Sail vs Power for year long cruising...for newbies

[modifier0]

thank you Westwinds, Tayana42, Sea Dreaming, Roverhi, Sepeteus, Cheechako, LLCoolDave, Reed1v and Pizzazz for your replies

Westwinds - thank you so much for all the information on what to look for when checking out boats, i will defiantly get that book, i really appericate all the information you provided

Roverhi - i really enjoyed reading your response, i think you have a good understand of me and what im looking for.

Tayana42 - that was a amazing example of 2 types of mindsets Power = trying to get somewhere, Sail = the journey to somewhere. If i was to generalize myself in to those 2 groups i would defiantly fall in to the latter.

to be honest after reading everyones thoughts about this im starting to lean more towards sailing, if the only draw back is i cant stand straight up in side, well i could just go outside and have a millions miles of room. also as someone pointed out when your sailing your sailing, but with a power boat you dont really do anything. i dont get bored easily however, i could see this getting very boring fast if i have nothing to do other then starting the engine, kicking up the throttle a bit and check my nav equipment every once and a while. i like the idea of being more involved with the process.

ive been looking at pearson, morgan, hunter, islander and catalina
on yacht world i found alot within my price range of those ....though most of the islanders i saw were on the west cost, but i really like them for some reason. should i be wary of any of these makers? ive read that catalina is/ was very popular (allot of them on yachtworld) also a lot of hunters.

are the boats 40ft and under from these makers good? which ones should i cautious of?

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

I prefer sail: more stable at sea, safer since you could either motor or sail and just more things to learn/do. You will get bored on a motorboat quickly. Powerboats are meant to take you to places while sailboats are all about the journey.

Note the previous advice to stay with diesel. Have a look at the Hunter 31 which I have: 6'3" headroom, lots of space, can be had for less than $20K. I would take mine anywhere.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Quite correct, at least in our experience. Sailing is a totally different dimension than motoring. Motoring after several hours gets real tiresome.

[jtsailjt]

Of course most of us on this site are very biased towards sail but I'm assuming you're taking that into account. Even so, I'd like to add my 2 cents worth in favor of someone in your situation getting a sailboat.

First, if you're concerned about your inexperience, it's just as easy, or easier to "drive" a sailboat than a motorboat so you can at first just motor when sailing conditions aren't optimum until you build a little experience. I'm pretty confident that after a pretty short amount of time, days or weeks, you'll be sailing much more than motoring whenever the wind allows.

Your height does eliminate some boats but there are many out there with adequate head height for you.

Motoring does get boring fast, especially in a motorboat with a bigger engine, much more fuel consumption, and more vibration.

This past weekend my wife and I had an experience that sort of drives it all home. We were out cruising in our sailboat and some good friends mentioned that they planned to take their 40' motorboat from Blue Hill out to Mt Desert Rock to watch the whales (they put on quite a show for us with one humpback even dramatically breaching less than 100' from our friends boat) and since we were anchored near MDI we made plans for them to stop by and pick us up. Winds were very light for most of the day and swells were small as well, an absolutely beautiful day for boating and spotting whales! My friends boat has a 350 hp Yanmar as compared to our 88hp Yanmar. Vibration, sound, and fuel consumption were all much more than anything I've ever experienced aboard any sailboat. During the course of the day, we burned approximately 4 times as much fuel as we would have in our boat and while underway we endured that constant roar that starts out seeming OK but is fatiguing and impossible to get away from except up on the flybridge. Despite the nearly optimum conditions, 75 degrees with winds under 10 knots all day, my friends wife felt seasick so went below and spent much of the day curled up in their v berth. The motion of a sailboat is MUCH easier on those who have any tendency towards seasickness. Neither my wife or myself felt seasick but the boat seemed to sort of lurch and roll constantly compared to the much smoother and steady motion we are accustomed to. Another thing I should mention is that we were cruising on the motorboat at about 10 knots whereas on our sailboat we cruise at 7.5 knots. We enjoyed visiting our friends boat and I understand why it's appropriate for the way they use it on weekends with their busy work schedules, but if we'd taken our sailboat and left theirs anchored, we would have saved at least $100 in fuel, nobody would have felt seasick, and though it would have taken a little (not really that much) longer to get out by "the rock" where the whales (humpbacks and finbacks) hang out, we could have been talking at normal volume levels al day and could have even cooked and eaten dinner comfortably while enroute back to the boat we left behind instead of waiting until our return. This was just one day aboard a motorboat but I think it sort of shows the contrast between the two types and why, for someone like you, a sailboat is the way to go. As it happened, there was hardly any significant wind that day but on a windy day the benefits of a sailboat and drawbacks of a motorboat become even more clear.

[westwinds]

Here are some sailboats with 6' 4" headroom and more. Pasted from a spreadsheet so maybe hard to read

Boat Architect Weight Length Beam Keel Head room Bal last Cost bw Phone # Also has trailer, b in "b w" column is from bluewaterboats.org, not all boats are listed
Allied Mistress 39 17,000 39 10.5 5.9 6' 4" 6700 Fin with spade rudder, no line drawing of floor plan. Sailboats built by Allied Boat Company Inc. (USA) by year on Sailboatdata.com
Allied Princess 36 14,400 36 11 4.5 6' 4" 5000 Long keel, 4 berths including lounge
Aloha 34 13600 28.67 11.17 5.5 6' 7" 4700
Aphrodite 36 (German?) Carl Beyer 15873 36 5.6 6'5" 6393
Baba 30 12,500 30 10.25 4.8 6' 4" 5000 Long iron keel, Taiwan
Bristol Channel Cutter 28 14000 28 10' 1" 4' 10" 6' 6" 4600 ab
C&C 38 MK II, Ken Hellewell book 14,700 37.58 12 6.1 6' 5" 6800 * V Berth, two sette berths & double in back.The double v berth forward is over 7 feet in the middle and the settees are 6 feet, quarter berth is 7 feet.
C&C 36 fin I'm a little over 6'4". The 1980 C&C 36 I owned in the past had enough headroom I could stand upright, bare footed, at the galley sink. As I moved forward the headroom dropped by about an 1" near the mast.
Catalina 36, fin, spade rudder Frank Butler 15000 36 11.92 5.3 6' 5" 6000
Columbia 34 Mk1 Charlie Morgan 34 7' to 6' 4" Cannot find much on the Columbia Mk1, The Mk1 is much different from Mk2. Columbia 34 is also different from Columbia 34 Mk1
Columbia 35, Fin with rudder on skeg William Tripp Jr. 11350 35.67 10 6'2'-6'9" 4050
Coranado 36 36 6' 4" Is this the Coronado 35??
CSY 33, also called CYGNET 33, long fin, skeg Peter Schmitt 15200 33 11 5 6' 6" 4600 *
CSY 37, long fin, skeg Peter Schmitt 22000 37 12 5.3 6' 6" 8500 *
Eastward Ho 31 Walter J. McInnis 11000 31 9.82 6' 6" 4500
Endeavour 37, rudder on skeg, ketch, sloop and cutter, some with bowsprit Dennis Robbins 20000 37 11.58 4.5 6' 6" 8000 *
Freedom 36 14,370 36 12.5 6 6' 4" 6500 Fin with spade rudder, lead keel
Grampian 34-1, Ketch, Fin with rudder on skeg Charles Angle 12000 34 10 5 7' to 6' 6" 5170
Gulf 32 16,000 32 10 5.2 6' 6" 6500
Hans Christian 33 19,000 33.75 11.67 5.5 ? long keel, Taiwan, two double beds
Hughes 36 13,000 35.25 10.08 5.5 6' 4" 4700 Fin with Skeg. Queen bed in rear, V berth
Hunter 34 11820 34.42 11.58 5.5 6' 4" 5000 Fin with spade rudder
Island Packet 29 10,900 29 10.83 4.3 6' 4" 4800 long keel, some with center board and shallow draft, double bed, V berth, sette berth?
Island Packet 31 11,000 31 11.6 4 6' 4" 4500 Long keel
Islander 37 fin Bruce King 36.5 10.83 5.4 6' 6" 5000 Not bluewater, coastal cruiser, could not find much
Islander Freeport 36, skeg rudder Robert Perry 17000 36 12 5' 3" 6' 7" 6300 Coastal cruiser, most Islanders are not bluewater,
Leslie Skinner 38, ketch, no data in sailboatdata.com Bruce Roberts 6' 6"
LM 32 (Denmark) Bent Juul Andersen 13,230 32 10.67 4.9 6' 7" 4840 long keel
Mariner 31 11,500 30.67 9.75 3.7 6' 4" 5000 FG with wood deck and cabin
Mariner 32 12,400 32 9.75 3.7 6' 4" 5000 Same mold as 31, clipper bow
Martzcraft 35, center cockpit ketch, Australia Bruce Roberts 13120 35 11 5' 6" 6' 5" 5000
Mirage 33 Robert Perry 9300 33 11.67 5 6' 5" 3500 Fin with spade rudder
Mirage 35 Robert Perry 10,000 35 11.67 5 6' 5"
Morgan 32 11,000 32 11.5 5.3 6' 6" 4000
Morgan 38 16,000 38 11 8.3 6' 6" 7500
Najad 371, Fin with rudder on skeg Peter Norland 19,841 37.73 11.8 5.7 6' 7" 8175
Ontario 32 9800 32 11 4.5 6' 4" 3977 C&C 3 berths + sette
Pearson 31 9400 31 10.5 5.5 6' 5"
Pearson Vanguard 32 Rhodes 10,300 32 9.25 4.5 6' 4" 4250 V Berth, two sette berths
Rawson 30 12,000 30 9 5 6' 4" 5000 concrete keel, V Berth, one of which is long, sette berth, table berth for two?
Roberts 35, rear cockpit, cutter, same as Martzcraft Bruce Roberts 13120 35 11 5' 6" 6' 5" 5000
Scanmar 35 10582 35 10.83 5.8 6' 6" 4167 center cockpit
Seidelmann 34 11000 34 11.82 5.4 6' 7" 5000 JUNK
Siedelmann 37 13,500 37 12 5.9 6' 7" 6000 JUNK
Slocum 37 37 6' 5" nothing found on sailboatdata.com
Sunbeam 37 15,432 37 11.32 5.9 6' 8" 6393
Tartan 37-1 aka Blackwatch 37 Ted Hood 14600 10.5 5.1 6' 5" 4200 Headroom estimated from drawing
Tartan 37-2, 37c, fin: ketch & sloop Sparkman & Stephens 15500 37 11.75 5.8 7500 Cannot find anything on headroom, or even a side drawing
Valiant 37 similar to 39 Valliant but 37 no bowsprit Robert Perry 17000 11.5 6' 5" 6700 skeg rudder
Valiant 39 Robert Perry 18500 39.3 11.5 6' 5" 7000 skeg rudder
Valiant 40 Robert Perry 22,500 39' 11" 12' 4" 6' 6' 4" 7700 Hull 120-249 bad blisters 1976-1981, after 1984 & hull 267 no problem,250-266 less blisters
Vancouver 32 14,500 32 10.58 4.5 6' 6" 6000
Watkins 33 William Tripp Jr. 10800 32..6 10.17 4 6' 6" 5500 *

[JPA Cate]

Hi, modifier0, welcome to CF.

With your height, size, and the size of your pocketbook I think berth length and width are possibly more important than headroom in the saloon. The majority of your time below is usually spent sitting, standing for moving about, cooking, and cleaning.

You asked sail vs. power, and I sort of wondered if you were attracted to sailing even though without much recent experience. I think, like some of the others, that sailing is about the immersion in the physical environment that one gets, and part of that is the absence of engine noise, at least, for me.

Generally speaking, lighter hulls are more easily driven than heavier ones, and smaller engines consume less fuel. For our 46 footer, with a 44 ft waterline, Jim calculates our fuel consumption at a conservative 2.5 litres per hour, about 2/3 gal per hour, @ 6 knots, with a clean bottom. We could motor along at 6.5 or more, but the fuel consumption increases hugely: at 8 knots, we burn 4 liters an hour, with a 43 hp Nanni (Kubota) engine. We're content to mosey.

Whether you can do it on $1,000 per month depends a lot on how reliable the boat that you buy is, boat parts for repairs are expensive if you can't find non-marine sources, but the fuel will be a huge knock on that income if you got a power boat.....

Now, some people get seasick, and not everybody likes cruising, anyhow, but I think you could have a great time with an older sailboat with good sails, rig, and engine. Just be sure you can sleep comfortably on it.

Ann

[Adelie]

Perceptive response Ann. 1+


A house is but a boat so poorly built and so firmly run aground you would never try to refloat it.

[alctel]

I have a hunter 36 (the old cherubini one) and it's got around 6'4" headroom

[ranger42c]

Originally Posted by modifier0

So my questions are:
With my projected plan above, would a power/sailboat be possible on said fixed income?
What type of power/sailboat would be good for this undertaking?
What type of powerboat/ engine do you have and what's your nmpg? And fuel tank size & cost to fill?

Choice between the two is a difficult question for others to answer. If you like the act/art/science of sailing, that leads you one way. If you just want to be able to move the boat, that can lead you the opposite direction.

It's easy to "enjoy the trip" no matter which you choose. How much work you do while "enjoying" depends on which route you take.

For your questions about powerboats: yes, it could work. Fuel costs for many of the various styles/sizes can fit within your budget. That works two ways: buy an efficient system in the first place, and slowing down improves fuel economy no matter whether diesel or gas. (Diesel comes with higher up-front cost, gas can spread that out over time. Gas comes with some additional safety issues, easily managed.)

You can see our avatar; 42' sportfish, with twin 450-hp diesels. This style of boat is not normally considered to be all that efficient, compared to "trawlers" (a marketing term, for many brands) and other "long range cruisers" (see Hatteras). We range from approx. 2.5 NMPG at around 7 kts to .75 NMPG at 22 kts. Tankage is 520 gallons, and we rarely fill except at end of year for winterization. Cost is whatever the price of diesel is, but I can say so far this season, we've only taken on 120 gallons and our tanks for around 3/4 full.

We more often putter along at slow speeds because we like that better, interspersed with some short bursts of planing speed to deal with the turbos and aftercoolers, "rinse" the hull and underwater hardware a bit more thoroughly... and then sometimes to actually get somewhere faster than unusual for some reason (sometimes weather).

Thanks for your service!

-Chris

[hsi88]

and from what i understand trailing a sailboat is harder then a powerboat, from what ive read most people have to get a company to professional tow it, while with a powerboat i would be able to tow it myself (i have a few diesel trucks.. 7.3 Excursion, 6.2 2500 RAM) is this accurate?

Interesting you mention trailering. I assume you mean trailering on a regular basis. 30+ foot boats, power or sail do not lend themselves to trailering. I own a MacGregor 26X trailer sailor for those trips where I want to get to a new destination quickly (2 days to Florida), do some sailing and trailer back. But it lacks headroom in all but a small section of the boat. So TBH, I don't sail it much. I have instead a Catalina 27 (and just bought a 30) that I much prefer because of the extra space and headroom. They are also much more comfortable cruisers.

For the money, its hard to beat Catalinas. Nice layouts, easy to sail, lots of room for their size. Cheap to buy and cheap to own. Perhaps not great transatlantic cruisers, but more than adequate for coastal and island cruising as is the Mac 26X.

$1000 a month is tough. This is why I keep my day job, even though it eats a lot of time. That amount does not leave much left for the Tiki bar. Other threads have almost everyone spending at least $2K per month. Unless tied to a mooring and eating from cans, $1K a month is going to be tough to do I think. But I wish you well. I am drawn to the water and hope you too can share the joys of boating, whatever type you may choose.

[cjsfsm]

My short reply to this message would be to advise that one of the greater benefits of sailing this journey is the stability and seaworthiness of a well designed and ballasted sailing vessel. Heavy weather off shore would more easily swamp and sink any motor vessel the size you can afford. However the sailing vessel's inherent characteristics would allow survival of the vessel during a severe knockdown or even a roll provided the captain took proper precautions under the circumstances. For me this ability would be the deal breaker for most motor vessels.

[Volkeno]

After having several sailboats, I have powerboat now, although it has a sailboat motor.
I have an Albin 25 which has decent headroom and the 28hp motor uses 1/4 gph at 6knots and 1/2gph at 8-9knots. Being a 70's boat it has a very cramped head if you are larger, but most folks don't spend a lot of time in there.

My previous sailboat was a Gulf 29 which is a pilothouse sailboat and the head room in the pilothouse is 6'5" but then the head room in the head and forward cabin is about 5'5", but I did have a tank commander hatch in the head so I could stand up if the hatch was open. The Gulf 29 is a fin keel boat and very maneuverable, but the larger Gulf 32 is where I would look if I was going to live aboard. It is a full keel and sails very well, but also has a 75hp motor for powering. It has a lot of space and head room.

If you have unlimited time and limited budget I would lean towards sailing over motoring. You wouldn't be able to afford going over hull speed anyways and the keel and sails make for a much more comfortable ride that a powerboat can't give without serious weight or stabilization.

That said, for me in my mostly protected seas of Washington and British Columbia the little Albin does pretty well and they usually only cost about $15k more or less. Since Albin also makes sailboats it's also pretty seaworthy although it can get rolly since it doesn't have a weighted keel. There is a version with a mast that is meant to motorsail, but can get to 4knots under sail alone.
I mostly only have weekends so I left sails behind until I retire. I have found that all the time I spent tacking to get to a place is used to arrive earlier or go farther. I have a 20 gallon fuel tank that can allegedly take me 400 miles. I tend to stop at fuel docks after running out of fuel many times in my sailboats and having to sail into marinas. This boat has a fuel gauge and a dipstick to measure what's in the tank.

[Ibetitsthisway]

I bought a 9000usd albin 25 this May in sweden. Refitted With an 2010 beta marine 50 engine.
Did some cosmetics to her.. Brought her to the med an travled 700nm in 3 weeks.

Absolutely gorgeous Tough seaworthy little old boat!
Handling Design is phenominal.

Towing a large dingi we burned 3.4liters per hour on 6.5kn on Overall Average. Top speed is 23kmh With this engine in calm waters.