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Old 01-10-2018, 08:42   #46
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Re: Review of 2 Years of Cruising Costs

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
Well you would need to ask a more specific question. I didnít manually do the math, I let Excel do it.
The last column on the right for "percentage of change" doesn't look correct.

Percentage of Change:
=sum(<NewValue> - <OldValue>) / <OldValue>
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File Type: pdf Corrected Expenses.pdf (364.9 KB, 36 views)
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Old 01-10-2018, 08:48   #47
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Re: Review of 2 Years of Cruising Costs

Thanks for the specifics of cruising costs and not the typical 'don't ask' how much a boat costs(stinkpotters response, mainly). I do think as has been alluded to, that you'd need to exclude personal expenses from the equation. If you need a tooth pulled on your boat, you'd need to yanked in 90210 also.



I wonder how some u-tube cruisers claim a family of 4 spend 1500/mo usd albeit not in the US?
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Old 01-10-2018, 09:37   #48
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Re: Review of 2 Years of Cruising Costs

So here is my computation, which contradicts my $2-to-$4 per pound hypothesis:

I deducted from your totals the following items: Food, soda, clothing, alcohol, sundries; Dining out; Entertainment; a wild guess of $800 for "phone" in Communication; Medical; Transportation; and Gifts. I take the remainder to be the incremental costs of owning and operating the boat, that is, the costs that would go away of you sold the boat and moved ashore. (Obviously, you would incur new costs ashore, for housing.) The remainders were 19,099 in Year 1 and 12,825 in Year 2. Am I correct that these costs relate to a Hunter 410? If so, its displacement (as discovered via Google) is 20,200 pounds. So the incremental boat costs are $0.95 and $0.63 per pound. Not what I expected.

I believe displacement (along with age of vessel and level of upkeep) is a principal factor in operating and ownership costs. Builders have told me displacement is the main determinant of construction cost (subject to choice of "finish", such as teak vs. fiberglass deck).


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Old 01-10-2018, 09:39   #49
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Re: Review of 2 Years of Cruising Costs

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One of the purposes of posting the monthly expenses is so people can see actual dollars spent. It isn't a contest or any type of "rules' as far as where the money goes, everyone is different. It's just how I spent MY money and others can use as a guide for their plans. There's no reason to get into an argument over a category as it makes me want to go out for a drink and messes up my numbers.
Hey sailorboy1. Thanks for sharing. Do you have a thread about your sailboat from purchase to now? Interested to see your story especially during the purchase / getting started phase. Thanks!
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Old 01-10-2018, 11:10   #50
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Re: Review of 2 Years of Cruising Costs

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Hey sailorboy1. Thanks for sharing. Do you have a thread about your sailboat from purchase to now? Interested to see your story especially during the purchase / getting started phase. Thanks!
I used to have a “what the boats costs us to own and use” spreadsheet from before we started cruising. It actually cost more back then than now. I could look for it if people are interested.
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Old 01-10-2018, 11:13   #51
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Re: Review of 2 Years of Cruising Costs

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So here is my computation, which contradicts my $2-to-$4 per pound hypothesis:

I deducted from your totals the following items: Food, soda, clothing, alcohol, sundries; Dining out; Entertainment; a wild guess of $800 for "phone" in Communication; Medical; Transportation; and Gifts. I take the remainder to be the incremental costs of owning and operating the boat, that is, the costs that would go away of you sold the boat and moved ashore. (Obviously, you would incur new costs ashore, for housing.) The remainders were 19,099 in Year 1 and 12,825 in Year 2. Am I correct that these costs relate to a Hunter 410? If so, its displacement (as discovered via Google) is 20,200 pounds. So the incremental boat costs are $0.95 and $0.63 per pound. Not what I expected.

I believe displacement (along with age of vessel and level of upkeep) is a principal factor in operating and ownership costs. Builders have told me displacement is the main determinant of construction cost (subject to choice of "finish", such as teak vs. fiberglass deck).


I provided my real numbers. Iím not really interested in chasing some new version of it cost X as a % etc mystery based story.
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Old 01-10-2018, 12:56   #52
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Re: Review of 2 Years of Cruising Costs

[QUOTE=a64pilot;2725298]So you guys are saying of course that a new Island Packet the same size as my old one would need new sails and repowering and a new windlass, new electronics etc at the same time my old one would?/QUOTE]

If you were to actually put 10%? or whatever % you determine, into a seperate account for maintenance, then, when the big items like sails come around, you just may have the money in the account to cover them, or at least it wouldn't seem like so big a hit.
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Old 01-10-2018, 15:41   #53
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Re: Review of 2 Years of Cruising Costs

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If you were to actually put 10%? or whatever % you determine, into a seperate account for maintenance, then, when the big items like sails come around, you just may have the money in the account to cover them, or at least it wouldn't seem like so big a hit.
No one denies that. But the 10% thing is still a useless number for planning. It would make a lot more sense to look up the cost of things like sails and the number of years till you expect them to be needed and that amount away.

If I had put away 10% of the what I paid for my now 17 year old boat for the past 7 years I've owned it I would have $80,500 in the account.

I still have and are sailing on my OEM sails. If I get 2 more years out them and continue to put the 10% into the account, .............................. well in 2 more years I would just sell my boat for half what I paid and get a newer used boat.
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Old 01-10-2018, 16:11   #54
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Re: Review of 2 Years of Cruising Costs

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No one denies that. But the 10% thing is still a useless number for planning. It would make a lot more sense to look up the cost of things like sails and the number of years till you expect them to be needed and that amount away.
Of course you are correct. The 10% or whatever % I mentioned was not meant to be set in stone. If a person doesn't want to use a % that is fine as long as they are putting away a certain amount of cash on a regular basis, whether that be $200 a month or 2,000. or even $50.

Your information that you post is a great help to many people and I certainly appreciate it. I hope you keep it going.

Thanks
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Old 01-10-2018, 16:29   #55
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Re: Review of 2 Years of Cruising Costs

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No one denies that. But the 10% thing is still a useless number for planning. It would make a lot more sense to look up the cost of things like sails and the number of years till you expect them to be needed and that amount away.

If I had put away 10% of the what I paid for my now 17 year old boat for the past 7 years I've owned it I would have $80,500 in the account.

I still have and are sailing on my OEM sails. If I get 2 more years out them and continue to put the 10% into the account, .............................. well in 2 more years I would just sell my boat for half what I paid and get a newer used boat.
It might make more sense to add up the cost of deteriorating things and put money away for them, it really isn't very practical as a quick estimate of maintenance costs. Using a percent of cost is just a super easy, not very accurate way to estimate. The fact that it always shows that more expensive boats cost more to maintain seems to irk some people, but in a majority of cases it follows what happens with cruisers in real life.

I'm looking forward to seeing the specs on those new $80k sails your boats gonna be wearing😐
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Old 01-10-2018, 16:56   #56
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Re: Review of 2 Years of Cruising Costs

[QUOTE=Paul L;2733010

I'm looking forward to seeing the specs on those new $80k sails your boats gonna be wearing😐[/QUOTE]

I already know the specs. Itís new sails and $74k in the beer fund!
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Old 01-10-2018, 17:30   #57
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Re: Review of 2 Years of Cruising Costs

The reason the whole percent of purchase price doesnít work is it doesnít take into account the age or condition of the boat.
I have an old boat, but I have pretty much replaced everything except the mast, hull, engine and tanks.
Itís likely not to cost much to maintain for some number of years, then itís going to catch up as things age and just wear out, but initial cost should be similar to a new Boat.
A brand new 750,000 Cat is not going to cost $ 75,000 a year in maintenance. How could it? Same Cat a few years down the road will sell for much less cause its old and used, but it will cost more to maintain, not less.

An old worn, tired boat that was $20,000 is going to cost way more than 10% before it gets splashed, then much more after splashing.

Airplanes you can get close getting to cost of maintenance. TBO of an engine and prop are at a fixed time, and you can come very close to overhaul costs, divide those plus average annual inspection costs into number of hours flown and you can get close to an hourly cost to fly with fuel of course.
Boats you canít do that as all items are what is called on condition, few will replace an excellent running engine that isnít burning oil just cause itís at X hours.

Boats, cars, airplanes etc all start life with low maintenance overhead, then as they accumulate age, it increases, if your maintainin it always to a constant status, you can of course do as most do and let it go downhill with the idea of the next owner will refit it.
Cost of maintenance depends largely where on that cycle your boat lies.

You are not going to save maintenance costs by buying an old boat. That is what the 10% rule says, but itís wrong.
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Old 01-10-2018, 17:38   #58
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Re: Review of 2 Years of Cruising Costs

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......
You are not going to save maintenance costs by buying an old boat. That is what the 10% rule says, but itís wrong.
If that's what it says to you then it is a useless estimate. To me it says that in general expensive boats cost more to maintain than cheap boats.
Sail that newer 750k boat on a few year circumnavigation and you will spend a lot on it if you want it to maintain its value. Doesn't matter that it was practically new to start.
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Old 01-10-2018, 18:47   #59
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Review of 2 Years of Cruising Costs

10%. First, this number applies to a ship-shape vessel; not a project. Second, this figure is annually so subtract a bit for laid up periods. Third, a new $750k vessel very much will cost $75k annual operating cost: enter depreciation.

My fist semester of accounting was all about how to depreciate assets. This net loss of value is absolutely a ledger item of Ďexpensesí when it comes time to sell or leverage the asset.

Further, as any said asset ages it will eventually plateau in value around the 40-60% range of itís equivalent new modelís price; physical maintenance and preventive maintenance will just absorb more of applicable percentage.

Our family law firm found piston planes to be in the 12-15% range and our turbine model in the 17-20% (less than 15 passenger models, I have no idea about larger planes).
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Old 01-10-2018, 18:50   #60
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Review of 2 Years of Cruising Costs

Your counting depreciation as a maintenance cost?
I guess then assuming someone finances the purchase, that interest is also maintenance?
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