Self Defense

[Dpackie]

I searched the forums for threads about security and only find information about being secure on your boat. What about being safe while out on excursion? Traveling with weapons seems difficult, and some times you turn in your firearm when you enter a country. Not to mention the frequency with which a firearm is used against the owner, or accidentally injures a friend or family member. To me it seems not worth it to be armed if your cruising and crossing borders. Does anyone train martial arts? Self defense? Is this something people consider as part of the skill set of someone living on a boat, and traveling to remote and sometimes less secure regions of the world?

If you have never thought of it before, would basic self defense skills be something you would value for your or your family while cruising?
Dave

[Lou-In-NJ]

In what I've seen, it almost doesn't matter what the weapon is, the person in distress has to have the will to defend themselves; and from just a thought experiment standpoint, victims of attacks are most likely going to be identified as potential targets before an attack, due to certain characteristics. Your traveling with children, your more likely to comply during a confrontation, your a woman, you may be deemed to be an easier target simply because of the high average level of agreeableness of women which means greater compliance. None of this even goes to size or strength. To your point about guns being used on their owners, I think it would be interesting to study, how many of them (owners) failed to use the gun when they had the chance, and instead "relinquished" control because they didn't have the nerve to use it.

For my part, I think a nice hickory walking stick would suffice.

[Dpackie]

Originally Posted by Lou-In-NJ

In what I've seen, it almost doesn't matter what the weapon is, the person in distress has to have the will to defend themselves; and from just a thought experiment standpoint, victims of attacks are most likely going to be identified as potential targets before an attack, due to certain characteristics. Your traveling with children, your more likely to comply during a confrontation, your a woman, you may be deemed to be an easier target simply because of the high average level of agreeableness of women which means greater compliance. None of this even goes to size or strength. To your point about guns being used on their owners, I think it would be interesting to study, how many of them (owners) failed to use the gun when they had the chance, and instead "relinquished" control because they didn't have the nerve to use it.

For my part, I think a nice hickory walking stick would suffice.

I agree. Attitude and awareness are the first level of self defense preparedness.

That said, I have watched 130 pound housewives in their 40s completely dismantle men well over 200 pounds. Not in the striking arts, but on the ground. We have a local law enforcement representative come into our club. He was 225, fairly fit, and had police training. I watched him dragged to the ground against is will, worn down to the point of exhaustion, and strangled with his own clothing by a female housewife, 130 pounds, BLUE BELT (one promotion away from white belt beginner). She had 2 years of training. He never came back to train BTW.

The easy target is the way predators work. Good basic self defense skills, not garbage martial arts, can level the playing field in a hurry specifically for small and overpowered individuals. There is also a lot of technique involved in knife defense, and offense that quickly and significantly change the game.

Is this something folks would consider?

[barnakiel]

Where do you live that you have developed such an attitude?


Where do you intend to cruise?


Bad encounters of the kind are extremely rare, unprovoked.


If you grew up in such a neighbourhood, rest assured elsewhere it is not quite that bad. Unless you are seeking trouble. Then you will find trouble.


Seek peace. Avoid bad spots. And you have 99.99% chance of being fine.


Yes, some of us trained in stuff like Taekwodo, Aikido and some wrestling. Today I would have elected Krav Maga over Taekwondo. It is far more realistic. Today I am over 50 and 80% of the young guys on the local beach are faster and stronger than me. So much for martial arts.



Yes, some, specifically US citizens, insist on having a fire arm. But people with guns are not welcomed in many places. You have a gun you are likely to use it. If you have one, perhaps leave it home.



My take then is:


- avoid bad spots,
- speak languages,
- respect local people,
- smile, share, RELAX.


Unless you set yourself into a position to get hurt, you are highly unlikely to be in one.

Take care,
barnakiel

[chris mac]

I didn't train specifically for cruising. But I have taken about 5 years karate. 3 years wrestling, 7 years muaythai, 7 years BJJ
Plus competed at a national level in san shou, even though I never trained in it
Martial arts, or self defense, are great ways to protect yourself and family. But that said, most thieves in third world countries are pretty desperate. They (commonly) steal because they have few or no other options. For the little cash I carry, I would rather just give it to them. At that point it isn't worth the risk, and they obviously need it more than me.
If however the threat is bodily harm to myself or another, I wouldn't hesitate to start breaking limbs

[chris mac]

Well said

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Where do you live that you have developed such an attitude?


Where do you intend to cruise?


Bad encounters of the kind are extremely rare, unprovoked.


If you grew up in such a neighbourhood, rest assured elsewhere it is not quite that bad. Unless you are seeking trouble. Then you will find trouble.


Seek peace. Avoid bad spots. And you have 99.99% chance of being fine.


Yes, some of us trained in stuff like Taekwodo, Aikido and some wrestling. Today I would have elected Krav Maga over Taekwondo. It is far more realistic. Today I am over 50 and 80% of the young guys on the local beach are faster and stronger than me. So much for martial arts.



Yes, some, specifically US citizens, insist on having a fire arm. But people with guns are not welcomed in many places. You have a gun you are likely to use it. If you have one, perhaps leave it home.



My take then is:


- avoid bad spots,
- speak languages,
- respect local people,
- smile, share, RELAX.


Unless you set yourself into a position to get hurt, you are highly unlikely to be in one.

Take care,
barnakiel

[introverted]

Originally Posted by Dpackie

There is also a lot of technique involved in knife defense...

Is this something folks would consider?

No. please don't ever think there is a specific knife defense that works. all these youtube videos of guys showing you how to disarm an assailant with a knife are garbage. If you ever are boarded by someone with a knife and you attempt to disarm them with some trickery you have just escalated a hold-up situation to a life or death situation.

If you or someone else turns it in to a life or death situation then the first thing that is going to help you is the state of your physical conditioning. As someone that competes in BJJ I can without a doubt say that most fights go to the guy or gal that is most fit. Of course, in BJJ you are competing against similarly skilled UNARMED opponent. The moment you introduce weapons in to the melee all bets are off. The most important thing you can use is your brain. comply, don't try to be a hero, and walk away with your life... even if that means you lose your iPad and wallet. The only time to escalate against someone wielding a knife is if you have a gun. I would never for a moment think I could fight unarmed against a man with a knife.... even if I were supremely confident in my own skills vs. his.

Now of course, if you cant use your brain to deescalate a situation or the attackers are not concerned with taking your wealth but rather inflicting physical harm then you have no option other than to rage back at them with all you have. Whether that be BJJ skills, a 24" crescent wrench, or that $9.99 video you bought that says it can teach you how to disarm a knife from a grown man.

If you have gotten to this point of concern then I would suggest you just get a gun to have on board. The peace of mind might actually be good for you.

[Checkswrecks]

The question was about being on an excursion, not on the boat.
and
The need to learn self defense.

I've worked around the world for decades and will second everything Barnakiel wrote. If you have a doubt about someplace, either don't go there or ensure you are safe when you do by enlisting locals. It's common sense and that simple. The few times I've gotten in trouble have been when I didn't do one or the other.

Don't overlook the idea of enlisting locals or thinking about who to ask for local help. You don't need to be a hotel guest to ask this kind of question to the concierge by the door. "I want to go to XXX, so who could I get to take me or to go along who knows the area?" Same with the front desk at a marina or some other business you are dealing with.

My last time doing this was in Ethiopia last year and the concierge set me up with a "friend" who turned out to be a retired Air Force captain, trained by the Russians. I always buy them a cold water before we start out so we can get acquainted. He drove me all over everywhere in his old Mercedes and stayed with me for more than a half day for just under $50.


Similar thoughts about learning self defense. While anything you learn can is a positive, the couple of times I found myself alone in a place where there is a hostile group, it's been because I've gone where I shouldn't and 9 times out of 10 knew it before hand. The answer has always been to just move along and not keep getting deeper into the ****. If it's a bunch of unarmed kids/teens then you already outweigh them, so push your way out of there. If bigger guys outnumber you, then you aren't going to win a fight so just try to walk away and if needed empty your pockets as you keep going back towards someplace safer. They'll chase dollars blowing down the street if they see pockets turned inside out. If you are carrying your passport you don't want them to know or be able to see the outline in a pocket.

As for a stick or any other weapon, you're a novice, they are desperate, probably more experienced than you in fighting (especially with a knife), and you can assume that unless you are well trained (you wouldn't be asking if so) they are going to use your weapon against you.

[IslandInfedel]

Gun wise there have been studies by the CDC that show, yes, a gun will make you more safe, result in less injury if you are attacked and deter crime.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulhsi.../#60d51b3a299a

But traveling to many places they are a problematic, however as Colt once said, “God Created Men and Sam Colt Made Them Equal!”

The talk about the smaller woman defending the larger man on the ground, unless she has MAJOR training or he is very drunk, a 100lb weight difference, that ain’t going to go well on the ground.


if you’re in a fight, it’s 100% aggression, anything you think would be going too far, do that, put your thumb in their eye, try to reach to the back of the socket, if you’re going to punch think of all the areas you’d most not want to be punched, when you strike mentally picture punching through the object, zero hold back.

Knife defense? There is a reason if you pull a knife on a cop most times the cops go to lethal force, old saying is you charge a gun but run from a knife, there are VERY little defenses for a knife, just depends on who end up bleeding the least. Also look into how fast a human can close a 20’ distance

Know when to hold em and when to fold em, if they have you at a disadvantaged position do whatever they say within reason until a situation presents itself.

This guys videos are HIGHLY recommended.

https://m.youtube.com/c/ActiveSelfProtection/featured

The talk about its super unlikely to ever need to defend yourself, that’s BS
Remember you are your first and last line of defense, even in advanced countries the police don’t really stop the crime as much as just document how you became a victim.

[admiralslater]

My wife and I have cruised in the Caribbean for 5 winters . Up till now we have had no issues but I understand other people have .
Several self defence responses have resulted in Jail time for the the boaters , including forcing someone back into the water after which they drowned .
Please dont start the they deserve it responses,they dont help .
On our boat we barrel bolt the companion way in the evening . The barrel bolt is quick to open as it does not need a key. We also have two solar motion detector lights that shine on the the sugar scoops .
Last year we got a high quality flashlight with a strobe in it . I tried it on my self for a split second and it took several minutes for my eyes to come back to normal . If I shone it in the eyes of someone I think it would stop them with out injury.

As I said earlier we have had no issues but we are aware of the possibility.

[japawil]

As far as cruising is concerned, I agree with barnakiel, situational awareness is key.
That being said; if you have an interest in learning a martial art beyond just for peace of mind while cruising I would encourage it.
You must realize you don’t learn a martial art by reading a book or watching a video. To be effective requires practice and dedication through continuous training, it’s not something that happens overnight.
If you have an interest in investing the time and dedication to train AND want it to be effective in a real life situation (including cruising) I would suggest you avoid those arts which have become “sportified” and gravitate toward the no holds barred self defense type.

[mikereed100]

As a black belt who trained in martial arts for many years, I have always maintained that the most effective martial art is the 100 yard dash.

But seriously, just use your nut. Don't go wandering about in areas that don't feel right. If confronted, just hand over the goods. The money in your pocket isn't worth the risk of injury to yourself or your antagonist.

[introverted]

Originally Posted by Checkswrecks

The question was about being on an excursion, not on the boat.

My bad, substitute "on excursion" for everything I said about on "boat." In fact, it's the same whether you are on boat, on excursion, or at home going to the grocery store. don't try to disarm an attacker with a knife. Those knife defense classes are all bogus and will result in you getting hurt or worse. Self defense is great, but ask any professor or master of any REAL self defense technique and they will all say the same thing, "don't mess with a man with a weapon." The only way to consistently defeat a man with a weapon is to have your own weapon... preferably one that is bigger.

I would never go on an excursion if I thought there might be a good chance I'm going to have to disarm someone or choke them out. I'll stay on the boat.

[IslandInfedel]

Originally Posted by introverted

My bad, substitute "on excursion" for everything I said about on "boat." In fact, it's the same whether you are on boat, on excursion, or at home going to the grocery store. don't try to disarm an attacker with a knife. Those knife defense classes are all bogus and will result in you getting hurt or worse. Self defense is great, but ask any professor or master of any REAL self defense technique and they will all say the same thing, "don't mess with a man with a weapon." The only way to consistently defeat a man with a weapon is to have your own weapon... preferably one that is bigger.

I would never go on an excursion if I thought there might be a good chance I'm going to have to disarm someone or choke them out. I'll stay on the boat.

Guess you’ll be spending most of the time on the boat.

If we could predict these things we wouldn’t have crime.

I am not much of a homebody, I like to explore around and I interact with all sorts, the few times I have been in feisty situations have been in areas you would have never suspected, one reason is soft targets who have the most money are in nicer areas, this is known to victimizers too, hoodlums are not just confined to the hood.

[sailorboy1]

There are threads on the topic, lots of those really if you use the search.

But if you haven't felt the need to take a self defensive class at “home” why would you need it for “there”. Except for doing stupid stuff and behavior “home” and “there” are basically the same.