Cruisers Forum
 


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 15-08-2020, 17:41   #31
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 20,648
Re: Self Defense

Discussions about politics, weaponry and religion are permitted only in association with the topic of this forum and will be closed or removed if they become disruptive. --From the community rules we all agreed to when we joined.

In case you're wondering what "disruptive" turns out to mean, practically, that one of the volunteer moderators will close the thread, or simply delete posts.

Some of you will have noticed that the original poster has had his question answered to his satisfaction.

Ann
JPA Cate, moderator
__________________
Who scorns the calm has forgotten the storm.
JPA Cate is offline  
Old 15-08-2020, 18:20   #32
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 25,667
Images: 2
pirate Re: Self Defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandInfedel View Post
Lol, you don’t.
Unless you physically look like the locals and speak the same dialect and dress the same, you are not fooling anyone, you are the tourist.
If you say so..
Its what people read into your manner that matters not your colour, and as for how one talks.. most can't tell where I come from especially the white folk..
But then I've always felt comfortable on either side of the tracks. though the S side is in my experience more honest..
Also, long pants and boots in the tropics is not tourist wear.. shorts, flip flops/sandals and flowery shirts are.
Oh.. and lots of mosquito bites..
__________________


Born To Be Wild.. Double Click on the picture.
boatman61 is offline  
Old 15-08-2020, 18:21   #33
Registered User
 
nwdiver's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Boat: C&C Landfall 38
Posts: 731
Re: Self Defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou-In-NJ View Post
In what I've seen, it almost doesn't matter what the weapon is, the person in distress has to have the will to defend themselves; and from just a thought experiment standpoint, victims of attacks are most likely going to be identified as potential targets before an attack, due to certain characteristics. Your traveling with children, your more likely to comply during a confrontation, your a woman, you may be deemed to be an easier target simply because of the high average level of agreeableness of women which means greater compliance. None of this even goes to size or strength. To your point about guns being used on their owners, I think it would be interesting to study, how many of them (owners) failed to use the gun when they had the chance, and instead "relinquished" control because they didn't have the nerve to use it.

For my part, I think a nice hickory walking stick would suffice.
I’m of the walking stick tribe also, and I know how to use it, mine unscrews in the middle and becomes two batons....
nwdiver is offline  
Old 15-08-2020, 18:26   #34
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Depends on the month
Boat: 32’ Sloop
Posts: 266
Re: Self Defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
If you say so..
Its what people read into your manner that matters not your colour, and as for how one talks.. most can't tell where I come from especially the white folk..
But then I've always felt comfortable on either side of the tracks. though the S side is in my experience more honest..
Also, long pants and boots in the tropics is not tourist wear.. shorts, flip flops/sandals and flowery shirts are.
Oh.. and lots of mosquito bites..

For the country/yacht club I agree.

For the predators, no, it’s because you’re 5 shades lighter, 5” taller, talk differently, and wear “causal” clothes that cost as much as they make in a month.

The idea that one “blends in” is a good thought, it in reality doesn't add up, it’s the same thought process that makes people resent being a tourist, when in fact by definition they are. Res ipsa loquitur
IslandInfedel is offline  
Old 15-08-2020, 18:27   #35
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 25,667
Images: 2
pirate Re: Self Defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by nwdiver View Post
I’m of the walking stick tribe also, and I know how to use it, mine unscrews in the middle and becomes two batons....
In Pakistan a hockey sticks the way to go.. very adaptable.
__________________


Born To Be Wild.. Double Click on the picture.
boatman61 is offline  
Old 15-08-2020, 18:34   #36
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Kemah, TX
Boat: Lagoon 42
Posts: 55
Re: Self Defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandInfedel View Post
Fair enough, but I think based on the numbers, if you wear a mask these days, I don’t get how you don’t also carry a sidearm
because I don't live in fear. and I certainly don't need to compensate for anything lacking in my life.
introverted is offline  
Old 15-08-2020, 18:40   #37
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Western Arkansas
Boat: catalina 22 & 27
Posts: 181
Re: Self Defense

Your mind is your most powerful weapon.

Avoid dangerous areas and situations.
Be aware of your surroundings. (children are playing happily in the street is a good sign. Only attentive males,beware).
Only fight if you know you can win.

I have witnessed a knife fight. It was very bloody. Run from a knife fight.

Thx-Ace
__________________
Peace Sells, Who's Buying?
acem is offline  
Old 15-08-2020, 18:53   #38
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 25,667
Images: 2
pirate Re: Self Defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandInfedel View Post
For the country/yacht club I agree.

For the predators, no, it’s because you’re 5 shades lighter, 5” taller, talk differently, and wear “causal” clothes that cost as much as they make in a month.

The idea that one “blends in” is a good thought, it in reality doesn't add up, it’s the same thought process that makes people resent being a tourist, when in fact by definition they are. Res ipsa loquitur
Latin definitely marks one out as a tourist..
Most local people see me as just another working stiff (which I am), also Predators come in all colours.. like the white guy in Panama who would seek a position as crew with couples heading W to the S Pacific. he'd killed 3 couples and stashed their boats in Ecuador before he got caught trying it a fourth time.
__________________


Born To Be Wild.. Double Click on the picture.
boatman61 is offline  
Old 15-08-2020, 19:11   #39
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Depends on the month
Boat: 32’ Sloop
Posts: 266
Re: Self Defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Latin definitely marks one out as a tourist..
Most local people see me as just another working stiff (which I am), also Predators come in all colours.. like the white guy in Panama who would seek a position as crew with couples heading W to the S Pacific. he'd killed 3 couples and stashed their boats in Ecuador before he got caught trying it a fourth time.
Well played sir
IslandInfedel is offline  
Old 15-08-2020, 19:15   #40
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Austin, TX
Boat: Venture 25 / Tayana 37
Posts: 229
Re: Self Defense

Oh boy...this might make some people angry with me. But unless you have my experience, I really don't care.

So let's start at the top - with the OP's question. But before we can do that...I do this for a living. I teach self defense, martial arts, (previously) combat pistol shooting, and have experience working with SWAT, police, military, and personal protection agencies in Europe. I own a martial arts school and have been training since 1980 and teaching since 1992. In my youth I was a competitive amateur kickboxer and full contact kumite fighter in my 20's. I worked security and as a doorman in night clubs in Dc and Baltimore for several years. I could go on for a few more paragraphs. I am an expert.

The OP's question can be answered thus:

If you do not work in a violent field or career, situational awareness and environmental awareness will keep you safe 95% of your life. NINETY-FIVE PERCENT. Go sail, travel, and enjoy the world with your family. Be smart, avoid dangerous areas - I've never gone to a country or city or countryside that didn't have a dangerous area - but every time that area was not "hidden" or "hushed up" for the visiting guy (me). Most of the time I was actively warned and helped to avoid any problem areas. Trust your gut and always err on the side of caution - there's so much of this world to see that does not require going into dangerous situations. Be smart and enjoy your life.

In that 5% you are faced with danger, unless you train SERIOUSLY and CONSISTENTLY, the proper response is flight. Most of the time, this will be as simple as walking away quickly without verbal interaction - just leave.

Debates about what style of self defense, what weapons to use or fight against, or what "training" you need is missing the point. The point is AVOIDANCE. The ONLY way to be safe from violence is to avoid it.

I teach this in every seminar to every group of humans I instruct - whether it's the Las Vegas SWAT, my students in my school, or the teen girls self defense seminar - There are only three things I can promise you about fighting - It will be fast, scary, and painful. Win or lose. That's the only guarantee.

Avoiding a fight by situational and environmental awareness is winning. All the rest is about the remaining 5%.

I'll refrain from comments about guns on boats etc as that was not the OP's question. EDIT: I left off that guns on excursions is a horrifically bad idea in a foreign country. As a guy who traveled to other countries to TEACH and TRAIN with firearms, it was a nightmare of legal issues. Just don't. Every country is different, but I still believe that carrying a gun outside of your home port is asking for trouble and not necessary if you train and practice situational and environmental awareness.
tradrockrat is offline  
Old 15-08-2020, 19:26   #41
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Depends on the month
Boat: 32’ Sloop
Posts: 266
Re: Self Defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by tradrockrat View Post
Oh boy...this might make some people angry with me. But unless you have my experience, I really don't care.

So let's start at the top - with the OP's question. But before we can do that...I do this for a living. I teach self defense, martial arts, (previously) combat pistol shooting, and have experience working with SWAT, police, military, and personal protection agencies in Europe. I own a martial arts school and have been training since 1980 and teaching since 1992. In my youth I was a competitive amateur kickboxer and full contact kumite fighter in my 20's. I worked security and as a doorman in night clubs in Dc and Baltimore for several years. I could go on for a few more paragraphs. I am an expert.

The OP's question can be answered thus:

If you do not work in a violent field or career, situational awareness and environmental awareness will keep you safe 95% of your life. NINETY-FIVE PERCENT. Go sail, travel, and enjoy the world with your family. Be smart, avoid dangerous areas - I've never gone to a country or city or countryside that didn't have a dangerous area - but every time that area was not "hidden" or "hushed up" for the visiting guy (me). Most of the time I was actively warned and helped to avoid any problem areas. Trust your gut and always err on the side of caution - there's so much of this world to see that does not require going into dangerous situations. Be smart and enjoy your life.

In that 5% you are faced with danger, unless you train SERIOUSLY and CONSISTENTLY, the proper response is flight. Most of the time, this will be as simple as walking away quickly without verbal interaction - just leave.

Debates about what style of self defense, what weapons to use or fight against, or what "training" you need is missing the point. The point is AVOIDANCE. The ONLY way to be safe from violence is to avoid it.

I teach this in every seminar to every group of humans I instruct - whether it's the Las Vegas SWAT, my students in my school, or the teen girls self defense seminar - There are only three things I can promise you about fighting - It will be fast, scary, and painful. Win or lose. That's the only guarantee.

Avoiding a fight by situational and environmental awareness is winning. All the rest is about the remaining 5%.

I'll refrain from comments about guns on boats etc as that was not the OP's question. EDIT: I left off that guns on excursions is a horrifically bad idea in a foreign country. As a guy who traveled to other countries to TEACH and TRAIN with firearms, it was a nightmare of legal issues. Just don't. Every country is different, but I still believe that carrying a gun outside of your home port is asking for trouble and not necessary if you train and practice situational and environmental awareness.

For anyone serious, I’d looks at the analysis of events, with the age of everything being on video between phones to ring door bells to CCTV we have tons of it, and sadly tons of examples of how these events turn out, lots with good breaks downs here

https://m.youtube.com/c/ActiveSelfProtection/

One example from the above where “run away” ain’t going to work, you are the prize




Not too many could one just “run away”
IslandInfedel is offline  
Old 15-08-2020, 19:59   #42
Registered User
 
nwdiver's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Boat: C&C Landfall 38
Posts: 731
Re: Self Defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
In Pakistan a hockey sticks the way to go.. very adaptable.
Ha ha ha, a hockey stick means something very different here in Canada, I understand what your talking about...
nwdiver is offline  
Old 15-08-2020, 20:00   #43
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Austin, TX
Boat: Venture 25 / Tayana 37
Posts: 229
Re: Self Defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandInfedel View Post
For anyone serious, I’d looks at the analysis of events, with the age of everything being on video between phones to ring door bells to CCTV we have tons of it, and sadly tons of examples of how these events turn out, lots with good breaks downs here

https://m.youtube.com/c/ActiveSelfProtection/

Not too many could one just “run away”
ah yes...the youtube experts over at ASP...I'm well aware of them.

I've got nothing against John or Neil (the men who run that business) personally, and in fact, their firearms training and theory are a lot like what I used to teach. Not a big fan of the rest of it.

But the VAST majority of those events and videos are situational - if you work in a liquor store in Brazil, this might very well happen to you. If you're a cop in Ohio - you might see this. If you're a visitor sailing into the country and exploring, you have less than a 5% chance of anything like this ever happening to you.

And yes - many videos he posts are from all over the world - including America, but this is fear mongering - trust me. I'm a professional and I've studied the statistics.

I've seen, studied and analysed real world encounters of knife, gun, and stick attacks and trained with men who did time in South American countries (as members of US agencies) where many of those videos come from. In other words - I've done the same thing ASP is doing on youtube and come to different after action conclusions with the input of actual law enforcement authorities helping me.

You know the number one violent crime against a tourist in Ecuador? Phone theft. Brazil? Phone theft. It's labeled a violent crime because the authorities get PISSED when they lose tourist dollars.

But let's get to the nittygritty - suppose this does happen to you - suppose you are in the 5% zone and a violent attack happens. If you don't train, and train often, you're gonna die if you stand there and fight back. Period.


Believe me - I advocate training - I literally teach it for a living. Why would I say don't learn? But don't for a second think this is something you're GOING to see in your lifetime. If you train, learn and follow the rules of situational and environmental awareness - something ASP advocates in almost every video they make - you are almost certainly NOT ever going to find yourself in a situation like those videos. That's my point. The best and most effective self defense tactics are avoidance.

But yeah - everyone should train.
tradrockrat is offline  
Old 15-08-2020, 20:09   #44
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Depends on the month
Boat: 32’ Sloop
Posts: 266
Re: Self Defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by tradrockrat View Post
ah yes...the youtube experts over at ASP...I'm well aware of them.

I've got nothing against John or Neil (the men who run that business) personally, and in fact, their firearms training and theory are a lot like what I used to teach. Not a big fan of the rest of it.

But the VAST majority of those events and videos are situational - if you work in a liquor store in Brazil, this might very well happen to you. If you're a cop in Ohio - you might see this. If you're a visitor sailing into the country and exploring, you have less than a 5% chance of anything like this ever happening to you.

And yes - many videos he posts are from all over the world - including America, but this is fear mongering - trust me. I'm a professional and I've studied the statistics.

I've seen, studied and analysed real world encounters of knife, gun, and stick attacks and trained with men who did time in South American countries (as members of US agencies) where many of those videos come from. In other words - I've done the same thing ASP is doing on youtube and come to different after action conclusions with the input of actual law enforcement authorities helping me.

You know the number one violent crime against a tourist in Ecuador? Phone theft. Brazil? Phone theft. It's labeled a violent crime because the authorities get PISSED when they lose tourist dollars.

But let's get to the nittygritty - suppose this does happen to you - suppose you are in the 5% zone and a violent attack happens. If you don't train, and train often, you're gonna die if you stand there and fight back. Period.


Believe me - I advocate training - I literally teach it for a living. Why would I say don't learn? But don't for a second think this is something you're GOING to see in your lifetime. If you train, learn and follow the rules of situational and environmental awareness - something ASP advocates in almost every video they make - you are almost certainly NOT ever going to find yourself in a situation like those videos. That's my point. The best and most effective self defense tactics are avoidance.

But yeah - everyone should train.
Beauty of his videos are they are NOT re-enactments, maybe you don’t agree with what he says, but these are cold cut examples.

Having been there and done that, I’d sooner get it over with at the side of the road than after who knows what after being taken, or in a home invasion.

We train for CPR, we train for foul weather, we train for fires, yeah you should train for dealing with less evolved humans too. Much is a mind set as well, how do you view others, I could go on but I’m sure you understand this, it’s just different methods of thinking
IslandInfedel is offline  
Old 15-08-2020, 20:58   #45
Registered User
 
Viking Sailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: San Francisco Bay
Boat: Fantasia 35
Posts: 1,226
Re: Self Defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandInfedel View Post
Good stuff!

So you also don’t wear masks?

So aside from running the morality/morbidity numbers between getting Covid vs getting attacked/robbed, the thing is unlike a junky face cloth, my sidearm is a hand crafted piece I enjoy, I have a one off leather holster and I really enjoy target shooting as well as the craftsmanship and performance that went into my rig and my training, just like I wear a watch both out of respect for time, as well as the craftsmanship and beauty of the timepiece.

So again, with all these people being scared of a virus, that if you get it is but a 0.3% death rate, to wear ugly cloths over ones face like a 21st century burka, destroy their economies, but say that I must be paranoid to carry my sidearm?

It’s a interesting comparison

Sorry Sir, but the death rate for Covid-19 in the U.S. is not 0.3%. It is 167 thousand deaths divided by 5 million cases which equals 3%. And, as there are over 300 million people in the U.S. that is potentially 9 million people dead. If wearing a mask could save just one life -- I'm game!


BTW, be smart where you go, be courteous, and you won't need to carry.
Viking Sailor is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
self defense - are you trained sailorboy1 General Sailing Forum 124 03-11-2013 10:20
A change of heart regarding self-defense Lodesman Health, Safety & Related Gear 108 09-05-2009 04:18

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:54.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.