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Old 30-04-2020, 06:41   #31
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Re: Sell my house for a Swan 48?

I don’t get while so many are aghast about selling the house.
We sold ours to go cruising for many reasons, among them is that houses of a decent size with a bit of land are depreciating in our old home town, and are nearly impossible to sell, even if you give it away, and a Commercial entity made a bid and paid over average price.
We took that money as well as our 401K’s and invested it, it has since returned more money than even if it had been in a nice area.
Then there is the issue of what are you going to do with it while your cruising, we rented it out when I was in the Army and it went well for a couple of renters, but the last one really trashed it, doing I’m sure we’ll over 100K in damage, and I didn’t want that nightmare again.
Then add in that there is no way that I would ever want to return to that town and then it becomes obvious that selling the house was the right thing to do.

However I did not sell the house to fund a half million dollar Swan, that would be a mistake in my opinion, but with any Retirement planning a realistic view of how many years you have left ought to be included in the plan, there is no point in my opinion of dyeing a Millionaire, but of course you don’t want to live for a decade longer than expected and die penniless either.
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Old 30-04-2020, 11:46   #32
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Re: Sell my house for a Swan 48?

I donít know if you have potential beneficiaries but if not why not look at equity release mortgage whereby you fund the boat and itís ongoing maintenance ,mooring, insurance etc from a loan secured on your property which is only repaid on your demise or long term care. Clearly you need an adviser to tell you of the catches to such a loan but might be worth consideration . Say a swan 48 is a few hundred k it rather depends on property value as to whether an equity release is enough but might be ? Alternatively can your next of kin lend you funds secured on house ?
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Old 04-05-2020, 07:09   #33
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Re: Sell my house for a Swan 48?

As a Real estate broker for over 30 years and sailing since then on a wonderful sailing boat, to Bahamas and Florida , my advice would be not to sell your house, but try to get a loan to buy the boat and rent the house for a year or two, and then you will get to know your boat and after to decide what to do, do I sell the house or sell the boat?

Bonne chance
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Old 04-05-2020, 07:26   #34
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Re: Sell my house for a Swan 48?

OK, what's RIGHT with your plan.
I'm a 73 year old long time sailor of a Catalina 36 and a RE agent who doesn't want to sell your house.
First, IMHO, we are at the very top of the RE market so selling now makes some sense. Although somebody's idea of renting out your house for a year or two has a lot of merit.
Second, as we both know, at our ages there's not as much LATER left. I mean ,at this stage of our lives, putting off your dream for "later" means giving up your dream.
Third, the boat. That's a mighty big complicated boat. I'd suggest a smaller, simpler (less to go wrong) boat. The simpler the boat, the less to break, the more you actually go sailing.
Fourth, you are going to die from something, just make sure it's not boredom.
Sail on!
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Old 04-05-2020, 08:14   #35
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Re: Sell my house for a Swan 48?

A boat isn't an investment.

That said, your time is worth more than your money, and you have to decide how you want to spend your time.


'I spent most of my dough on booze, broads and boats and the rest I wasted"
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Old 04-05-2020, 08:26   #36
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Re: Sell my house for a Swan 48?

Swan's sail well, because they are deep draft boats.

I believe the keel on a Swan 48 is 8' deep....or approaching 8'.

An 8' draft is gonna give you LOTSA problems...Lotsa !!!

And like other have mentioned here, the SWAN is basically a racing boat, not a cruising boat...not sure why you have this boat in mind for a " retirement" boat.

Sure, they have an excellent reputation, and are beautifully built, but need an army of deck apes to be sailed to their full potential.
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Old 04-05-2020, 08:54   #37
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Re: Sell my house for a Swan 48?

I drooled over swans as a teen and clueless back then. For cruising I almost never see any Swans well suited to cruising. Cockpits often have traveler right in the middle of everything which you have to climb over and limits any decent full weather bimini, and over 60 myself I favor comfort over speed, a well protected rudder and prop. I'm looking at older Amel maramu and santorins myself.

As to the general concept of selling house and using those proceeds, as many have already noted real estate appreciates, sailboats sink in value. That is a terrible tradeoff. Even if you are forced to sell the house to afford a boat I would try to limit the boat budget to 25% of house value (or such) so you have future options to go back to shore life, not to mention the guilt of spending your kids inheritance. In my case I may (ie trying to talk myself into) be willing to sell my $500k house but hope to limit boat to the $100k ballpark

Those are both very subjective opinions so not meaning to be categorical, just offering my 2c. Best of luck
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Old 04-05-2020, 09:05   #38
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Re: Sell my house for a Swan 48?

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Originally Posted by heritage58 View Post
We always wanted a water view. At my age (69), this may be the time. I notice a severe drop in prices in all assets, boats and houses and equities alike. I'm sure this topic has been written about but I'm new. Regards.
Id love to know what statistics you're basing your real estate market analysis on. While there may have been a slight decline in value in the last month, at 1% or less it is not enough to be statistically significant. In fact, in the vast majority of areas median values are up significantly over this time last year. The real estate market is not the stock market.
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Old 04-05-2020, 09:48   #39
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Re: Sell my house for a Swan 48?

...I kinda agree on the real estate thing....here the real estate market has been booming...
If real estate goes up 50% during the year, and drops 1% during C-19, that's hardly an issue from where I'm standing.
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Old 04-05-2020, 10:10   #40
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Re: Sell my house for a Swan 48?

What kind of Swan 48, Sparkman & Stephens, Frers from the 90's or the most recent Frers 48?

Assuming talking about S&S and I do not want to advocate our own ship which I probably do....

Living and cruising on a S&S Swan 431 for a couple of years now, we think they are great cruisers. We looked for years(10) at an S&S 48 to live on but decided in the last two years of planning to buy a Swan 431. The main reason was to have little bit easier to manage boat (for ocean sailing) with two persons. Also to reduce some cost in replacement of the bigger items like rigging sails etc.

We think the 48 S&S is maybe one the nicest yachts build. I tent to believe it was build in a time when designers decided how it should be done and not what the market wanted. Resulting in very seaworthy sailors sail ships. Sailing and safety are coming before luxury. Still the comfort comes out when living on it, small windowns (not much sun coming in), good ventilation (big dorades), etc. just good design.

We thought the interieur of the 431 was better suited for living aboard with two persons. You have to get used to the entrance, also with the 48 but you do and you get a lot of space back interieur wise in you galley and aft cabin. Even more important, waves have a hard time entering the cabin because the cockpit is closed, very seaworthy. A lot of the interior is build around serious sailing and being able to move trough the boat in heavy weather. That is a form of comfort too.

All Swans are sailors sail ships but you can sail it with just two or even single handled, you just be conservative with setting up sails. They are power full but they sail great with reduced sails and feel like a rock. A lot of times not even slowing down. Those yachts are made to club race with a crew, so cruising with the two of you means everything is overbuild. We like that as we know we will not break it easily. So sailing a Swan conservatively is a very save way of sailing, you know they can deal with that. That is a comfortable feeling in times of stress. You can trust these yachts.

We know from experience these yachts are extremely strong and solid sailing ships. The last two years we sailed from the Netherlands to Bonaire to continue to a circumnavigation when the world opens up again. We love the way she sails and we love living on it. You have to make some compromises as they have less room than a more modern yacht but you get used to it. We prefer the Sparkman & Stephens design as we think these are focused on seaworthiness and made less compromises for comfort reasons. And we like the S&S lines so much. Witch I think is important, if you gonna spend so much time and money on a yacht you better be in love to what you are looking at.

Now if they talk about a brand new 48, that is a different story. I think they are build for a short handed crew and are maybe better suited to use as a more modern liveaboard. But they do have more complex machinery set up. If coastal sailing was my primary goal this could be the easier choice when funds are sufficient. Still I would probably prefer an S&S, but I'm biased

I cannot comment on the Frers Swan from the 90's but know they where very populair. Still a bit more club racing than the new Frers 48

Maybe a new 48 would be the best way to go with not so much experience. These yachts are probably easier to manage. Still I like the classic Swan more and if you have the funds for a new 48 you can have a lot of work being done to a S&S 48. Than you always have a classic Swan 48 that will always look stunning. Next to that you do good work to restore a classic witch can be a nice thing to do to.

I also think you only live once and you should go for things you want if you can manage it and do it now before it is to late. Don't worry to much on getting to old just adjust the conditions of your sailing. Adjust the ship to your capabilities.

You will enjoy the quality of a Swan the moment you own her and that will not fade.

Good luck

Martin
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Old 04-05-2020, 10:33   #41
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Re: Sell my house for a Swan 48?

At your age----consider a a power boat. As others have said.......Swan 48 is not an easy boat to handle. A trawler type power boat is way more comfortable and no rigging to deal with........turn the key and go
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Old 04-05-2020, 11:06   #42
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Re: Sell my house for a Swan 48?

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Originally Posted by tootalltony View Post
At your age----consider a a power boat. As others have said.......Swan 48 is not an easy boat to handle. A trawler type power boat is way more comfortable and no rigging to deal with........turn the key and go

I agree, but I would add; He has said nothing other than he wants an ocean view and a Swan. Sounds like a disaster in the making. Boat prices are stagnating and will likely be falling like a rock over the next year plus. Big powerboats have been in the dumper for sometime due to higher fuel prices ($4.00/gallon for alky free at 1 mpg = $4.00/mile) If you want to spend a lot of time at the dock, why not get a big cruiser. An older Hatteras with diesels that has been decently maintained will likely keep its value more than most. Motor it around once in a while and when you get tired of it, sell it at a loss. Even a 40 foot cruiser with big blocks that you run once in a while would be a lot more practical for dock sitting than a Swan. You don't drive an Indy car to get groceries, why would you buy a Swan for dock life?
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Old 04-05-2020, 12:40   #43
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Re: Sell my house for a Swan 48?

Just a wild thought, now that interest rates are rock bottom. A home equity line would cover the price of your boat, and then your house could remain as an asset for the future in your ownership occupied by renters. Boat loans are crazy but if you have home equity you can take large numbers for a very low rate and what you gain in retaining home ownership should cover the depreciation on your boat. And worse case if you change your wishes for health reasons or just finding it less attractive than you imagined..You can always reverse your course.

Im someone who sold a floating home to live aboard my sailboat, no regrets but if Id been able to continue owning both I'd now be way ahead. This was in the post 08 crash when we had no idea if life would come back to normal.

Anyway let the bank take the risks and then pay a little interest. Now when rates are bouncing off zero in our policy maker's attempts to keep our house of cards standing..
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Old 04-05-2020, 13:00   #44
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Re: Sell my house for a Swan 48?

Get an Amel Super Maramu 53 foot ketch. Safe, fast, comfortable, incredible storage, all sail systems in the center cockpit. No need to go on deck to change or reef sails. Easy to handle. Older sailors dream boat.
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Old 04-05-2020, 13:18   #45
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Re: Sell my house for a Swan 48?

If we are looking at boat choice I tend to agree that a swan would not be the first solution for a liveabOard life style so do have a look around based on a list of criteria that suits your needs. Always thought a Dutch steel yacht might be wOrth a look
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