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Old 29-03-2019, 14:58   #31
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Re: Self Defense aboard

I don't know with what they were armed, I just said they were armed, maybe a knife?

But the old guy was treated like he shot one of them. So, fishbowl = GUN. Probably a GLOCK, not much metal in a fishbowl, and they're very reliable.

I believe the store owner on Spadina was in the mid 2000s, not nearly as old. But that incident did encourage the gummint to modify the citizens arrest laws, to say that you could arrest after the incident occurred, rather than only while the offense was being committed.

Cheers.
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Old 29-03-2019, 15:19   #32
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Re: Self Defense aboard

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But the old guy was treated like he shot one of them.

Maybe it was because he killed the fish.
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Old 29-03-2019, 15:27   #33
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Re: Self Defense aboard

Most countries have a way of outlawing "excessive force", one way and another, so your "self defense" really has to take that into account. I think in California, it's called "mayhem", it's the law that does forbid use of oven spray for self defense.

In Australia and New Zealand, "deadly force" is not allowed for the defense of property. i don't know about "self" here.

I think it is up to all of us to decide what we would do with whatever's to hand, but understand that if they (more than one) are armed, even if only machetes, they're liable to get scared and more violent. You might actually be better off to dive off your boat and swim over to the next guy in the anchorage, and ask for help than to risk your own life. Do not indulge in self promoting heroic fantasy that supports one's ego: be really down to earth realistic.

I used to be the heroine of my fantasies, and I carried a breaker bar, a 1/2" drive socket bar about 18" long, next to the seat in my car, I worked in a "bad" area. The plan was to
use it on anyone's hands or face who was a threat. I never had to use it. At my age, fleeing the boat is probably the most sensible.

The practice of not going places with a reputation for attacking cruisers is the most sensible form of protection, and then you don't ever have to use whatever it is that you plan on.

Ann, age 79
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Old 29-03-2019, 15:49   #34
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Re: Self Defense aboard

Agreed Ann. But not having a reputation, doesn't mean safe. No guaranty of safety anywhere. I think, as your younger self did, that it's best to be prepared for the worst, and hope for the best. Rather than think one's safe, and experience the worst, without a plan in place.

Cheers.
Paul, younger than 79, but hoping to get there...one day.

Good onya Ann.
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Old 29-03-2019, 16:13   #35
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Re: Self Defense aboard

If you carry a SCUBA bottle of compressed air, a soft and rigid tube, a sinker or a bottle of ball bearings you can make a very effective firearm or machine gun these can be as big a deterrent as you like by opening the valve more or less. Be careful you could easily kill some one. It would be powerful enough to hole a dingy if you could hit it at right angles.
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Old 29-03-2019, 16:24   #36
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Self Defense aboard

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If you carry a SCUBA bottle of compressed air, a soft and rigid tube, a sinker or a bottle of ball bearings you can make a very effective firearm or machine gun these can be as big a deterrent as you like by opening the valve more or less. Be careful you could easily kill some one. It would be powerful enough to hole a dingy if you could hit it at right angles.


Of course then you have a weapon, one that we meant to be hidden and self made, likely to get you into even more trouble than a firearm, in fact an air rifle in many places, is considered to be a firearm.

Its like one of the inserts to turn your flare pistol into a gun.
Get caught with one of them, and Id bet your Im more trouble than if it was a real gun.
Think about it, your knowingly and intentionally, hiding a deadly weapon.

For Centuries air rifles have been extremely powerful. In fact I believe Lewis and Clark carried air rifles to protect themselves from bears etc.
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Old 29-03-2019, 16:56   #37
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Re: Self Defense aboard

Suppose one has a machete aboard. They are a tool for opening coconuts, but might also fit A64pilot's definition of a hidden deadly weapon....

I think it is probably instinct to try to protect your home, rather than swim away from a threat. Live to fight another day, and all that.

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Old 29-03-2019, 17:56   #38
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Re: Self Defense aboard

At night a strobe will certainly slow someone down. But honestly how much ground do you have to cover once you are on the boat?

Security through obscurity. Hidden compartment with a firearm would be my ideal. Not “locked” up yet easily accessible only to you.

Some jurisdictions that probably puts you at risk for a long prison term. So... do you fear the criminal or the police more?
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Old 29-03-2019, 19:00   #39
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Re: Self Defense aboard

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It seems clear that having a firearm aboard is a major no-no in most of the places I would like to visit. However, the prevalence of crime in some locations seems to call for some means of defense. I'm interested in anybody's experience using non-lethal measures such as tasers, high powered strobe lights, etc. What seems to work best?
Since you need to carry a flare device on board. There are adapters to the European made metal Flare guns, that are drop in and allow you to fire 410-gauge shot-gun shells. The kick-back is not too strong, but does make one hell of a noise. And the heavy Russian, German, Polish 26.5mm Flare Guns can more than handle it.
There are also adapters that allow 12-gauge shot-gun shells to be fired, but I experienced once and it had one hell of a kick, I would not recommend. But I do use the 12-gauge shot-gun shell adapter, to enable me to fire 12-gauge flares. 26.5mm flares are hard to find.
I do not have the 410-adapter and Flare Gun stored in same case, but 410-adapter is in location that is next to Flare case, but adapter is doubling up as a diffrent purpose. Use your imagination.
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Old 30-03-2019, 09:05   #40
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Re: Self Defense aboard

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I'm pretty sure self defense is a universal right. Please give some pointers to countries where self defense is a crime that puts you in jail... I need to read up on those
Others have posted some things already, but in a foreign country you are at a dissadvantage over a citizen. The laws, customs and politics, are not the same as in the USA. I do not keep track of the self defence news stories I've read but an Internet search can reveal some.

It is best to avoid shady places.
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Old 30-03-2019, 09:44   #41
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Re: Self Defense aboard

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So... do you fear the criminal or the police more?
This is the real question that always pops into my head in these threads. Moral issues aside, a lot of people...generally the real self-defence enthusiasts... immediately assume that their lives are at risk and therefore concluded, logically, that police/jail are the better bet. Others side with a gentler perception of human nature and figure the odds of losing anything more than a material possession are minimal and not worth rotting in a foreign jail.

I realize the actual choices here are geographically and politically variant, but it would be interesting (albeit virtually impossible) to look at it from a statistical point of view and have people judge on the basis of a percentage likelihood: if I had a 25% chance of suffering extreme violence I would a) commit to deadly force or b) surrender or flee. A 40% chance? 60%? 10%?
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Old 30-03-2019, 09:54   #42
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Re: Self Defense aboard

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It seems clear that having a firearm aboard is a major no-no in most of the places I would like to visit. However, the prevalence of crime in some locations seems to call for some means of defense. I'm interested in anybody's experience using non-lethal measures such as tasers, high powered strobe lights, etc. What seems to work best?
The problem with tasers, is in a wet environment most likely you will be shocked first by the moisture conducting the charge directly back to you. You will be standing frozen in shock for a split second, then left in a confused state for a good 30 sec. This is from personal experience.
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Old 30-03-2019, 10:05   #43
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Re: Self Defense aboard

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This is the real question that always pops into my head in these threads. Moral issues aside, a lot of people...generally the real self-defence enthusiasts... immediately assume that their lives are at risk and therefore concluded, logically, that police/jail are the better bet. Others side with a gentler perception of human nature and figure the odds of losing anything more than a material possession are minimal and not worth rotting in a foreign jail.

I realize the actual choices here are geographically and politically variant, but it would be interesting (albeit virtually impossible) to look at it from a statistical point of view and have people judge on the basis of a percentage likelihood: if I had a 25% chance of suffering extreme violence I would a) commit to deadly force or b) surrender or flee. A 40% chance? 60%? 10%?
I agree it can be a better choice to surrender or flee if possible.
That is assuming your lady or children are not in danger also. If they are in danger, then I believe it is my duty, responsibility, instinct to protect them, with my own life if needed.
I am not saying go look for trouble. But i do know it is:
Better to have a weapon, and not need it.
Then to need one, and not have it.
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Old 30-03-2019, 10:10   #44
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Re: Self Defense aboard

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That is assuming your lady or children are not in danger also. If they are in danger, then I believe it is my duty, responsibility, instinct to protect them, with my own life if needed.
I don't disagree but I would propose that a determination of the likelihood of "danger" is, in a lot of cases, subjective. Some people will err on the side of caution. Some people will not. How much caution are you willing to go to jail for?
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Old 30-03-2019, 10:30   #45
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Re: Self Defense aboard

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I am not saying go look for trouble. But i do know it is:
Better to have a weapon, and not need it.
Then to need one, and not have it.

This seems reasonable on the face of it, but doesn't take into account the following:
  • does the weapon owner know how and when to use it competently in a stress situation? Frankly, not many, though we all imagine that we could.
  • its presence doesn't guarantee greater safety; the mere presence of the weapon, depending upon what it is, increases the chance of injuries to all parties through misuse, escalation, accident, etc
  • it could be brought out when it's use isn't justified (eg simple theft), leading to escalation. Or, a weapon might be a richer target than the usual stuff a petty thief might steal. So the one guy you scare off with it tonight will come back with some buddies tomorrow. Or he'll rat you out if he's arrested.
So there are negatives to possessing weapons, especially ones with high lethality and that are often prohibited where you travel. Statistically speaking, the probability of a negative outcome often outweighs the potential advantages. One should be fully cognizant of this before deciding to bring weapons.
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