinner table. Apparently, didn't discuss them much growing up at all. I still don't around my cousins and aunts and wish they never had. It's forced us apart until we've reached the point that I only have contact with one cousin and that's about 4 phone calls a year. I'm sure they know my views and beliefs although I've never really shared them, just as they went off on a topic, I've simply said, "we don't share those beliefs." However, they can't go two hours without launching into a tyrade on something political, social or religious or about someone based on those topics. It was their house so I tried not to disrespect them by telling them what I though. My wife would say we had to go right as she could feel me reaching my limit. By those views they are clearly saying how they feel about us and it's not nice, even though they'd never admit it. But they're talking about people whose views we share.

I long for the days I thought of them as good family people and loving relatives. However, those days are long gone and the persons they've revealed to me are so repulsive and so against my values that I can't associate with them and listen to them espouse their views.

We made our last stop by my aunt's house for a Christmas meal two years ago. My wife had been keeping me to that tradition as she has no family. As we drove away that year, she whispered, "You don't have to do this anymore." I got a call from my aunt about 9 months ago and in it she jumped in on religion and asked me something and I very politely said, "Could we talk about something other than religion." She only spoke about one more sentence and then we said goodbye. Neither she nor her daughter (devoutly religious preacher's wife) have called since.

This is one reason I've never been on facebook. It's fine to share simple an pleasurable things. But people insist on politics and religion and they get very ugly and I didn't want that side of those I worked with. I always had vague ideas on some but not right in your face, mean or vicious. Sometimes ignorance is bliss and when it comes to that side of some people I feel it is.

We'd never mind a polite discussion of someones views and ours and the differences but very few people can ever keep those discussions polite.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by BandB

We'd never mind a polite discussion of someones views and ours and the differences but very few people can ever keep those discussions polite.

Its a shame when family dysfunction can be traced to something so insignificant as politics or religion....(Especially this time of year)
I never take either of them seriously as I realised a long time ago that the job of a Politician is to demonize their political opponent's view, in order to get elected. Priests do something similar, but more subtle.

I pretty much believe that we ALL want the same security and happiness for our families and it is simply the politicians who polarize the followers, for control purposes.

I don't mind discussing the politics or religion of anything. But only with intelligent people who understand that both are simply "social constructs" and not proof of anything.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

I don't mind discussing the politics or religion of anything. But only with intelligent people who understand that both are simply "social constructs" and not proof of anything.

Unfortunately in their case, that's not the case. They use their religion as a vehicle for hatred and condemnation of others. They use it to support their bigotry and racism. So, it's then something very contrary to our value system, to our view of humanity and our role as part of it. I can't, or won't, sit as they espouse those things. So, as it was their home, I'd limit my response to "We don't share those views" and leave. Now, I simply don't ever go.

I won't discuss my religious views in such an environment and limit my responses in their attempts to discuss them. Theirs are very clear. 99.5% or more of everyone on the planet is going to hell in their view and only a very narrow select group that believes precisely as they do on everything and attends a church just like theirs is not.

Too many wars already and throughout history based on religion. I have no desire to visit them and have one of my own.

[Caribbeachbum]

Originally Posted by micah719

Smoking a Mega-Churchillian Cuban ("Che!") publically and bouncing a long pig vegan papoose off the dashboard is the perfect accompaniment to running my hemp-clad chauferette driven Tesla over a crowd of cismale trumpish caucasian bellhops on the way to a gulag choir rendition of the Internationale.

But seeing as how this is a capitalistic ad-reliant forum for affluent ex-apparatchiki in electronically enhanced GRP floating loungerooms with abundant potable-water-flushed conveniences, only the insane would commit the fatal thoughtcrime of asking you what in hell your political trolling has to do with sailing, boats, or unattached MEN hunting a precious poor defenceless in this merciless world female to call one's very sole own and protect and support and cherish and adore and defend to one's last corpuscule and romance and wildly fornicate with and abjectly fawn before and astonishingly bewonder in all her God-given magnificence? I flounce my flatulent beard in your general direction....and suitably glad you should be for such a sarcastic condescension, you repulsive reactionary effluence of a landlocked kulak, you. And that's all I've (hopefully) got to say about that....

I think I might like to subscribe to your newsletter. Also, I just ... wait, can we go back to the part about the flatulent beard? I think I need more details to process that.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

I never take either of them seriously as I realised a long time ago that the job of a Politician is to demonize their political opponent's view, in order to get elected. Priests do something similar, but more subtle.

I pretty much believe that we ALL want the same security and happiness for our families and it is simply the politicians who polarize the followers, for control purposes.

I don't mind discussing the politics or religion of anything. But only with intelligent people who understand that both are simply "social constructs" and not proof of anything.

Exactly. The ability not to personalize one's opinions is the key to understanding other peoples' views and where they are coming from. This can either serve to reinforce your own opinions or potentially influence you in another direction, but either way it often provides education & insight, and can thus further tolerance & understanding.

But then there are people with views that are so fixed they are unable to give any validity or respect to those that differ, and have in turn lost any desire or ability for respectful debate. The only thing worse are people so transfixed with their own views that they can't even fathom others with equally good intentions who have different perspectives. Hubby B&B's family travails are sad examples.

Originally Posted by BandB

Unfortunately in their case, that's not the case. They use their religion as a vehicle for hatred and condemnation of others. They use it to support their bigotry and racism. So, it's then something very contrary to our value system, to our view of humanity and our role as part of it. I can't, or won't, sit as they espouse those things. So, as it was their home, I'd limit my response to "We don't share those views" and leave. Now, I simply don't ever go.

I won't discuss my religious views in such an environment and limit my responses in their attempts to discuss them. Theirs are very clear. 99.5% or more of everyone on the planet is going to hell in their view and only a very narrow select group that believes precisely as they do on everything and attends a church just like theirs is not.

Too many wars already and throughout history based on religion. I have no desire to visit them and have one of my own.

Can't blame you. At some point the ignorance, arrogance & disrespect becomes abusive, and just because they are your relatives doesn't mean you should have to endure it.

I blame it less on religion itself but on the nature of humankind, whether it's religion, politics, or what type of keel & rudder one "should" have on their boat for that matter! The problem with religion is that as soon as someone proclaims an issue a matter of "faith" then rational debate necessarily ends. Of course, religion is by definition quite literally a matter of faith, but unfortunately that human inclination towards black & white, simplistic answers all too often extends into politics and all sorts of other areas. As someone else already pointed out, most humans form opinions based on emotion, and that in turn is influenced by one's own background, experience, and even personality.

In the current climate of political polarization, I'm more concerned about the long-term impacts from the lack of discourse & meaningful debate than I am about impacts from specific policies. I have far too many friends on one side or the other who sincerely cannot understand how the other side can have the views that they do. And both sides seem so unwilling to engage that, rather than testing the assumptions underlying their opinions, they instead resort to personal insult & stereotyping. As the old religious cliche suggests, there's not much to be learned from preaching to one's own choir except on an emotional/personal level.

[Olddan1943]

I guess I am being too easy ..... If I get any older, I just might want a woman who is beautiful to me and wont smother me in my sleep. Of course it would be nice if she knew which end of the boat is supposed to be "pointie".

[BandB]

Originally Posted by Exile

Can't blame you. At some point the ignorance, arrogance & disrespect becomes abusive, and just because they are your relatives doesn't mean you should have to endure it.

I blame it less on religion itself but on the nature of humankind, whether it's religion, politics, or what type of keel & rudder one "should" have on their boat for that matter! The problem with religion is that as soon as someone proclaims an issue a matter of "faith" then rational debate necessarily ends. Of course, religion is by definition quite literally a matter of faith, but unfortunately that human inclination towards black & white, simplistic answers all too often extends into politics and all sorts of other areas. As someone else already pointed out, most humans form opinions based on emotion, and that in turn is influenced by one's own background, experience, and even personality.

To some degree we've studied every religion in the world and following their basic tenets, they all teach you to love others, all teach peace. People corrupt religions to meet their own needs and to somehow support their inhumanity toward their fellow man. Most wars over history have revolved around relition, yet none of those religions teach one to have wars.

[JPA Cate]

My mileage is different on that conclusion. I think most wars are a manifestation of greed, with a failure of diplomacy, and then, religion may be brought in as a justification--those other guys are all heathens, so it doesn't matter if we kill them.

Ann

[Exile]

Originally Posted by BandB

To some degree we've studied every religion in the world and following their basic tenets, they all teach you to love others, all teach peace. People corrupt religions to meet their own needs and to somehow support their inhumanity toward their fellow man. Most wars over history have revolved around relition, yet none of those religions teach one to have wars.

Mostly true. It's more about human interpretation of religion than religion itself, which I believe is a critical distinction. For example, I have several friends who consider themselves pretty devout adherents to their religion's tenets, but will have as little as possible to do with their church hierarchy which they view as untrustworthy if not corrupt. So they choose where they worship carefully, and try & make sure that all of their donations stay local.

I have no doubt that examples like your relatives are out there more than we may think, but at the same time represent only a small fraction of religious people overall. I used to think that religion and the suffering it's caused through wars, etc. was on balance a negative influence for humankind, but then I thought about the 10's & 100's of millions who have suffered & died in the 20th century alone under the banner of secular causes & govts. So for me it's more about the flawed nature of mankind than whatever religious, political, economic, or national banner people are killing each other over.

[Pelagic]

I think the cause of human suffering begins at a much deeper level than social constructs i.e. religion, politics, family , country, race etc....

It begins with "Belief"

Beliefs based on a priori reasoning as opposed to emperical proofs.

Once that leap of "Faith" is made, it allows a weaker (or let's just be honest..) simply lazy minds.....
.... to be manipulated by the Pied Pipers of the world.

That is why I love the honesty of going to Sea.
We observe and adjust to real conditions, we prepare and are responsible for our own salvation, with the knowledge, that if found lacking, it is not gods or luck at fault, but ourselves.

[john61ct]

My view is that there is truth at the kernel of all the great religions.

But human greed, power, social control take over the **organized** aspects, create hierarchical bureaucracy and authority structures take over.

Same as government functions too, power and selfishness override the original good intentions.