Richardson Bay liveaboards, heads up!

[Liam Wald]

Originally Posted by Capt Phil

I lived in the Marin area about 40 years ago and the collection of boats in RB was eclectic, interesting and kinda fun to see. That is until some property owners in Tiburon decided that they looked 'trashy' and began their campaign to rid their view of anything afloat not tied to a dock. These rich pricks want to see nothing but mud flats and cat tails when they look out their windows. Bunch of elite jerks, IMO... Phil

Two sides to everything...
Living aboard your boat as a sailor who sails with a boat that is well kept and sea worthy is one thing...
Being a homeless person squatting on a broken rotting down hulk that is covered with trash and dumping sewage into the bay is quite another.
There are boats moored in Richardson Bay that have not moved (even to a pumpout station) for years.
While 40 years ago the boats found moored there may have been charming and eclectic, those same boats 40 years latter are little more than floating dumpsters frequently inhabited by the dregs of society who have no sense of community and little regard for the environment.

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by Liam Wald

Two sides to everything...
Living aboard your boat as a sailor who sails with a boat that is well kept and sea worthy is one thing...
Being a homeless person squatting on a broken rotting down hulk that is covered with trash and dumping sewage into the bay is quite another.

And, if it's a homeless person on a well found, seaworthy, nice looking boat?

There are boats moored in Richardson Bay that have not moved (even to a pumpout station) for years.

And you know for sure the boat is occupied?

While 40 years ago the boats found moored there may have been charming and eclectic, those same boats 40 years latter are little more than floating dumpsters frequently inhabited by the dregs of society who have no sense of community and little regard for the environment.

My, my, my.

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

One mans garbage is another mans home. I love the lines of boat #3 truly a lovely looking vessel. A bit O paint and elbow grease and it would be welcome anywhere. Not what I would call a derelict at all.

Funny. I was thinking the same thing.

[Capt Phil]

Originally Posted by Liam Wald

Two sides to everything...
Living aboard your boat as a sailor who sails with a boat that is well kept and sea worthy is one thing...
Being a homeless person squatting on a broken rotting down hulk that is covered with trash and dumping sewage into the bay is quite another.
There are boats moored in Richardson Bay that have not moved (even to a pumpout station) for years.
While 40 years ago the boats found moored there may have been charming and eclectic, those same boats 40 years latter are little more than floating dumpsters frequently inhabited by the dregs of society who have no sense of community and little regard for the environment.

As one of the dregs of society and proud of it, Liam... I resemble that remark! Phil

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Wrong

Funny. I was thinking the same thing.

I anchored near it some weeks back. Very nice lines and pretty clean. Really not a derelict at all. Went by your boat Wrong, but once again you were off somewhere (or sleeping )

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

I anchored near it some weeks back. Very nice lines and pretty clean. Really not a derelict at all. Went by your boat Wrong, but once again you were off somewhere (or sleeping )

I was no doubt off contemplating, or actively formulating my next step in keeping the RBRA off balance.

A favorite passtime of mine.

[Uncle Buck]

Wrong - clearly the issue is not with " well found, seaworthy and nice looking boats " - it's with the rest of them - abandoned or occupied.

And, as we know, how one cares for the things he/she owns (especially when his/her life is reliant upon it) is often representative of most other aspects of his/her life. It doesn't take money to maintain order and cleanliness, and to ensure heaps of " stuff " piled on your boat don't end up end in the Bay with the next blow. Sadly, it's evident that some of the anchor-outs suffer from much greater personal problems than the state of their boats.

There are decent boats out there with good people on them, but there are also plenty that fall outside of this category. If I were an anchor-out and wished things to continue (likely one day I might be!), I'd be working to support a policy which stipulates current registration, occupation, operation, general seaworthiness, adherence to sanitation requirements etc etc. Otherwise, things well eventually come to a head and everyone will be lumped into the same category and neither the decent boats nor the junkers will be welcome anymore. It happens - the same situation in Victoria resulted in a rezoning of the anchorage to a " public recreation area ", which now prohibits overnight anchoring entirely.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by EvanStolze

......... - the same situation in Victoria resulted in a rezoning of the anchorage to a " public recreation area ", which now prohibits overnight anchoring entirely.

Aha, politicians must have been involved with that doublespeak.

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by EvanStolze

Wrong - clearly the issue is not with " well found, seaworthy and nice looking boats " - it's with the rest of them - abandoned or occupied.

Ya left out the most important words. "homeless person"

And, as we know, how one cares for the things he/she owns (especially when his/her life is reliant upon it) is often representative of most other aspects of his/her life. It doesn't take money to maintain order and cleanliness, and to ensure heaps of " stuff " piled on your boat don't end up end in the Bay with the next blow.

Funny. The RBRA mantra is filled with myths and exaggerations, including the one about heaps of "stuff" ending up in the Bay with the next blow. Far as I know, nobody has actually wittnessed such an event. As far as "orderliness and cleanliness" goes, it's an entirely personal thing meaning different things to different folks. I doubt anyone would really care what you think about their level of "order and cleanliness".

Sadly, it's evident that some of the anchor-outs suffer from much greater personal problems than the state of their boats.

Your judgement is based upon what?

There are decent boats out there with good people on them, but there are also plenty that fall outside of this category.

And who is to judge?

If I were an anchor-out and wished things to continue (likely one day I might be!), I'd be working to support a policy which stipulates current registration, occupation, operation, general seaworthiness, adherence to sanitation requirements etc etc. Otherwise, things well eventually come to a head and everyone will be lumped into the same category and neither the decent boats nor the junkers will be welcome anymore. It happens - the same situation in Victoria resulted in a rezoning of the anchorage to a " public recreation area ", which now prohibits overnight anchoring entirely.

Well, I ain't an anchor out, but I'm heavy lifting in an effort to get sailors and the RBRA moving in tandem toward a fair outcome in Richardson Bay for those who favor a private mooring and those of us who prefer to anchor. Presently, so numerous are the (unauthorized) private moorings there is no room left for those of us who want to anchor...

[Schooner Chandlery]

Originally Posted by Wrong

Well, I ain't an anchor out, but I'm heavy lifting in an effort to get sailors and the RBRA moving in tandem toward a fair outcome in Richardson Bay for those who favor a private mooring and those of us who prefer to anchor. Presently, so numerous are the (unauthorized) private moorings there is no room left for those of us who want to anchor...

From your previous comments, I figure you not in a marina there. From this, I figure you're on a mooring. Either marina or mooring, that's sort of a "I've got mine!" situation to be in. The existing moorings that exist in the area were not put down with permits but just more-or-less grandfathered in (this story I've heard from the RBRA and from people who have been on moorings there for 20 or more years). It's really hard to be objective about any of the situation if you're there on a mooring, in a marina, or at anchor because you'll have your own interests to look out for.

As someone who firmly supports the Public Trust Doctrine and who likes to anchor in different places for a few days to a few weeks at a time, I dislike the existing random moorings and the existing glut of non-moving anchored boats that are essentially moored there throughout Richardson Bay. I don't really care who has what on their boat or what they're doing with the rest of their lives--my own primary interest is whether the anchorage is available for mariners--the people who come and go (like me)--that is sufficiently large and protected that it is a reliable anchorage for all mariners.

Whenever you have boat dwellers permanently parked in fixed locations w/o moving the (real and perceived) problems that are seen in Richardson Bay arise. If the cost is high, the problems still exist but they're slightly different than if the cost is low or free.

Are you on a mooring? is it an old fishing boat mooring, a self-set mooring by another boater, one you did yourself? or are you in a marina?

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by Schooner Chandlery

From your previous comments, I figure you not in a marina there. From this, I figure you're on a mooring. Either marina or mooring, that's sort of a "I've got mine!" situation to be in.

It's a Port mooring I pay for every month. In years past there wasn't the crush of unauthorized moorings we have today. In 2008 before leaving on my last near global circumnavigation there were some pretty good spots for anchoring on the Sausalito side, so I did what I prefer doing and anchored. Moving regularly between Sausalito, Clipper Cove, Jack London Square and back was possible. Now, due to the numerous unauthorized moorings, anchoring restrictions in Clipper Cove and guards at J.L.S. who appear to tell you - "you can only stay for four hours" - before your lines are even cleated, relegates all of this into the past. Although many of the unauthorized private moorings use multiple anchor and below the water line swivels, they do not employ a float. So, do you assume the boat is anchored? This, and distrust of what's deployed to hold the boats in Richardson Bay in place causes me to come down on the side of extreme caution. Which is why I'm on a mooring.

The existing moorings that exist in the area were not put down with permits but just more-or-less grandfathered in (this story I've heard from the RBRA and from people who have been on moorings there for 20 or more years).

If you are talking about moorings in the Sausalito harbor between Schoonmaker and Clipper Marina, and a handfull in Richardson Bay, they may be grandfathered. But, the vast majority are relatively recent and are purely and simply illegal.

It's really hard to be objective about any of the situation if you're there on a mooring, in a marina, or at anchor because you'll have your own interests to look out for.

I fail to get your drift here...

As someone who firmly supports the Public Trust Doctrine and who likes to anchor in different places for a few days to a few weeks at a time, I dislike the existing random moorings and the existing glut of non-moving anchored boats that are essentially moored there throughout Richardson Bay. I don't really care who has what on their boat or what they're doing with the rest of their lives--my own primary interest is whether the anchorage is available for mariners--the people who come and go (like me)--that is sufficiently large and protected that it is a reliable anchorage for all mariners.

Spot on in agreement with you.

Whenever you have boat dwellers permanently parked in fixed locations w/o moving the (real and perceived) problems that are seen in Richardson Bay arise. If the cost is high, the problems still exist but they're slightly different than if the cost is low or free.

Are you on a mooring? is it an old fishing boat mooring, a self-set mooring by another boater, one you did yourself? or are you in a marina?

[Schooner Chandlery]

So you're on one of the five (5) moorings managed by RBRA or are there others? I was of the impression that the moorings managed by the port (?port? RBRA?) are for temporary use only. No?

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by Schooner Chandlery

So you're on one of the five (5) moorings managed by RBRA or are there others? I was of the impression that the moorings managed by the port (?port? RBRA?) are for temporary use only. No?

The rule is 72 hours without a permit. How long after you have the permit you're allowed to remain is at the harbor master's discretion. As long as you pay, you stay? I think if there were people forming a que, you'd probably be asked to move on.

Port=RBRA

[Schooner Chandlery]

Originally Posted by Wrong

The rule is 72 hours without a permit. How long after you have the permit you're allowed to remain is at the harbor master's discretion. As long as you pay, you stay? I think if there were people forming a que, you'd probably be asked to move on.

Port=RBRA

That's interesting. There ARE people who call and ask about those moorings and are turned away. I'll have to call on monday and chat with them a bit to understand where the wait-list is and why there isn't one advertised for visiting boaters. I initially assumed they were keeping people at a minimum number of days (e.g. the 72 hrs) to give everyone opportunity to use those limited moorings but did hear otherwise when visiting RB last summer. Our own vessel is too large for the moorings, but when I chatted with the RBRA fellow who manages them I got the impression that once people got onto the moorings those people stick like glue. We rarely have opportunity to use moorings because of our size so I was only half listening to what he said. I didn't realize you were one of the few who were lucky enough to be on those few moorings. How long have you been on one of those moorings for example? And what is the cost to you of being on the mooring?

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by Schooner Chandlery

That's interesting. There ARE people who call and ask about those moorings and are turned away. I'll have to call on monday and chat with them a bit to understand where the wait-list is and why there isn't one advertised for visiting boaters. I initially assumed they were keeping people at a minimum number of days (e.g. the 72 hrs) to give everyone opportunity to use those limited moorings but did hear otherwise when visiting RB last summer. Our own vessel is too large for the moorings, but when I chatted with the RBRA fellow who manages them I got the impression that once people got onto the moorings those people stick like glue. We rarely have opportunity to use moorings because of our size so I was only half listening to what he said. I didn't realize you were one of the few who were lucky enough to be on those few moorings. How long have you been on one of those moorings for example? And what is the cost to you of being on the mooring?

Ironically I am not a fan of moorings. Primarily because they benefit the "Smiths & Joneses" at the expense of everyone else. Whether there's one, 7 or 100 moorings, once taken it may be like in San Diego where folks possess the same mooring for upwards of 30 years while others wait on years long waiting lists. So, while I can offer my sympathy, do you really believe I'd vacate my mooring for you? Well, sure, provided a bushel or two of the unauthorized private moorings were removed in order to provide space to anchor. But, at this time my choice is driven by the reality anchoring is not a prudent alternative.