Richardson Bay liveaboards, heads up!

[Liam Wald]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Oh and social handout programs are the lions share of the Federal Budget, and those folks getting the hand outs will soon find out that money doesn't grow on trees, it grows on printing presses.

That is not even close to true.
The lion's share of the fed budget is spent on being the worlds policeman.
Social programs have been all but eliminated from the budget.
That is why we have mentally ill people living on the streets and under bridges.
That is why we have children going to school hungry.
That is why we have senior citizens half-dosing their meds and eating cat food.
That is why we have a higher percentage of our population in prison than any country in the world.

[SV THIRD DAY]

When People's Myths meet Reality...some can't handle it very well.
While Defense spending accounts for 21% of the Federal Budget that's small compared to the Social Spending. To those counting on the continued Social Spending, I feel sorry for them because when the music stops, there will be no chairs for them to sit down on.

US Federal Budget FY17 Estimated Spending Breakdown - Pie Chart

So now that we have a few facts on the table, lets address the points raised by Liam.

1.Social programs have been all but eliminated from the budget.
[Ok we can see just how false that is from the data above. California is a welfare handout State folks. Now you may like and want that, but you can not deny the facts or you play the part of a fool.]

2. That is why we have mentally ill people living on the streets and under bridges.
[Because the elected representatives of the people fund Union Pensions over mental health programs]]

3. That is why we have children going to school hungry.
[[No that is because we have deadbeat parents that have two new cars, $200 cable TV packages but let the public feed their kids.]]

4. That is why we have senior citizens half-dosing their meds and eating cat food.
[[Liberal crazy myth...no need to even respond because Obamacare solved the health care issue (right?) and then with the number of food banks in this Country no one goes hungry unless they chose to, I know, I volunteer and donate to the food bank]]

5. That is why we have a higher percentage of our population in prison than any country in the world.
[Because we have these things called Laws and enforce them...who's fault is it for breaking the law, oh I get it...the robber and rapist..ha ha ha...sorry go sell that tripe to a low information voter. I do agree that our drug laws are nuts and we do have a Industrial Prison Complex...but how oversees the Prisons and gets campaign cash from them...ahem...the same Government you want to put your trust in to take care of you and others..ha ha ha...funny that.]]

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by ravinracin

SC You totally missed my point about low income live aboards fixing up their boats. In this states capitol, it is very common for different groups, organizations to assist low income property owners fix up their properties. It happens quite often as reported on our local news. Paint, yard work, roofs, plumbing, etc. You name it and it gets done. Also the electricity and gas people will come in and weather proof your house, the water company will come in and install low volume everything. All of this if you meet low income requirements. Maybe this should be the approach used for low income live aboards. Help them, make their boats safer and also look a little better. Everyone wins. It has been stated on this thread many times that we are not going to get rid of them.


ps I have my boat in the delta, I am not a live aboard. Can you tell me the name of an inexpensive DIY yard in the delta. New paint this summer.

Gee I don't pay utilities and have not for 10 years now, so the utility folks would not want to help me reduce utility costs. I don't have a yard, so no help there either.

As to haul out yards in the Delta. Sorry, I've not hauled out since 2009. I find that even the delta haul out locations are still to spendy. I'm have to wait 2 more years when the SS checks start arriving before hauling. Such is life.

I do work from my boat, though I don't have a permit for that either. I don't have a physical address or a car, so hard to file the papers. I work in 5 different counties over the year, it's sort of hard to file for a business license, when your mobile. But then only a small portion of the business is in state. Most of my clients are elsewhere.

Funny thing is, I don't make enough to even pay California taxes or Fed taxes other then SS. The problems I have.....

By the way, I don't claim a home business deduction as I don't have a separate area on the boat to conduct business. Even if I could, the ~5 SF, I use for business does not amount to a handful of beans. I can't deduct utilities, as I have none. I suspect Rich is in the same boat.... pun intended.

On the plus side, I enjoy life far more then when I was making $90k a year and stressed out. Sometimes, Simple is good.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

When People's Myths meet Reality...some can't handle it very well.
While Defense spending accounts for 21% of the Federal Budget that's small compared to the Social Spending. To those counting on the continued Social Spending, I feel sorry for them because when the music stops, there will be no chairs for them to sit down on.

I think SS will be around long enough for me to survive on. Sure It may be a reduced rate, but as someone living on~$600 a month, even a reduced rate will be a windfall. It's oddly why it was created in the first place. As so many seniors back in the earily 1900's had little savings.

It's sad, but If I had the money, I paid into the SS fund I would have savings to live on. So it goes... If it does go away. Well, I'll have to fish more and eat bulrush and cattail stew. Hate cleaning fish btw.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

When People's Myths meet Reality...some can't handle it very well.
While Defense spending accounts for 21% of the Federal Budget that's small compared to the Social Spending. To those counting on the continued Social Spending, I feel sorry for them because when the music stops, there will be no chairs for them to sit down on.

US Federal Budget FY17 Estimated Spending Breakdown - Pie Chart

So now that we have a few facts on the table, lets address the points raised by Liam.

1.Social programs have been all but eliminated from the budget.
[Ok we can see just how false that is from the data above. California is a welfare handout State folks. Now you may like and want that, but you can not deny the facts or you play the part of a fool.]

2. That is why we have mentally ill people living on the streets and under bridges.
[Because the elected representatives of the people fund Union Pensions over mental health programs]]

3. That is why we have children going to school hungry.
[[No that is because we have deadbeat parents that have two new cars, $200 cable TV packages but let the public feed their kids.]]

4. That is why we have senior citizens half-dosing their meds and eating cat food.
[[Liberal crazy myth...no need to even respond because Obamacare solved the health care issue (right?) and then with the number of food banks in this Country no one goes hungry unless they chose to, I know, I volunteer and donate to the food bank]]

5. That is why we have a higher percentage of our population in prison than any country in the world.
[Because we have these things called Laws and enforce them...who's fault is it for breaking the law, oh I get it...the robber and rapist..ha ha ha...sorry go sell that tripe to a low information voter. I do agree that our drug laws are nuts and we do have a Industrial Prison Complex...but how oversees the Prisons and gets campaign cash from them...ahem...the same Government you want to put your trust in to take care of you and others..ha ha ha...funny that.]]

Rich I just wanted to add one bit that isn't actually listed on the pie chart. The veterans admin budget for VA pensions as well as all other VA optar comes from the DOD budget.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Rich I just wanted to add one bit that isn't actually listed on the pie chart. The veterans admin budget for VA pensions as well as all other VA optar comes from the DOD budget.

Good point, and it is absolutely disgraceful how we treat our Veterans.

But let that be a lesson to those thinking the Government will take care of their Housing, Healthcare, retirement...etc. If the Government (and voters) would dare treat our honored veterans like trash and literally let them die in the waiting room of the Government run VA, then how do you think the Government would treat you, just a Joe/Joane blow citizen that didn't put their life on the line for our Country? Was anyone fired or held accountable in the recent VA Scandals? Answer...the bureaucrats in power don't give a rats ass about you. All they care about is their overly generous vacation, sick day, family day, stress day, paid time off package and their big fat guaranteed pensions when the citizens paying for their benefits don't get such perks.

Is this an anti-Government rant?
No...it's just telling it the way it really is and not sugar coating it.
Maybe I should have issued a "trigger warning" and maybe some folks now need a "safe space" to fix their feelings that were hurt by the truth.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Good point, and it is absolutely disgraceful how we treat our Veterans.

But let that be a lesson to those thinking the Government will take care of their Housing, Healthcare, retirement...etc. If the Government (and voters) would dare treat our honored veterans like trash and literally let them die in the waiting room of the Government run VA, then how do you think the Government would treat you, just a Joe/Joane blow citizen that didn't put their life on the line for our Country? Was anyone fired or held accountable in the recent VA Scandals? Answer...the bureaucrats in power don't give a rats ass about you. All they care about is their overly generous vacation, sick day, family day, stress day, paid time off package and their big fat guaranteed pensions when the citizens paying for their benefits don't get such perks.

Is this an anti-Government rant?
No...it's just telling it the way it really is and not sugar coating it.
Maybe I should have issued a "trigger warning" and maybe some folks now need a "safe space" to fix their feelings that were hurt by the truth.

Rich while I agree with what you said that was not what I was attempting to point out. Once you remove the VA disability compensation and operating budgets from the DOD budget estimates it really pushes the welfare numbers twoards the top of the charts especially when you add the welfare related healthcare costs to the actual welfare numbers.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Rich while I agree with what you said that was not what I was attempting to point out. Once you remove the VA disability compensation and operating budgets from the DOD budget estimates it really pushes the welfare numbers twoards the top of the charts especially when you add the welfare related healthcare costs to the actual welfare numbers.

Ah, The VA budget is NOT part of the DOD budget. It's a separate line item/department of the federal government and not under the DOD. Nor would I classify VA benefits as welfare. I agree with Rich that the country treats veterans very poorly.

Not sure what that has to do with liveaboards, except there are lots of veterans living aboard hither and yon. Really discussions about welfare should be elsewhere, as liveaboards generally as a rule don't get welfare and are not included or qualified for section 8 housing.

[newhaul]

Sc I meant the military spending budget not specificly the DOD my bad there also I don't classify anything VA with welfare we vets earned everything that the VA has for us. I should have made that very c.ear before. Yes there are many many vets that are liveaboards.

[Schooner Chandlery]

SChic -- Being at anchor, you've got a low cost lifestyle--and you come and go so you're not seemingly on anyone's list of squatters. That's all good. Glad your life is good.

I'm from Indiana and though I haven't lived there in over 30 years, if I wanted a cheap existence (while working via the internet as you seem to do), and if I didn't feel I could properly maintain and sail my boat for some reason or another, I'd be back there or in one of the many other lower cost states in the union. A friend of mine just inherited her Auntie's house appraised at $8.5K. Located in a small town there. I thought it was a low appraisal for the estate. The friend was complaining the appraisal was too high because she finally sold the house for $7.5K 2 years after inheriting it. She had it rented out to someone for $200/mo in the interim. The friend lives in a house in Indianapolis that's worth about $35K. She recently sold the house her parents had when she was in high school -- I loved that house, $25K was what it sold for. None of these are unsafe neighborhoods either. The story is similar in some parts of Florida, Texas, gulf states. Someone I know who lives in Houston now just sold his mom's house in Corpus Christi for $35K. Nice place that was, too.

If an American wants to stay in the USA and doesn't really sail (face it, too many of the people living on boats in RB don't really seem to want to be boaters and don't know how to sail or even use the engine on their boat if it has an engine, they're just squatting because that's a way to have free or very low cost shelter) it is very much an option that they CAN relocate to some good places and have a high quality of life but seems to be those options are largely outside the Bay area. Why someone who isn't working here would possibly want to be here if they can't afford it??? makes no sense whatsoever. The world is big--there are many good places to live besides the Bay area for a non-sailing, low-income/no-income person.

The VA exists nationwide. Vets who want to make sure they have access to the VA need not be in RB or high cost parts of CA at all. My father in law used the VA in MN and AZ, my dad used the VA in WV, IN, and PA.

There ARE some great deals on low cost housing for seniors or people with disabilities right here in the Bay area -- but long, long waiting lists. My husband's aunt lives in Mountain View in a HUD assisted apt complex. Nice place, entirely. Safe and not the sort of place someone would say is run-down. She pays based on her income--which isn't much since she's on SS and that's based on her working essentially minimum wage jobs over the years. Her rent adjusts every year but it's about $150/month. In Mountain View. With free utilities. Free internet. Requirements? be a senior citizen, get on the waiting lists for some of these apartments. That's it. Any low income senior who is in the Bay area, wishes to stay, and isn't trying to get on those lists? I don't understand it. Those HUD assist programs exist expressly to help and I hope eligible seniors are going for it.

The OP was writing this thread originally to complain about changes in RB. Those changes--bringing in moorings for many people and enforcing/restricting anchoring--seem to be to the benefit of boaters including low income boaters who are presently at anchor in RB. It is true that if someone is squatting on a hunk of junk it may not be possible for that particular someone to get one of the moorings or have the flexibility to come and go from anchor in RB. Those folks are going to need other options. Yes. But other options do exist. The OP is on a port-supplied mooring. He's living the life that the RB authority seems to be trying provide for other boaters in RB. This thread has gone far and wide away from the OP's original posts.

[newhaul]

Schooner you seem to have gone off the deep end about vets I am one and I live on rather seaworthy sailboat. My father is 92 this year and lives on his sailboat . We are just two of many vets that liveaboard
We have great access to the Seattle VA hospital and the american lake facility and BTW there are us vets living on boats all over the world. Heck there is even a VA facility in Thailand and further away even all the way to Australian. Why so you think negatively on vets living the way they want. Where they want.

[Schooner Chandlery]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Schooner you seem to have gone off the deep end about vets I am one and I live on rather seaworthy sailboat. My father is 92 this year and lives on his sailboat . We are just two of many vets that liveaboard
We have great access to the Seattle VA hospital and the american lake facility and BTW there are us vets living on boats all over the world. Heck there is even a VA facility in Thailand and further away even all the way to Australian. Why so you think negatively on vets living the way they want. Where they want.

No you miss my point. And that is VA services exist all over for vets, not just near RB. My family is full of vets incl disabled vets and I have many friends who are vets who choose to sail and live aboard. I'm not a vet but my husband is--we are familiar with the services.

As such I do take issue when someone insists they cannot obtain VA services anywhere but a single location. It's not the truth, as you note. Vets in San Diego swear they can't get services any where else. As do vets in SF Bay or Pittsburg or Indianapolis or Orlando or just about anywhere there's a vet who doesn't want to move. Common story.

There are many many more cost effective places to live, on or off boat, than the SF Bay and, in my opinion, if one is in dire straits, RB is not the prudent place to be. Much of my prior post was not directed to vets but simply anyone who wants to live a decent life at very low cost. I was waxing on about how that is possible in so many other places than RB and so much more appropriate if the person squatting on a derelict boat isn't a boater in the first place and they are just on the boat for shelter rather than sailing.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[newhaul]

Schooner I'm sorry I misinterpreted your intent my bad on that one . Thank your hubby for his service for me. Here is my feeling on liveaboard vessels not in a marina should have to prove they can get underway under their own power at least once every two months a minimum of 5 nm would weed out the real derelicts. Regardless of where they are.

[sailorchic34]

The reason the fine folks in RB don't leave is they have no money to leave. I know this too as I have very little money for fuel. $20-$30 will not get a bus ticket very far. With house costs, it's not just rent. There is electric, water, trash at the very least. So that Cheap $200 place back east will turn into a $400 place.

The anchor outs for the most part don't have that.. I could not afford a $400 bill for rent and utilities. Let alone a bus ticket across country.

I still say having lived aboard for 10 years now, that a small boat is far cheaper then even an apartment elsewhere.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

The reason the fine folks in RB don't leave is they have no money to leave. I know this too as I have very little money for fuel. $20-$30 will not get a bus ticket very far. With house costs, it's not just rent. There is electric, water, trash at the very least. So that Cheap $200 place back east will turn into a $400 place.

The anchor outs for the most part don't have that.. I could not afford a $400 bill for rent and utilities. Let alone a bus ticket across country.

I still say having lived aboard for 10 years now, that a small boat is far cheaper then even an apartment elsewhere.

$20 bucks worth of fuel will move just about any boat at least 5 nm and moving a vessel under its own power ( at least here in Washington ) goes a long way towards keeping johnny law off your back.