Security in foreign ports

[Jdege]

Originally Posted by Scorpius99eh

Don't have the fanciest looking boat in the port. Too much gleam just attracts trouble. In our three years in Latin America we had one ashore incident (necklace torn from wife's neck by cyclist in Costa Rica) but nothing re the boat. We did, however, have a bicycle stolen in San Diego and a major break-in in Tampa.

I had a friend, when I was in college, who had a very expensive bicycle. Custom built frame, Campi grupo, the works. He'd spent more on it that I'd spent on any car I'd owned.

He never locked it, just left it leaning outside whatever building he happened to have class in, on a campus where theft of expensive bicycles was rampant.

How did he manage to not get it stolen? Easy.

He'd given it a Rust-Oleum paint job and applied Schwinn decals. If you looked closely, you could see the Campagnolo markings embossed into the $500 shifters, but nobody looks that closely.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Bigjim

I know you are trying to be funny or ironic, but you are actually very UNLiKELY to be "mowed" down anywhere in Chicago. Most of the shootings actually happen in two areas of the city and mostly by hand gun. Few people are shot outside these two areas. Unfortunately, the victims are frequently innocent bystanders: people sitting on their porches, people walking down the sidewalk, even people sitting or sleeping inside their houses. Bullets know no boundaries but ballistics.

This puts the lie to the comments: "be prepared", "do your research" or "know where you are". How can you " be prepared for a stray bullet? Never visit Chicago? Millions visit every year and nothing happens to them. You would miss a great city and amazing culture.

I'm actually more cautious of places like Texas where more average citizens carry guns. Several people were shot in Texas simply ringing someone's doorbell after being lost or having a car accident.

I am not trying to be funny or sarcastic and I think you're looking for an argument. I didn't write that one is likely to be mowed down in Chicago. And yes, I have been in Chicago as well as in almost every other place in the US. And a Glock *is* a handgun. That's a whole list of things you say or assume that are not true.

I agree that Chicago is a nice place, love the music. But those fun places are not safer than the same kind of places in other cities. I compared Chicago to Amsterdam and said that I see *no* difference, while many think Amsterdam is a very safe place and Chicago isn't. About the opposite of what you suggest I wrote.

Texas? Texas is one of the safest places I've been in the US. Very nice, warm, friendly and welcoming people. You seem to think that carrying a gun makes people bad. That is the same as stating a sheepdog is bad because his teeth look like those of the wolf, while the sheepdog is in fact trying to protect while the wolf is trying to kill

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Cruise in areas where you don't need to worry about this stuff. Stay in marinas with security. We're in anchorages five months per year without a concern about theft, it's the least of our worries. We go ashore nearly every day, and don't feel the need to even lock up our dinghy. If someone needs to move our dinghy, so be it... we don't get upset. We always ask first if it's ok to leave it.

That makes a lot of sense... until you realize that this deletes the whole Caribbean from the list of cruising grounds, as well as Africa, Brazil, Philippines, Indonesia, the Med part from Morocco to Greece (that's more than half of it) and so on. At some point every cruiser starts to make compromises.

I believe you were in the Caribe, right?

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

We go ashore nearly every day, and don't feel the need to even lock up our dinghy. If someone needs to move our dinghy, so be it... we don't get upset. We always ask first if it's ok to leave it.

Lock it or lose it.

Lock your boat when you go ashore.
Leave a bright cockpit light on.

Lock the dinghy to the dock.

Where? EVERYWHERE!

[WilliErnszt]

2 dogs keeps Most of the People at a "safe" distance! ☺

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Lock it or lose it.

Lock your boat when you go ashore.
Leave a bright cockpit light on.

Lock the dinghy to the dock.

Where? EVERYWHERE!

We've never needed to lock our dinghy in Spain, Italy, Montenegro or Croatia, the islands and coastal resorts in each of these counties are very safe.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

That makes a lot of sense... until you realize that this deletes the whole Caribbean from the list of cruising grounds, as well as Africa, Brazil, Philippines, Indonesia, the Med part from Morocco to Greece (that's more than half of it) and so on. At some point every cruiser starts to make compromises.

I believe you were in the Caribe, right?

We've been to the Caribbean many times... yuck compared to the Med, no interest in cruising there any more. Mexico... we were there just last week... double yuck and expensive compared to Italy and Croatia. Can't understand the attraction, especially with it being more expensive.

[CaptsWife]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Cruise in areas where you don't need to worry about this stuff. Stay in marinas with security. We're in anchorages five months per year without a concern about theft, it's the least of our worries. We go ashore nearly every day, and don't feel the need to even lock up our dinghy. If someone needs to move our dinghy, so be it... we don't get upset. We always ask first if it's ok to leave it.

Where are you that you feel this safe and have had no troubles? Just curious.

[Paul L]

Dinghy theft depends a lot on when you were there and your luck level. In most places it is just a crime of opportunity - in other places it is a career.
From Noonsite:
Croatia

Dinghy Thefts
In common with many areas in Europe and elsewhere, dinghy theft can be a problem. Ensure that it is well secured to the boat with chain and lock, lifted out of the water at night and that also the outboard is as difficult to remove as possible.
The latest report (2012) is of a spate of such thefts at Uvala Kanalic, near Pula.
Last updated May 2016.

[AiniA]

Originally Posted by Bigjim

I find your understanding of history quite funny. All cultures have pillaged in their history. It is not peculiar to English or Anglo-Saxon. And if you understood the root of the words you used you would be aware of that. The Angles and the Saxons were "invaders" from outside of England. They eventually colonized parts of England. But this is the history of Europe. Every country was invaded and ravaged at various points of history. Certain types of crime are low in Europe but higher in the US, while others are higher in Europe and lower in the US. If you get away from the big cities in all cases, there is much less crimes of all types.

As for colonies, the English colonies were the one that were mostly treated fairly by their invaders. Spain brought slaves to the New World and worked them to death. The Belgium Congo was the most ravaged of all places. British colonies often were left with roads, bridges, schools, and legal systems. But it is foolish to say that French or German colonies are better today. Do you really want to compare Haiti and the Dominican Republican to Bermuda and other Caribbean islands?

I think thievery and crime is more a condition of poverty. Rich peopple steal on Wall st. Poor people take your outboard.

But as a cruiser, I'd rather not come back from shopping or a tour to find my tender missing or the motor stolen, or worse, the boat ransacked. I'm not afraid, it will not make me stay home. But I've had things stolen in the US and seen people pick-pocketed in Europe. It doesn't make me not want to travel. But I'd rather not be the one who has to file the police report.

Originally Posted by Bigjim

...

As for colonies, the English colonies were the one that were mostly treated fairly by their invaders. Spain brought slaves to the New World and worked them to death. The Belgium Congo was the most ravaged of all places. British colonies often were left with roads, bridges, schools, and legal systems. But it is foolish to say that French or German colonies are better today. Do you really want to compare Haiti and the Dominican Republican to Bermuda and other Caribbean islands?
...

Really!?! The British, French, and Portuguese also brought many slave to the New World with the largest number by far going to Brazil. Haiti rebelled against France in 1803 or thereabouts and became independent so it is not really fair to blame France for most of the Haitian mess since self-government has and more than two centuries to get it right. Not sure what German colonies you might be talking about. They got into colonialism late and lost their colonies after WW I. Namibia seemed nice from our limited exposure there. The DR is not a bad place really. If you want to compare former British colonies and French ones in the Caribbean you have places like St Lucia, Dominica, St Vincent on one hand and Guadeloupe, Martinique, and the French part of St Martin on the other. There is absolutely no comparison in terms of standard of living (and safety). The British dumped their colonies when they got to be too much trouble. The French made their's part of France. Bermuda, not in the Caribbean, is not a former colony, it still is one and has an advanced standard of living because of the developed of offshore banking, insurance, and corporate offices (tax avoidance). The Dutch former and current colonies - other part of St Martin, Saba, ABCs - seem quite successful. In fact, you could make the case for the British ones being the least successful.

[Mike OReilly]

Well, I can add that I rarely lock our boat, don’t haul in the dingy, and have never had any issues. I cruise the Great Lakes (although I’m heading to salt water this year — I hope). So Ken is absolutely correct; there are places where you don’t have to be constantly on your guard.

Of course crime can happen anywhere, and there are definitely worse or better places. But I have never lock up the boat while at anchor. I do lock my boat when we go into a marina and we’re going to be away for hours. I don’t lock my dingy, but I do remove any easily grabbed items, and I often lock the outboard to the dingy.

Probably helps to have an old boat, and a portabote as a dingy .

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

We've never needed to lock our dinghy in Spain, Italy, Montenegro or Croatia, the islands and coastal resorts in each of these counties are very safe.

Has everyone who has cruised in Spain, Italy, Montenegro and Croatia during the time period you were there not needed to lock their dinghies?

[royalstar]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Dinghy theft depends a lot on when you were there and your luck level. In most places it is just a crime of opportunity - in other places it is a career.

From Noonsite:

Dinghy Thefts
In common with many areas in Europe and elsewhere, dinghy theft can be a problem. Ensure that it is well secured to the boat with chain and lock, lifted out of the water at night and that also the outboard is as difficult to remove as possible.
The latest report (2012) is of a spate of such thefts at Uvala Kanalic, near Pula.
Last updated May 2016.


Croatia

That dinghy thefts in 2012 have nothing to do with Croats, they caught two Brits and two Italians stealing dinghies, I was in the area at the time and remember that very well, even police came on board asking is it anything missing from our boat.
Later we heard that they found couple of stolen dinghies in Italians camper van at local camp site.

[darylat8750]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Exactly. Not only are they very aware of their surroundings, they also have a solid plan in case the predator makes an attempt.

On a boat is should work the same: you need plans for what to do when you have a fire, when your boat sinks and for when the wolf presents itself. On commercial ships they are required to do drills for all of these scenarios; we as yachts are better off when we would do that as well.

We had several security incidents and the plan we executed worked 100% in every case. I can't describe how good it feels when you find an intruder on your swimming platform and that, while you engage him verbally at first, that from the corner of your eyes you see your wife triggering the plan and going inside to get the "backup". You then know this backup is coming and just need to create enough time. It allows you to maintain your firm stance that the attack stops right there. We have witnessed boats without a plan where everybody started screaming and running around, some even jumping overboard and hurting themselves and ven that scared the intruder enough to flee. A simple firm command would have had the same effect without any injuries.

I write this because it is often said that if thinking of these plans, let alone doing a drill, would ruin the fun of sailing for people. But those same people do have insurance, they have fire extinguishers, abandon-ship bags etc. but can't deal with the possibility of facing violence. That would be the weak point that bites them because it makes many even abandon the "keeping aware of surroundings" phase. We have friends sailing though Venezuelan waters, getting boarded by pirates who beat them up and took everything from them, then STILL sailing on and within 30 minutes being boarded by a second group of pirates who are now really pissed off because there's nothing to get. How hard is it to realize you are heading in the wrong direction...

Be aware. Have a plan.

[darylat8750]

Also have the rattiest looking dinghy and outboard at the dinghy dock. My 15hp Yamaha starts first pull but looks like a piece of junk. My wife suggested I paint it when I painted the boat. No...... Big patches on the dink also. When I leave the boat I let some air out of it so it sags a little. No one wants a dink with air leaks...