Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by gamayun

Appreciate that, Cyan. Well then, I will bite. Everyone has their own criteria of what will make a good partner for them. For me, I never wanted someone to "take care of me" in that chivalrous way most men think their women want (and what I think you're implying).

It's not just what "most men think their women want," but also a need on the part of many guys to take care of their partners/wives/girlfriends. Likewise, many women have a need to be needed by their men. So if one partner is truly more indpt. of the other, the relationship may not work not necessarily because the less indpt. partner feels intimidated, but because he/she is not getting his/her basic needs met.

But I'm different from most females, and I understand that, too. I should not generalize. I certainly won't demean you or other Western Men with Asian Women who have found happiness based on true mutual respect, integrity, and openness. I guess where some of us might roll our eyes is that women from economically depressed areas may look upon Western men as their ticket to a better life, and many have been raised in a culture that has taught them to be subservient to men.

As you say, you are different and sound truly independent. But I can assure you that it's not just women with poorer backgrounds that look to men as their ticket to a better life. In fact, many with privileged backgrounds are looking for that as well, i.e. their partners are expected to provide in adult life what they got used to growing up. Maybe there's some hard wiring in play, or more likely a social thing, but it seems like an important factor for more women than men, regardless of ethnicity or economic background.

Again, if it works, it works, but I wonder how much is truly free will on the part of the woman although ulterior motives are not culture-specific, as previous posts have certainly pointed out. I hope this is conveyed in the way I meant it -- it is certainly not meant to be critical. I just remain skeptical when someone says "Asian women are X" or "Western Women are Y."

Well, it's certainly a stereotype, and in this case there seems to be some evidence in support. But your skepticism about over-generalizing is certainly well placed. But then I'm not sure what you mean by "free will." It seems to me that the man being the provider and woman being subservient (outwardly at least) doesn't really get you there. Are you saying the woman had no choice but to submit to a wealthier male partner, or that once she made that choice there's no way out?

Maybe this is where I was headed in that convoluted point -- take any young, uneducated woman (of any culture) outside of her poor environment and treat her well, and you're likely to have a faithful companion. I just find it hard to believe that is solely an Asian thing.

I agree it's not solely an Asian thing, and don't know if the stereotype is supportable. Who knows, maybe Asian women only seem subservient on the outside but privately run the show. I'm sure there is a lot of variance like any ethnic group and it's hard to generalize as you say. But I can confidently disagree with your comment that "take any young, uneducated woman (of any culture) outside of her poor environment and treat her well, and you're likely to have a faithful companion." Just like women who may be educated, wealthier, or somewhere in btwn., poorer, uneducated women can just as easily appreciate the good treatment & find ways to reciprocate it, or they can resent it, feel entitled about it, act like it's never enough, or otherwise make a guy feel miserable over it. And I, for one, have no idea the reasons behind such behaviors varying so much.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Gamayun, that last paragraph would be true for dogs as well as humans! Not saying you're wrong, but just sayin'. Kindness can be very effective.

Definitely best for me not to generalize on this one, but in my personal experience the big difference was that the dog only bit me once.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Chichi

Hey Exile,

Yes, i know her videos. Her boat is Karl, right? We don't get her name in the vids, but she has merit!

You have a good point, and I do agree with you... though i am not sure we are really talking about the same thing. you speak of relationships with crew on your boat. i'm talking about being in a long-term relationship on a boat.

but that's ok... I know how captain/crew relationships can work because every captain I've ever crewed for has asked me back. And i've experienced how intimacy tends to permeate the bonds that come through the cooperation and the building of trust (required in sailing). For example, some years ago, one guy actually proposed that i stay and that he leave his wife... (i told him no)

other than one bad experience where the guy got excited beyond his wits and didn't respect me, all of my crewing experiences (and i've helped fixed stuff more than I've sailed because i'm mechanical and love tools) have been great. i know that there are very beautiful souls out there on boats, people i can get along with very, very well, etc.

so, it is not that i do not have faith in that sense... it is more this: it has to do with the fact that each boat owner has his/her definition of sailing and his/her life plan. this very fact lends him/her more weight in the decision-making process, more respect.

as far as definitions go: some boat owners are liveaboards who never leave the dock or the bay; others compete, others cruise, others sail around the world, others want to do coastal sailing, others are attracted to solitude, others to community (at the yacht club or along the way....), others prefer to fix stuff...
My point being: owning the boat allows one to decide how the boat will be used.

and when one owns his/her boat, he/she usually has a rough plan. perhaps the plan is to cross the atlantic, do the panama canal, head down the coast of South America for while before returning to the med, and all this, in, say four years. others plan to island hop and help communities build or rebuild. others plan to do the rivers or the grand loop first, then something else, then something else... from this time to that time. these plans usually fall into wished-for time frames (because we all know about how plans go on a boat).
yet, once again, the boat owner usually has an idea of all this early on in buying the boat: the proof being that the boat and its setup usually reflects his/her ambitions (when i see a boat with a wind vane, i'm not thinking coastal spurts or med sailing).

and it doesn't stop here... there is the after-plan, say to move ashore when the bones get too old, to leave the boat to the kids or grand-kids, whatever...

imagine the conversations a woman has with herself as she speaks with her boat-owner-man and hears about his plans (where, when, how, and for how long). imagine she is a woman who has dreams of a certain type of sailing and who plans to live aboard until whenever... she has to ask herself: does my plan align with his? can we make adjustments so it can work? does the time he wants to spend out there match mine? is this possible at all?

and say she adapts to him and him to her and adjustments are made, and they are happy. there is always the possibility that something unfortunate happens and she winds up without her man, and thus, without the boat, without her home. he could fall off, have a heart-attack, get ill, get old...

i know that things can be done to leave a boat to one's partner, but there are other unfortunate things, a break-up, for instance. he could get whisked away by another woman who is more intelligent, more enchanting, or who simply satisfies his desire/need for variety.

or it could be that she is whisked away by another who is more intelligent, more enchanting, or who simply satisfies her desire/need for variety (or good cooking).

if she does not own the boat, she cannot stay on the boat. if she cannot stay on the boat, she cannot remain in her home.

so it always boils down to: it is the boat owner who is truly at home in his/her boat. the boat owner can include others in his/her plans, adapt the plans, and may or may not choose to outfit the boat to meet those plans (and im' not talking about comfort; i'm talking about a wind vane). the boat owner may include another in the decision-making process, yes, but regardless the outcome, the other respects the boat owners' choice.

do you understand what i am trying to convey?


can i tell a story? three days ago i answered an advert for a boat for sale. i happen to know a whole lot about these particular boats and can easily talk hours about them. my interest in buying this boat was very serious.

well, the boat owner, after having discovered me a bit: a female who wants this boat, knows a while lot about them, who wants to sail... (and he surely saw my picture on what'sappp)... well, after all this (and it is clear from the start that i fly out there to see the boat), the guy says that he definitely wants me to fly out to see the boat and will take me for a sail yet isn't sure he wants to sell his boat after all.



Happy New Year to everyone reading this (instead of partying). I've got 15 minutes to go but really just want to brush my teeth and go to bed. Spending New Year's alone isn't sad: i'm happy to spend this time reflecting on life and talk with folks on boats!

May 2018 be kind and gentle and healthy and meaningful!

Chichi

Don't get me wrong Chichi, as a boat owner myself I would highly encourage your getting your own boat. My only point was that I don't think it will induce a guy to "respect you" any more than if you were sailing on his boat, or vice-versa. Instead, your reasoning explains why having your own boat may give you more freedom & control over what you would like to accomplish on a boat, but I would suggest that is more dependent on the personality, character & flexibility of the man you choose vs. which one of you happens to own the boat. For all you know, there may be a male boat owner who has made plans based on sailing solo or with friends, and who may welcome changing his plans in the event he winds up in a romance with a woman who wants to go sailing with him. Or conversely, you may hook up with a guy who is eager to sail on your boat but who is intransigent about what to do with it or where to go.

No guarantees, but by all means pursue your own boat! It sounds like you already have the most important skill set, namely how to fix stuff!

[cyan]

Originally Posted by gamayun

Appreciate that, Cyan. Well then, I will bite. Everyone has their own criteria of what will make a good partner for them. For me, I never wanted someone to "take care of me" in that chivalrous way most men think their women want (and what I think you're implying). But I'm different from most females, and I understand that, too. I should not generalize. I certainly won't demean you or other Western Men with Asian Women who have found happiness based on true mutual respect, integrity, and openness. I guess where some of us might roll our eyes is that women from economically depressed areas may look upon Western men as their ticket to a better life, and many have been raised in a culture that has taught them to be subservient to men. Again, if it works, it works, but I wonder how much is truly free will on the part of the woman although ulterior motives are not culture-specific, as previous posts have certainly pointed out. I hope this is conveyed in the way I meant it -- it is certainly not meant to be critical. I just remain skeptical when someone says "Asian women are X" or "Western Women are Y."

Maybe this is where I was headed in that convoluted point -- take any young, uneducated woman (of any culture) outside of her poor environment and treat her well, and you're likely to have a faithful companion. I just find it hard to believe that is solely an Asian thing.

I apologize for the inevitable PMs inquiring about your status, as you have described quite a catch. (no, seriously)

I agree that everyone has their own criteria for a partner, and there are many pitfalls to generalizing. I DO understand the eye-rolling, as the obvious meal ticket can become more of a desperate life choice than anything else. If this is actually the driving force in the relationship, then bad endings are likely, sure. Education might not fit well into this argument, as it has become very common to pursue higher learning throughout the region in question. Paying for the college? Okay, we are back to the meal ticket again. Fair enough.

The "subservient" vs "independent" labels get a bit nuanced, however. In many SE Asian cultures, the oldest daughter is expected to go get education and a job and then support the rest of the family. You and I would probably frown upon such a burden, but in many cases the young lady ends up with a degree and a profession and a bit of independence as a result. In these cases the subservience is more of a family thing and not really a gender thing, and the happy by-product is often an empowered woman.

In the West, the liberation of women is possibly not quite finished, but I'll bet we can agree that things are miles better than in recent past. In some cases this wonderful progress has caused a bit of harm along the way IMO. In the frenzy to be equal in all ways, there can be comical overcompensation. For instance, I associate with a group of (Western) professional, married women with masters degrees (lawyers) that will literally gang up and ridicule any of their group who was caught performing a "1950's housewife task" such as laundry. (seriously). While such misguided power brokers may be extreme, they are quite common in my profession. This overcompensation can also be much more subtle, causing similar comedy and causing Western men to simply accept a world in which their educated professional partner needs extra consideration to avoid the appearance of a traditional division of labor. This modern problem can wear on a guy in ways he doesn't even understand until he visits different cultures.

You would be hard-pressed to find this type of comedy in SE Asia. Its much easier to find the woman who will carefully dab the sweat from her man's forehead and take care that he doesn't leave behind any valuables on a night out... all this on a first date. When little things like this get reciprocated, the bonding starts. This isn't so much chivalry as it is mutual caring and respect.

Your mileage may vary, gamayun, as you may not even suffer from this curiously modern Western overcompensation, at all. To that I would say, well done.

[gamayun]

Alright Exile and Cyan, I am impressed. You've both laid out the arguments and counter points quite well and have now given me much food for thought. I must admit that my travels have taken me close to though not quite on the Asian continent yet, but I have heard many beautiful stories of the different countries. There's much to be said for culture and tradition. I am at a lost; however, about this "over compensation" that Cyan speaks of by high-level professional women. I have not seen this, but I have seen similar power struggles between women that does not seem to happen between men. Belittling others to maintain one's position seems to me the epitome of pathetic elite peer pressure. It's not pretty in any form.

As to PMs regarding my status, I rarely receive any. When I do, they curiously seem to come from coupled/married men (which is perhaps just the demographic of this forum), but they're always just complimentary so I don't think they're hitting on me! I'll certainly give them the benefit of the doubt for any perverse minds.

Ann, good point about women who are brought up to bring pleasure upon others. I think this equates to "be more nurturing to others," which is the motherly mode, n'est pas? However, I think many women who lean toward this trait, might also be found to ignore their own wants/desires/needs. Again, not saying this is universal, but it does seem to occur more frequently with the more nurturing types.

As to the whole dog versus human companionship thing, I have to admit that I can read a dog's intentions better than a human. Dogs are truly genuine. If you don't anthropomorphize them, their behavior is exactly as you would expect a canine to be given their pack mentality. I think where most people need to split ways on this (actually where I hope everyone splits ways on this), is in the need for sexual intimacy. Few people can go through life without fulfilling their sexual needs though as people age or stay in a relationship long term, it's clear that this is not as significant. Maybe then, one's partner is equal to a dog.

HEY!!!! JUST KIDDING YA'LL!!!!

Happy New Year everyone It's fun connecting here with you all

[JPA Cate]

Just playing now.

Gamayun wrote, "Maybe then, one's partner is equal to a dog."

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, of course, but even though my dog was pretty smart, he was not the conversationalist Jim is, nor the humorist. Heck, the dog was dependent on me, and that is very easy to take for love.

A.

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Just playing now.

Gamayun wrote, "Maybe then, one's partner is equal to a dog."

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, of course, but even though my dog was pretty smart, he was not the conversationalist Jim is, nor the humorist. Heck, the dog was dependent on me, and that is very easy to take for love.

A.

You got me there, Ann. Your Jim sounds like quite the catch and I enjoy his contributions to this forum almost as much as when your steady voice of reason chimes in. You both chose very well indeed

[daletournier]

OK, sexist joke take it for the ways it's meant "a joke"

What's the difference between your dog and your wife?

If you lock them both in the boot of the car for a couple of days when you open the boot, as normal the dogs really happy to see you[emoji2]

[gamayun]

Ouch, Dale. Don't quit yer day job. Comedian is not in your future

[weavis]

Having spent a few years on and off in India doing my medical training, military and some charity work, and traveling around Singapore, Borneo, The Philippines and Hong Kong, I got to see each culture. Despite poverty, the filipinas always smile and look for the bright side in everything. The women take care of their families and despite a gentle outside, are as hard as steel and ruthless in their quest to provide. That is why you will see many who work outside the country as Domestics and nurses and general help in order to send money back. They do what it takes. If a man will not pull their weight (and many Filipino males just go from bed to bed) they move on and make their life work for the responsibilities they have. No excuses.

I have many friends married to Asian women. Most have a successful life, (with notable exceptions).... The upbringing of the women lean towards a nurturing nature, and most men like to be met with a smile and a hug and a touch whenever they walk passed you.

I have enjoyed evenings out with lovely Filipinas, (Manilla and Cebu) not from the bars or for sex, but real to goodness dates. You will find that most of the women have made their way through school AND college and have one or more degrees in their chosen field. In order to do they also have worked long hours to pay for it.

The Bar scene is alive and well and for a few dollars, services can be arranged. There is a huge unrelenting traffic of men from all nations going there to take advantage. The women do it to live. They only have one thing to trade.

One of my friends, is 57. He has been with the same woman for 7 years. They got married last year and spend 6 months in the UK and 6 months in Cebu. She does not have a degree, has one daughter from a Filipino man and never asks for anything. Not money for her family, not clothes for herself, just is what she is. However she speaks 5 languages, is personable to the degree that companies hire her to translate in Cebu and she has saved many a deal with her charm and grace. She can remonstrate with a person in such a way that they are chastised deeply and yet never feel alienated and the door is open to make amends for their wrongdoing. I believe that she truly loves my friend and has made her life with him and the daughter the most important thing in her world. She wants for nothing and does not take anything for granted... A sweet lady.

There are women like this from every culture yet are harder to find apart from Asia..

I like the Asian culture. Women from China now will not even look at you unless you own your own apartment or house.... Really. It is a sore subject for poorer Chinese men. They are cut out of the loop.

So independence and self reliance can be coupled with a sweet nature. There is no need to 'decide' to be single in that quest, no need to be feisty in attitude... Asian women have it down to a T. They work for what they need to and remain independent in the execution of it until they find someone who will respect them and then they merge together. Of course there are the scammers as well and any ex pat in the Islands will tell you.

It depends what a man is looking for. They can choose from anything in Asia.

Many 'married to Asian women' say that they like the softness and gentleness of the culture. They didnt want the American or European mentality of their own culture. Some took advantage of having money and chose what they wanted in looks..........

Im all for liking the person wherever they come from.... I do like the Asian culture but Im here and they are there... recently Ive been seeing a Japanese lady who is here for learning Spanish and the Flamenco.. Flamenco is HUGE in Tokyo.... She is charming company and easy on the eye....

So, I understand completely the allure and attraction Asian women... Men just need to sort through the realities of life with another person regardless of culture...

Asia is indeed tempting.

Even Mark Zuckerberg married a Chinese woman.

[wolfgal]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Loving, compassionate, good sense of humor, makes you feel good just to be around them, financially responsible, intelligent, persevering, good in a crisis, similar world view ...... lots of requirements....my list ran to 23 items.....

But I get what you're getting at, even a good list isn't a guarantee....

Ann

Ann,

Oh my, i am used to having many running LISTS. for those "to-do lists" those things that need to get done, items are separated by theme, ... yet recently i realized the need for a big room with white boards - so to see it all it once.

i've a "bucket list," even crossed off most all things..., so to leave the word SAILBOAT (and all that entails), in bold letters, at the top.

i have "need-it lists" as to what i think is preferable on my boat (ceramic knives and such)

and of course, i've got "learn-it lists" listing ways to potentially enhance my income and my path to self-sufficiency and independence.


But now, NOW, i'm learning that people make a "desirable for future-mate list"? somehow this smells of disaster (as someone mentioned above)

for me... finding a mate is more like finding the right sailboat:

i can spend days and nights without sleep on yatchworld! i go through the layout and scour over all aspects of them as well as i can. in a similar way, i can read the same author exclusively and get bummed when i've read all his books. i can watch talks and videos by men, out there on the web, doing their thing... the curious thing is that, whereas i'm jumping-out-of-my-skin-excited while i try to identify the plastic classics (mostly) in a marina, i do NOT notice men in the street. i do notice beautiful women, oh yes, but most all of us do. we are lovely creatures, that's all there is to it.

so like boats, my tendency is to admire the real ones out there. and this because, for me, being with a person involves experiencing and exchanging in a tango of characteristics, some steps we like to dance, some steps we don't... but it is the dancing together, the dance itself, the fluidity to takes on, overall and the shared feeling of being comfortable, fitting with the other, that counts. i think.

For instance, take (off the top of my head here) Paul Stamets. He sails, is passionate, is doing all this stuff with such energy and commitment and intuition. He's off the wall yet on spot! He might be a royal pita sometimes and will definitely show up in a goofy hat , but he'd surely keep things from getting dull. ok, he's not a real prospect: he's older; he's got Dusty, ...and she is probably more wonderful than him!
that said, i'd definitely vote for Paul Stamets if he ran for president. Dusty would be quite the First Lady as well...

and then there is Rupert Sheldrake. Oh, he is so articulate, elegant, persistent, determined! of course, he is just an idea too. he getting so old now (bummer thing with courageous and handsome and intelligent men!) and is married, and I seriously doubt he sails...

the point is, i would not want to list everything just to cross most everything off in the end like i have with my bucket list (invite everyone to call it my "reality list" and cross your fingers).

doesn't it work this way with everyone here too? without a list? isn't the list really a projection of living person with a host of qualities that you'd like to ask to tango? are there not different people who embody different lists?

and doesn't it just happen when it is supposed to happen?

isn't it about timing and availability and butterflies?

AND doesn't poseidon intervene? i wrote a poem to poseidon... and feel rather optimistic about him intervening on my behalf.

please know, i'm having a bit of fun here (like when Dale attempts to tell a joke, ahem)

and should most of us (who are very cautious...) all buddy sail first anyway, to be sure?

chichi

[wolfgal]

Originally Posted by Exile

Don't get me wrong Chichi, as a boat owner myself I would highly encourage your getting your own boat. My only point was that I don't think it will induce a guy to "respect you" any more than if you were sailing on his boat, or vice-versa.
No guarantees, but by all means pursue your own boat! It sounds like you already have the most important skill set, namely how to fix stuff!

yes, Exile... to own a boat brings a certain amount of control into one's life. the path one takes is determined in part by the boat itself. to this effect, i'd like to point out too that there is a difference between already knowing how to fix stuff and taking every opportunity to learn... being mechanical and enjoying tools helps a lot, but the learning and the practice must be had.

as for women, like men, women have different stories. i could be one who could say, Never again!, yet don't. i remain open to the eventual possibility...that said, i will be very, very, very cautious about the kind of guy i 'hook up' with. Dale's terrible joke comes to mind. so again, buddy sail...

[boatman61]

Lets face it.. men and women (Western) go into relationships with too many expectations.. everyone wants the perfect Hollywood wedding and into the sunset happy ever after scenario.. but real life is different.
When a relationship dies most seem to look on it as some kind of personal failure and go into 'Poor Me'.. or 'Texas Chainsaw Massacre' mode..
But realistically its just been a really good friendship with sex and shared expense's if one breaks it down to basic's..
All my ex's and I.. (except my ex wife, that's another story) are still good friends.. we just don't hump or live together any more..
I have lived with various partners for as little as 9mths, 2yrs, 7yrs and 10yrs.. and periods in between but never married again.. and each time we came to a joint adult conclusion/acceptance that.. in spite of being extremely fond of each other things were not all we needed or wanted in spite of once seeming just right.. sailing, city life, country's amongst other things.. being wrong for one or the other.
Sadly all to often so called adults seem more like 5yr olds in the school yard throwing tantrums and stamping their feet to the theme of 'My Way'.. along with a desperate desire to destroy 'the love of their life'..
One just has to take an honest look back at ones own life to see how ones priorities change.. and accept that its selfish/unjust to expect someone else to stifle their changes to embrace yours.
Grow up folks FFS.. and learn to be truly happy with yourself.. and see how life changes..

[wolfgal]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Lets face it.. men and women (Western) go into relationships with too many expectations.. everyone wants the perfect Hollywood wedding and into the sunset happy ever after scenario.. but real life is different.
When a relationship dies most seem to look on it as some kind of personal failure and go into 'Poor Me'.. or 'Texas Chainsaw Massacre' mode..
But realistically its just been a really good friendship with sex and shared expense's if one breaks it down to basic's..
All my ex's and I.. (except my ex wife, that's another story) are still good friends.. we just don't hump or live together any more..
I have lived with various partners for as little as 9mths, 2yrs, 7yrs and 10yrs.. and periods in between but never married again.. and each time we came to a joint adult conclusion/acceptance that.. in spite of being extremely fond of each other things were not all we needed or wanted in spite of once seeming just right.. sailing, city life, country's amongst other things.. being wrong for one or the other.
Sadly all to often so called adults seem more like 5yr olds in the school yard throwing tantrums and stamping their feet to the theme of 'My Way'.. along with a desperate desire to destroy 'the love of their life'..
One just has to take an honest look back at ones own life to see how ones priorities change.. and accept that its selfish/unjust to expect someone else to stifle their changes to embrace yours.
Grow up folks FFS.. and learn to be truly happy with yourself.. and see how life changes..

Hold on good man (and please do not give me away, cause you've surely figured who i really am).


Hold on, whereas i agree with you on SOOOOO many of your FANTASTIC points, i've got to say that, as we write, it is more constructive to try to not lose compassion for our fellow solo sailors (mostly), no matter how much whining there is (well, there are limits). please keep in mind that to whine is to bare one's pain; and pain, we all know, can linger and, at times, throb.

let's assume that, although your advice to be less expectant of the other in the relationship and less determined to keep it on course when the two involved drift apart (because this is it how it goes, most of the time), some folks are less good at protecting themselves from pain and/or healing from pain than others. some go through a lot before they get to the other side of a rupture (i use rupture because sometimes the other dies, and this is a hard way to break-up...).

Just as you said that all of your relationships ended well, except for that one, in which you were married... please imagine that, during that relationship, your wife treated you unfairly to the point where you felt overwhelmingly incapable of trust, making it impossible for you to get into another.

i cannot remember who it is on here who refers a woman who left him this way... it doesn't matter who at all. what matters is that he obviously hasn't dared to trust since and yet finds he is able to come out with it here. not only that: he reads the different perspectives here. it opens him to other scenarios, different kinds of circumstances in which he finds others who have experienced something similar.

my feeling is that, all of us participating here are striving (trying to, anyway) toward who we can become and toward the lives we want to live. for so many of us, it is now also a race with the hourglass, so that's an added pressure for the mix. and even the ones who seem to have it all together, they are here too... (thank goodness), but still, they are here. they too may be redefining themselves, honing in the better parts of themselves sometimes, sometimes doing what they can to help out. the quality of this thread is all over the place, and yet it is great. so often it becomes that moment when the popcorn starts to pop like crazy.

as far as those moments go, we are lucky. for the most part, people are tolerant of one another here; and if things get too out of hand, Ann says some magic words and waves her wand and everyone feels better.

in any case, let's keep in mind that, for many, to heed well-foiunded advice is a struggle in itself.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Chichi

yes, Exile... to own a boat brings a certain amount of control into one's life. the path one takes is determined in part by the boat itself. to this effect, i'd like to point out too that there is a difference between already knowing how to fix stuff and taking every opportunity to learn... being mechanical and enjoying tools helps a lot, but the learning and the practice must be had.

as for women, like men, women have different stories. i could be one who could say, Never again!, yet don't. i remain open to the eventual possibility...that said, i will be very, very, very cautious about the kind of guy i 'hook up' with. Dale's terrible joke comes to mind. so again, buddy sail...

Everytime ive heard that joke told or told it, its been funny as its a joke, and not just men laughed. I sort of bought it up deliberately to see what reaction it would get, this was after a dog partner comparison was made by a lady poster. Interesting early on in the thread when Lepke said something about " better of getting a dog" he got nailed, several times. When a lady mentioned the dog thing tongue in cheek it fairly well slips under the radar ,when a joke about a woman and a dog comes up by a guy ,once again its not ok, although politely rejected.

Something i notice is that guys often communicate differently around women, with caution, they put effort into not offending. Theres often a lack of honesty in the conversation. Ive watched the tackfulness of some males posting here, i do this to some extent as well unfortunately ,not sure all the ladies put the same effort in, they can pretty much say what they please.

The video you posted Chi Chi, pointing out how nice the guy was, which he was as i commented ,BUT to me it was almost a adult child relationship more than a equal girlfriend boyfriend relationship, i base this on the way he communicated with her, right down to the positive reinforcement at the end , thats what you want?

Alot of guys i know just couldnt be bothered putting that much effort in anymore, theyre not asses or angry guys, they dont hate women, theyre just happy to be real and honest, even if it unintentionally offends ladies. They feel happy and more comfortable just socializing with their mates, its just more honest, more and more thats becoming me, i enjoy conversations with other males more than i do with the women.