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Old 05-12-2017, 00:53   #1291
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Re: Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
if you were the human being hired to receiving the patients for plastic reconstruction, the lead sentence you will constantly hear is MY HUSBAND WANTS...yada yada..not I WANT.... it goes..my husband wants me to have breast enhancement. he wants size 38dd. ( to hell with my personal health he wants this. so what if i have subsequent back pains and health issues he wants it). ok. and he wants my face to look like j lo's... or he wants my ..... to look like.....
and that is voluntary? is abuse.
gotta love warped male attitudes. women do anything for their man.
men say to hell with you and date younger women. more abuse and cheating. very narcissistic male attitude.
and you think the woman wants this???? hahahahahaha total bubble boy attitude
the numbers of females who wish to alter looks for selves is small. much smaller than you think. most want to alter looks for a man or a job run by men.
Examples like breast enhancement are ridiculous. I know of of at least four women, one being my ex wife that have had implants, not one of them did it because their husband made them, they did it because they wanted to, they were not happy with post kid breasts.

Amazing how examples can be twisted to suit someones beliefs, my husband made me get bigger breasts!
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Old 05-12-2017, 01:08   #1292
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Re: Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

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What I was actually discussing is that some men are shying away from getting involved in circumstances that have the potential to negatively impact them financially. My point is that males today might be reluctant to enter into a legal commitment especially given that the failure rate is so high.

After the fact all parties are of course affected financially by a breakup but that was not my topic. I am talking about the thought process that might preclude the relationship from happening in the first place.

Anecdotally, women don't seem to be as cautious/concerned as men about future financial loss resulting from a failed relationship?

Comments?
Well, that is true, there are women hunting for a rich guy.

Their agenda is to look as good as possible to catch a wealthy guy or at least one with a good paid job, get married and / or pregnant, stay at home and enjoy live. This is the career they are looking for, so they have nothing to loose, but a lot to gain. And of course men know this and are cautious to not get ambushed and trapped - that is understandable too.

There are 3 solutions for this dilemma:

1.) as a man you look not only for a beauty, but also for a smart woman, that has a good job and / or is also some how wealthy as you are, so there is a balance in the relationship. On a break-up nobody gets hurt to badly and you are real partners in all circumstances. Also everyone is able to provide for himself at any time. This is the partnership with equal roles, you share all duties. The marriage is then just a sheet of paper and not necessary, bothe partner have a strong personality, a potential split is not a drama.

2.) you make a legal marriage contract that includes an exit plan and let her sign it before the marriage (so unromantic), so you don't get ripped-off. I would call it a ltd. partnership where the one partner has the power and the other is somehow the toy. A clear role for both from the beginning.

3.) you want a woman, that stays at home and raises the children - and you fully commit to support her to the end of your lives. This is the partnership where both commit to a clear gender role differentiation and symbiosis. You both accept and value the gender differences and you complement each other in the partnership. This is the hardest case in a later divorce, that hurts financially and emotionally most. This is also the reason man shy away if they are not 100% sure to have found the right person yet.

All three can work long term, and of course the roles of men and women can be swapped, so the man stays home and the women goes to work or is the wealthier partner.
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Old 05-12-2017, 10:21   #1293
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Re: Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

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Originally Posted by sailpower View Post
What I was actually discussing is that some men are shying away from getting involved in circumstances that have the potential to negatively impact them financially. My point is that males today might be reluctant to enter into a legal commitment especially given that the failure rate is so high.

After the fact all parties are of course affected financially by a breakup but that was not my topic. I am talking about the thought process that might preclude the relationship from happening in the first place.
I think your comment may have some validity, but can't grok at all your sole focus on the legal and financial side.

None of these issues to me have anything to do with **the relationship**. Yes marriage is largely irrelevant, but there are much bigger social forces behind that, not just caution about finances.

If money is so important to you that you'd let it rule your romantic decisions wrt your life partner, I think that *attitude* in itself will severely limit your chances of getting a good one.

Just like a woman who chooses men who would want her to get plastic surgery, to me an incomprehensible recipe for disaster.
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Old 05-12-2017, 10:49   #1294
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Re: Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

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I think your comment may have some validity, but can't grok at all your sole focus on the legal and financial side.

None of these issues to me have anything to do with **the relationship**. Yes marriage is largely irrelevant, but there are much bigger social forces behind that, not just caution about finances.

If money is so important to you that you'd let it rule your romantic decisions wrt your life partner, I think that *attitude* in itself will severely limit your chances of getting a good one.

Just like a woman who chooses men who would want her to get plastic surgery, to me an incomprehensible recipe for disaster.
You mistake what you attribute as my sole focus. I am following up on comments directed at me particularly by GG from mostly my original post. You should read that as the conversation has taken off in a different direction.

Wait, aren't you the guy who said that most men mistreat their partners? Never mind then.
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Old 05-12-2017, 11:58   #1295
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Re: Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

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Wait, aren't you the guy who said that most men mistreat their partners? Never mind then.
No, just that even the most woke humans have residual unconscious biases from our social conditioning, and it requires constant mindfulness to prevent these from manifesting in our words and behaviours.

Not just wrt gender issues, but race, religion, classism etc.

Is what I meant there. . .
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Old 05-12-2017, 11:59   #1296
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Re: Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

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Originally Posted by sailpower View Post
What I was actually discussing is that some men are shying away from getting involved in circumstances that have the potential to negatively impact them financially. My point is that males today might be reluctant to enter into a legal commitment especially given that the failure rate is so high.

After the fact all parties are of course affected financially by a breakup but that was not my topic. I am talking about the thought process that might preclude the relationship from happening in the first place.

Anecdotally, women don't seem to be as cautious/concerned as men about future financial loss resulting from a failed relationship?

Comments?
Wifey B: Oh, I know women who are very cautious and not about to co-mingle funds with men they don't deem responsible. The one who generally has the fear is the one who is financially the strongest. They're the one with the most to lose. Single females with some degree of wealth have the exact same concerns as single males with some degree of wealth.

There are a lot of opportunists out there, male and female. People with hidden agendas. Even more cruel is when it happens to the elderly. Widows get descended upon by vultures often.

Unfortunately there are a lot of people driven strictly by money and ready to take yours or anyone else's. There are a lot of young men and women with pre-nuptial agreements and who maintain separate bank accounts throughout their marriages. This is often when one or the other has wealth parents and a sizable inheritance may be in the future.

Also there are men and women out there who seem unable to maintain good jobs or build careers and the other person must be conscious of that about them and protect their own interests.

But back to your statement, I know many young, financially stable females who are just as cautious as any man would be. When you're in your 20's finding others who are stable and mature can be very challenging.
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Old 05-12-2017, 12:07   #1297
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Re: Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

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When you're in your 20's finding others who are stable and mature can be very challenging.
Ah, the 20's years.

I think we can add "aware" to that age group as well.

Agree.
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Old 05-12-2017, 12:08   #1298
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Re: Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

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Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
No, just that even the most woke humans have residual unconscious biases from our social conditioning, and it requires constant mindfulness to prevent these from manifesting in our words and behaviours.

Not just wrt gender issues, but race, religion, classism etc.

Is what I meant there. . .
No, you said "most men".

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Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
But there are levels of awareness; most men have no idea how they unconsciously disrespect the women in their lives, maybe every day.

Mansplaining, interrupting, manspreading on public transport are some seemingly trivial examples. Unequal wages and underepresentation in politics and top management more serious ones.

Same with racism. And members of the oppressed group often actively complicit, takes huge social efforts, raised levels of awareness all 'round for many decades to make significant progress.

And actively supported by legal measures, with members of the historically privileged group complaining of mistreatment all the while.

When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression
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Old 05-12-2017, 12:15   #1299
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Re: Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

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Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
I think your comment may have some validity, but can't grok at all your sole focus on the legal and financial side.

None of these issues to me have anything to do with **the relationship**. Yes marriage is largely irrelevant, but there are much bigger social forces behind that, not just caution about finances.

If money is so important to you that you'd let it rule your romantic decisions wrt your life partner, I think that *attitude* in itself will severely limit your chances of getting a good one.

Just like a woman who chooses men who would want her to get plastic surgery, to me an incomprehensible recipe for disaster.
Is it about a woman choosing a man who wants her to get plastic surgery, or a man choosing a woman who puts an unhealthy amount of emphasis on how she looks? What about men who, in modern parlance, "objectify" women they are in relationships with but also respect if not cherish them for their intellect, judgment, and good character? In such cases is not the "objectification" just another way of describing a healthy sexual attraction?

Do legal & financial issues have "nothing" to do with a relationship when both parties agree -- whether legally married or not -- that one will be the breadwinner and the other raise the kids or otherwise contribute in kind? What happens to the "irrelevant" legal & financial issues if the partnership eventually dissolves? Does one partner becoming financially impoverished have nothing to do with the **relationship** then? And what happens if there are kids and the wealthier partner doesn't want to support them? Still no role for legal or financial components in those cases?

And what about those who primarily equate sex with emotional intimacy along with the pleasure derived from the physical act? How about those in healthy, legally-sanctioned marriages who believe that their relationship being formalized by the state and/or church contributes to the long-term stability of their family unit? Neither you nor I may find this comfortable or be able to relate, but should we be the ones to judge whether it is "largely irrelevant" for others?

While I agree with a few of your posts and disagree with many others, I generally find them all myopically focused on your own particular sensibilities & point of view, and all too often naively simplistic. And if we've learned anything from the recent spate of sexual abuse/harassment scandals from higher-ups in the media, entertainment & political worlds, outward expressions of "virtue" and politically correct "language" may or may not reflect a person's true nature. Whether it's creepy Ray Moore preaching about religious virtue, piggish Matt Lauer castigating piggish Bill O'Reilly, the glaring contrast btwn. the public persona & private misconduct of the Clinton's, and countless other examples of such hypocrisy, political correctness only leads to stereotyping & labeling, and stereotyping & labeling only leads to the suppression of valuable discussion, common understanding, & ultimately (and hopefully) a greater degree of tolerance. Little wonder that opinions on complex issues have become so polarized these days.


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Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
No, just that even the most woke humans have residual unconscious biases from our social conditioning, and it requires constant mindfulness to prevent these from manifesting in our words and behaviours.

Not just wrt gender issues, but race, religion, classism etc.

Is what I meant there. . .
Thanks for making my point!
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Old 05-12-2017, 13:23   #1300
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Re: Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

I've been wading through this thread with one foot firmly in both camps. I can say one thing with certainty: there's a whole lot of labelling going on on each side.

Scenario 1: I'm a woman (just cause I am) and I'm feeling good about myself. NOT someone's reflection of me, just whatever makes me happy and confident is going on in my life right now. I hear a low wolf whistle - wow my day gets better, and there's an extra skip in my step.

Scenario 2: I'm a woman (just cause I am) and I'm feeling bad about myself. My boss is creeping me out with his double entendres and I know the guy who I dated last week was not going to work out, but the guy didn't even bother to act interested in me, it was all narcissistic BS. I hear a low wolf whistle - wow my day gets worse, I feel threatened, and I walk faster to get away.

The difference in reception of the same wolf whistle depends on how I am feeling internally and what's going on externally. This can change from week to week (or pick a time period).

Personally, this is where my reactions all come from. Now if someone has been brutalized I know this wouldn't be the case and rightly so.

For a group of sailors, who have been labelled kooks all our lives for wanting this kind of life style, you'd think we could stop hanging signs on each other and consigning the other side to hell so gleefully. I often wonder if the vitriol would be so, well, vitriolic, if we had to sign our real names.

So I'll sign mine - Paty
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Old 05-12-2017, 13:35   #1301
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Re: Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

Redhead, I see no need to co-mingle funds. If she wishes to contribute towards the food, I would appreciate it.
The boat is in my name alone and is therefore totally my expense.
My LAST ex-wife was disappointed that I did not grant her total access to my funds.
Yes, we did have a prenup and she got the settlement as the described in the prenup plus a little bit extra as a 'lovely parting gift, so she could go to Europe for awhile. Aren't I generous?
Let's just say, it was a celebration when she left and inflicted herself on the next guy. Realize, the marriage lasted less than 2 years.
I make it very clear, I will never marry again. If she wishes to co-habit with me and we agree, fine. If not, fine.
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And you folks thought I knew what I was talking about.
I do believe my intuitive gene has died.
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Old 05-12-2017, 14:00   #1302
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Re: Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

I think that, from reading many of these posts, that some of you should consider going gay. You’d have your physical needs satisfied, and have an able bodied deck-hand in the bargain. There are quite a lot of gay sailors if the interwebs are to believed.
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Old 05-12-2017, 20:43   #1303
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Re: Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

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Personally, this is where my reactions all come from. Now if someone has been brutalized I know this wouldn't be the case and rightly so.

For a group of sailors, who have been labelled kooks all our lives for wanting this kind of life style, you'd think we could stop hanging signs on each other and consigning the other side to hell so gleefully. I often wonder if the vitriol would be so, well, vitriolic, if we had to sign our real names.
Wifey B: One person can make such a difference. That's what each person here needs to be so aware of. You have power. You can use it for good or for bad.

I ran away from home at 4:00 AM the morning I was to turn 16. Why? Because my father had told me that he was going to teach me what it was like to be a woman on my birthday, even have a couple of others join in. This is the same man who told me I better learn how to use my body as that was the only way I'd ever make any money.

For five years I believed the worst about men. There were a few exceptions. I heard offensive remarks constantly. Most guys only saw my breasts and butt.

Then I met another man. Damn him, I never cried before him and just writing this makes me cry. He looked me in the eyes and told me how beautiful my sparkling blue eyes were. He said my dimples gave me a perpetual smile. He asked me what I hoped for in my future, asked me what I enjoyed and about my hobbies and passions. He looked straight through my eyes deep into my soul. I never knew it possible before. Yes, we didn't waste much time before sex, but I was the aggressor. Still wildly going at it in bed, he didn't talk dirty but he talked to me about life, about me. We shared our life stories. I cried hearing his, my first cry ever. I couldn't cry for myself, but he did cry at my story. I shared every part of my life and so did he. Best sex I'd ever had by far, but first time I'd ever had a man make love to me. I knew within two hours of meeting him I loved him but still couldn't imagine this handsome, successful, brilliant business man could love me. I didn't comprehend that he loved me the same but couldn't imagine someone like me loving him. This was the weekend of October 13-15, 2000 and 17 years later I love him even more.

Two men in my life. One destructive, one elevated me to a level I never imagined. This high school drop out got her college degree, a masters and a doctorate and taught school. I achieved my dreams because the love of my life cared about them and shared them with me. Between October and June when we got married, we faced challenges you only see in the movies with violence, murder, government agencies, drama of every kind but I never had an unhappy day because he was either with me or waiting for me when he couldn't be. I knew together we could and would do it.

He gives me credit for changing his life but has such a hard time taking it for what he did for me. Well, he's changed the lives of many other females along the way, many who run our company for us.

That's the thing each of us do need to remember. We impact people every day. We influence their attitudes by our actions and words. Think of how to have a positive impact. Treat someone with respect. You may get a girl with crudeness and deception but that's not how you're going to find the woman of your dreams. Look at the powerful men who have abused and are so hated by all they ever worked with or were around.

Lady and Gentleman. Two words that sometimes seem archaic. You can be a lady and still be sexy as heck. You can be a gentleman and still a hunk. Those words aren't shallow. They are how you think of and treat others.

I'm going to close this post by saying this too. If every guy or every girl you run across seems to be bad or lying or misrepresenting or looking just for sex or disrespectful or mean or anything else bad, then you need to look in the mirror. Why are you only meeting those? How are you bringing that out in them? What can you do differently? And if the people around you constantly take you down, then find a different group of people to be around. Run away. Smartest thing I ever did and never looked back. It's not hopeless. If you're looking for a sailing partner who feels the same way you do, you only need to find one. They are out there, somewhere. Don't keep looking in the same places though.

50 years ago couples met the first time in churches. 20 years ago it was bars and clubs. Now, it's online. Online relationships are disasters and incredibly successful. The reason for the extremes is the honesty shown from the outset. If you want to sail and share a cabin and have great sex all the time, then say so. If you want to sail and remain strictly platonic then say so. If you don't know what you want, then say so. If you have 15 years sailing experience crossing oceans, say so, and if you've never been on a sailboat but would like to learn then say so.

If things change say so. Up until 7:00 PM or so on October 13, 2000, both my hubby and I were totally convinced love and marriage were not in our future. Neither of us could imagine it. By 9:00 PM we'd completely changed our minds.
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Old 05-12-2017, 21:05   #1304
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Re: Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

That is one heck of a story. Thank you for sharing it.

Obviously this relationship stuff isn't all gloom and doom.

Well done.
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Old 05-12-2017, 21:25   #1305
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Re: Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

Dear catcallers, it’s not a compliment

To show how routine street harassment is, Noa Jansma took a selfie with every man who catcalled her for a month and posted the photos

https://www.instagram.com/dearcatcallers/

They look amazingly pleased with themselves!
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