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Old 26-10-2017, 08:55   #886
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Re: Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

Many people get entertainment and stimulation from what others see as unnecessary conflict.

A rewarding sex life for everyone concerned helps keep emotions in harmony.

In an enlightened relationship that doesn't need to be limited to those at the center of the long-term partnership.

I think monogamy is completely unrealistic for most healthy humans. Unfortunately most people have been brainwashed so that the myriad solutions to these problems are beyond the pale, taboo from even abstract discussion.
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Old 26-10-2017, 09:14   #887
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Re: Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

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Originally Posted by brownoarsman View Post
Stu's point is that the average $106k could be 9 families making zero and one family making $1,060,000, or ten families making $106k each. Same average, very different median and modal statistics, and very different results depending on how many doors you knock on.

Similarly, while every female doctor you meet may be making the same as every male doctor, this doesn't take into account the large number of female nurses, who themselves may have chosen to be doctors (and so earn more) if it were not for the commitments of motherhood, societal expectations, etc.
...... the large number of female nurses, who themselves may have chosen to be doctors .... but didn't

Nothing similar there at all
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Old 26-10-2017, 09:30   #888
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Re: Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

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Originally Posted by daletournier View Post
"Anyone other than a white male makes less in the same job" quote.

There's a big absolute statement!
In my own experience working at Dupont Chemical Plant @1980s women engineers were paid more than male engineers. The single black engineer was paid more still.

Whenever I read about women making less it is never for the exact same job. Women have more opportunities now than ever before.
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Old 26-10-2017, 09:55   #889
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Re: Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

"Women have more opportunities now than ever before."
....says it all...."before" they were the chattels of men...& this "before" was only 50. 60 years ago in the "humanistic" worldsphere, & is "present" in a large proportion of the world today ("islamic" world...)
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Old 26-10-2017, 12:27   #890
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Re: Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

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Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
Many people get entertainment and stimulation from what others see as unnecessary conflict.

A rewarding sex life for everyone concerned helps keep emotions in harmony.

In an enlightened relationship that doesn't need to be limited to those at the center of the long-term partnership.

I think monogamy is completely unrealistic for most healthy humans. Unfortunately most people have been brainwashed so that the myriad solutions to these problems are beyond the pale, taboo from even abstract discussion.
More than a little presumptuous to say that your way is "enlightened," and traditional monogamy is the result of being "brainwashed," no? Nothing wrong in my mind with however consenting adults want to arrange things, but for a lot of people sex = emotional intimacy and monogamy is an essential part of preserving that.
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Old 26-10-2017, 12:29   #891
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Re: Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

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Originally Posted by double u View Post
"Women have more opportunities now than ever before."
....says it all...."before" they were the chattels of men...& this "before" was only 50. 60 years ago in the "humanistic" worldsphere, & is "present" in a large proportion of the world today ("islamic" world...)
In other words, progress has been made (at least in the western world).
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Old 26-10-2017, 12:31   #892
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Re: Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

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It's easy when it's right. It's not just hard when it's wrong, it's impossible.
Probably obvious to most, but I'm a slow learner. I'm going to remember that!
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Old 26-10-2017, 13:53   #893
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Re: Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

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Originally Posted by john61ct View Post

In an enlightened relationship that doesn't need to be limited to those at the center of the long-term partnership.

I think monogamy is completely unrealistic for most healthy humans. Unfortunately most people have been brainwashed so that the myriad solutions to these problems are beyond the pale, taboo from even abstract discussion.
I agree with much of what you said. Would be surprised if it was adopted by a major political party though.
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Old 26-10-2017, 20:09   #894
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Re: Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

First hit on Google

"It might be a treasured value in many human cultures, but*monogamy*is rare in the animal kingdom at large. Of the roughly 5,000 species of*mammals, only 3 to 5 percent are known to form lifelong pair bonds. This select group includes beavers, otters, wolves, some bats and foxes and a few hoofed animals.Nov 20, 2006

And from what I've read monogamous for the 3-5% doesn't actually mean the animals are sexully faithful to their mates, just that they stay with them!
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Old 26-10-2017, 20:11   #895
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Re: Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

Wifey B, enjoy reading your remarks because u r a woman in a good relationship. You mentioned that statistics don't lie. Ah, I would agree with u wholeheartedly normally. But what if the statistics r skewed for the publishing source to embellish their agenda... whatever that goal might be... political... financial... demographics... etc
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Old 26-10-2017, 20:13   #896
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Re: Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

Quote:
Originally Posted by double u View Post
"Women have more opportunities now than ever before."
....says it all...."before" they were the chattels of men...& this "before" was only 50. 60 years ago in the "humanistic" worldsphere, & is "present" in a large proportion of the world today ("islamic" world...)
Didn't know we were talking about the past, and I don't think anyone here would argue with you regarding parts of the Islamic world BUT we aren't talking about that either.
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Old 26-10-2017, 20:53   #897
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Re: Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

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Originally Posted by daletournier View Post
First hit on Google

"It might be a treasured value in many human cultures, but*monogamy*is rare in the animal kingdom at large. Of the roughly 5,000 species of*mammals, only 3 to 5 percent are known to form lifelong pair bonds. This select group includes beavers, otters, wolves, some bats and foxes and a few hoofed animals.Nov 20, 2006

And from what I've read monogamous for the 3-5% doesn't actually mean the animals are sexully faithful to their mates, just that they stay with them!
True, but it's also called "naturalistic fallacy" in terms of logic and reasoning when positing one vs another. In keeping with that, I don't think any other species pays much attention to sexual consent, age of consent, the ethicacy of killing, etc, etc... For better or worse, human behavior in tightly coupled with society and it's evolution.

Perhaps it's best to just leave it as we each are empowered to make our own decisions and live with the consequences of such.
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Old 26-10-2017, 20:59   #898
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Re: Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

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True, but it's also called "naturalistic fallacy" in terms of logic and reasoning when positing one vs another. In keeping with that, I don't think any other species pays much attention to sexual consent, age of consent, the ethicity of killing, etc, etc... For better or worse, human behavior in tightly coupled with society and it's evolution.

Perhaps it's best to just leave it as we each are empowered to make our own decisions and live with the consequences of such.
Good point.
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Old 26-10-2017, 23:29   #899
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Re: Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

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Originally Posted by sandrunner View Post
True, but it's also called "naturalistic fallacy" in terms of logic and reasoning when positing one vs another. In keeping with that, I don't think any other species pays much attention to sexual consent, age of consent, the ethicacy of killing, etc, etc... For better or worse, human behavior in tightly coupled with society and it's evolution.

Perhaps it's best to just leave it as we each are empowered to make our own decisions and live with the consequences of such.
The more I think, regarding "naturalistic fallacy" the deeper down the rabbit hole I go. Monogamy should be practiced based on morality and ethics although its not natural in most of the animal kingdom yet homosexuality is ok because it's quite natural? Not sure I worded that right?

No judgement here, just opening a can of worms, and probably way to far outside the perimeters of this discussion.
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Old 26-10-2017, 23:50   #900
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Re: Single Men Living Aboard and Cruising... an honest look.

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Originally Posted by daletournier View Post
The more I think, regarding "naturalistic fallacy" the deeper down the rabbit hole I go. Monogamy should be practiced based on morality and ethics although its not natural in most of the animal kingdom yet homosexuality is ok because it's quite natural? Not sure I worded that right?

No judgement here, just opening a can of worms, and probably way to far outside the perimeters of this discussion.
I think this is a fun can of worms Dale
maybe we should re-spell it
"naturalistic phallusy".

For the record, there are many examples of male on male in the animal kingdom, so all rainbows are part of the monogamy discussion

I for one think that ethics has nothing to do with Monogamy.

It is all about expectations.

If two people agree to Monogamy and one lies or cheats, the ethics part is in the lying.

However if they for whatever reason, freely agree to have sex with others, then that is their business.
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