Questions about insurance

[UrbanPoodle]

Hello! My husband and I have been living full-time in an RV for nearly 4 years with legal residency in Reno, NV. I'm retired and my husband works online, so we're able to maintain our income and health insurace. We're currently under contract to purchase a documented 1981 Pearson 365 36 ft sloop, on which we plan to live for at least 8 months out of the year. We intend to spend the first one or two seasons on the east coast, going up and down from NC all the way down to the Bahamas. After that, who knows?

It didn't take long to discover that insuring the boat in FL is an expensive complicated PITA and in fact, many companies just won't do it because of the age and length of the boat. I'm currently looking at GA, SC and GA. So how do y'all handle this? What insurance companies are you using that will insure a 41 year old 36 ft sailboat? Did you register in your home state and, if you're landlocked (like NV) can you insure it there, too? How did you choose your location when it comes to where your boat will spend the majority of its time if you're not, in fact, staying in one place more than a couple months at a time?

TIA for your insight!

[Sailingwithgil]

Use your home address and do just do the Minimum liability coverage you can get maybe around $500,000 will work. Try that and see if that helps

[leecea]

I think our insurance cared more about where the boat lived (which is not in the same state as where we live). We're pretty much based in one place so can't help with the other questions.

[Jebtrois]

Also, pay attention to the taxes where you keep the boat for the majority of the time...
JEB

[John_Trusty]

Step 1 - Find a marine insurance broker to do the searching for you. They are largely paid by the insurance carrier, not (directly) by you so there's minimum risk. They can also help with what you need to tell the insurance carrier for the breaks. If you intend to be north of Hatteras during June 1 - Nov 1, for instance, the rates are much different due to hurricanes. Most insurance companies will not coach you to add an itinerary or say that on your app, they just price it in or deny you.

Step 2 - come up with a home port (easier said than done) as insurance companies just do not understand the concept of anchoring. They want a marina address. I don't know if they ever check that you have a contract with that marina, but they really want a land address.

[Montanan]

Liability only insurance will be much easier to obtain, particularly as to an old vessel. Ask if you can take the financial risk of loss of the vessel.

Indeed the insurance underwriter will desire specific information as to your intended usage and voyaging. If you intend to be a vagabond, tell them that. But also determine where the vessel will be stored when you are not using it. You indicated being aboard 8 months of the year, seemingly voyaging most of that time and not residing long in one location.

The insurance company will desire to have the vessel on the hard in a secure yard that is away from hurricane / storm damage, especially if you are going to be away.

Give the insurance company all of the details of your use as the policy will be issued based on specific factual representation. If the use is other than what you have represented [and warranted] you may find that the policy is cancelled not just in the future but from ab initio.

Obtaining hull value insurance for an old boat will be harder and definitely will be impacted if the vessel is to be in the hurricane zone, [south of Cape Hatteras] during the season. Named storm damage coverage typically comes with substantial deductibles, 10+%, if you can obtain such.

Wishing Happy New Year and Bon Voyages.

[Scubaseas]

Depends on if you want just liability insurance which most marinas will want 300K or more coverage for or if you also want to insure the boat itself against loss. If you want only liability the insurance is fairly easy to come by. At 41 years old and 36 feet you may indeed find insurance of any kind is hard to come by. Or a Marina that wants you.

Try boat insurance brokers who may be able to help you. You might want to look at Boat US (which you should consider joining just for the towing package) and or Geico. I use Anchor Marine Insurance in Seabrook TX with good results. Dave Homer is who you want to speak with. (281) 291-9414 He got good coverage on my 1985 Tayana V42.
I have a 1980 Pearson 323 that is insured with Geico.

A lot of insurance companies will want you north of NC or even GA during hurricane season. Insurance for areas like Chesapeake Bay or further North may be a bit cheaper.

Be aware you may need a survey with any insurer if you want anything more than liability.

[cr180]

We have a 42 year old sailboat that we’ve owned for 18 years that stays in the water in a marina year round in Florida when not cruising the Bahamas. It is insured through BoatUS/Geico, with whom we’ve had continuous coverage on a number of boats since the early 1980s. But think only a matter of time before Geico cancels due to age of the boat and being in Florida. Have shopped around for other insurance providers just in case and finding only company interested in an older boat in water year round in Florida is American Modern who I never heard of (and have no confidence in).

So think those of us with older boats in Florida will see some challenging times to obtain and retain insurance. May force us to a liability only policy.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by cr180

We have a 42 year old sailboat that we’ve owned for 18 years that stays in the water in a marina year round in Florida when not cruising the Bahamas. It is insured through BoatUS/Geico, with whom we’ve had continuous coverage on a number of boats since the early 1980s. But think only a matter of time before Geico cancels due to age of the boat and being in Florida. Have shopped around for other insurance providers just in case and finding only company interested in an older boat in water year round in Florida is American Modern who I never heard of (and have no confidence in).

So think those of us with older boats in Florida will see some challenging times to obtain and retain insurance. May force us to a liability only policy.

American Modern's ultimate parent is Munich Re, one of the 100 largest companies in the world in annual revenue. It is part of Munich Re's primary insurance operations in the United States.

American Modern has long been insuring specialty sector segments including watercraft, motorcycles, ATVs, snowmobiles, collector vehicles.

They are legitimate.

The subsidiary companies of American Modern Insurance Group are rated A+ (Superior) by A.M. Best and the group has been selected for 13 consecutive years as one of the Top 50 property and casualty insurance companies in the United States by the Ward Financial Group. It is part of Munich Re's US operations. American Modern has 9 primary property and casualty insurance subsidiaries.

Property and casualty subsidiaries include:

American Modern Home Insurance Company - The flagship company, used in nearly all states for all targeted lines of specialty business. Does business as American Modern Insurance Company in California.
American Family Home Insurance Company – Does business as AFH Insurance Company in California.
American Southern Home Insurance Company
American Modern Lloyds Insurance Company
American Modern Select Insurance Company
American Western Home Insurance Company - Primarily writes non-admitted commercial business.
American Modern Insurance Company of Florida, Inc. - Used only in Florida for some personal lines programs.
American Modern Surplus Lines Insurance Company - Used in many states for non-admitted business.
American Modern Property and Casualty Insurance Company

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americ...nsurance_Group

[cr180]

Originally Posted by Montanan

American Modern's ultimate parent is Munich Re, one of the 100 largest companies in the world in annual revenue. It is part of Munich Re's primary insurance operations in the United States.

American Modern has long been insuring specialty sector segments including watercraft, motorcycles, ATVs, snowmobiles, collector vehicles.

They are legitimate.

The subsidiary companies of American Modern Insurance Group are rated A+ (Superior) by A.M. Best and the group has been selected for 13 consecutive years as one of the Top 50 property and casualty insurance companies in the United States by the Ward Financial Group. It is part of Munich Re's US operations. American Modern has 9 primary property and casualty insurance subsidiaries.

Property and casualty subsidiaries include:

American Modern Home Insurance Company - The flagship company, used in nearly all states for all targeted lines of specialty business. Does business as American Modern Insurance Company in California.
American Family Home Insurance Company – Does business as AFH Insurance Company in California.
American Southern Home Insurance Company
American Modern Lloyds Insurance Company
American Modern Select Insurance Company
American Western Home Insurance Company - Primarily writes non-admitted commercial business.
American Modern Insurance Company of Florida, Inc. - Used only in Florida for some personal lines programs.
American Modern Surplus Lines Insurance Company - Used in many states for non-admitted business.
American Modern Property and Casualty Insurance Company

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americ...nsurance_Group

Thanks

[nightowle]

I also recommend going the route of a marine insurance broker. As a retired yacht broker, I highly recommend Peter Ricks at Novamar Yacht Insurance (a large international brokerage working with many A+ carriers). Peter is at the Seattle office but works throughout the US: (206) 350-5051.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by Jebtrois

Also, pay attention to the taxes where you keep the boat for the majority of the time...
JEB

Florida grandfathers boats over a certain age. Yours qualifies. If it has the original engine the annual water use stickers are CHEAP. Go on line and hunt for this option. Many offices are unaware.

Florida sales tax is unavoidable, I think 6%

Caribbean cruising, check out ANJO

Some homeowners providers can add your boat on.

For an older boat of that size hull insurance is arguably optional. Go for liability only.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by cr180

Thanks

I perceive that older boats could be one of their specialty sectors, similar to the collector vehicles. They orient towards providing coverage to things many other insurers avoid. Anyway, you should be comfortable with their expertise and financial capacity.

[Bill O]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

Florida grandfathers boats over a certain age. Yours qualifies. If it has the original engine the annual water use stickers are CHEAP. Go on line and hunt for this option. Many offices are unaware.

Florida sales tax is unavoidable, I think 6%

Caribbean cruising, check out ANJO

Some homeowners providers can add your boat on.

For an older boat of that size hull insurance is arguably optional. Go for liability only.

Here is the link for the Fl antique vessel registration form.

Different than stated above, to qualify the boat needs to be powered by its original type power plant.

To my knowledge, they have never provided written clarification of "original type". So I read this, if originally powered by a diesel motor and re-powered w/a newer one, that's ok. Generally the owner self certifies that they meet the criteria (or could have a lisc. marine surveyor also).

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by UrbanPoodle

Hello! My husband and I have been living full-time in an RV for nearly 4 years with legal residency in Reno, NV. I'm retired and my husband works online, so we're able to maintain our income and health insurace. We're currently under contract to purchase a documented 1981 Pearson 365 36 ft sloop, on which we plan to live for at least 8 months out of the year. We intend to spend the first one or two seasons on the east coast, going up and down from NC all the way down to the Bahamas. After that, who knows?

It didn't take long to discover that insuring the boat in FL is an expensive complicated PITA and in fact, many companies just won't do it because of the age and length of the boat. I'm currently looking at GA, SC and GA. So how do y'all handle this? What insurance companies are you using that will insure a 41 year old 36 ft sailboat?

Did you register in your home state A vessel is registered in a State of its principal use. Typically, if a vessel resides in a State for 60 consecutive days, then the State of Principal Use becomes deemed the State in which it is then residing, meaning that the State of Principal Use can change and registration then needs to be changed. Principal place of use, is where the vessel will reside the most and "most" can change if the vessel goes wondering about. Some States provide for titling and for registration, other States only provide for registration; 50 States, 50 sets of law. If you enter the territory of a State, you need to become knowledgeable of that specific State's laws and requirements. If registration changes then the insurance underwriter needs [reads must] be promptly notified and the policy may be amended or cancelled depending on the underwriters willingness and / or their legal ability to due business in the new State.

The home state for a vessel is almost always similar to say the home state for a vehicle's registration and license, and / or the home state for issuance of a driver's license as to determination of establishing the Principal State of Use. If you spend more then 60 or 90 days in a new State you typically are required to obtain a new registration for your vehicle and to obtain a new driver's license. States typically have the same agency handle vehicle and vessel registrations.
If you intend to depart the USA then you should consider documenting your vessel with the US Coast Guard so that it will be granted USA nationality [flagged] and be allowed to wear the flag and be provided the coverage of USA maritime law. A vessel that is documented may also require State registration if the vessel establishes a State as the State of Principal Use. Again each State has its own registration requirements, including how they deal with documented vessels or vessels registered in other States or countries. A documented vessel will not be titled by a State. A vessel is either documented [Federal government] or titled, if a State is a titling State, but is not allowed to be documented and titled at the same time.

and, if you're landlocked (like NV) can you insure it there, too? Yes, if the vessel is used in the landlocked State, there are far more boats in landlocked States then there are ocean / coastal vessels in the USA. The insurance underwriter will require your representation of where the vessel will be used most, where it will transit and where it may be stored when not used. If you make misrepresentations or if your usage changes from your prior representation and you have not contacted the insurer to provide updated and corrected representations then you may find that the policy coverage is denied as cancelled when a claim is presented, and the policy may even be deemed void ab initio. Insurance is provided by State licensed agents, brokers and underwriters. By way of example, only Florida State licensed agents / brokers can sell a policy in Florida. Each State's laws are very specific and detailed. Risk assessment and insurance are complex subject matter.
How did you choose your location when it comes to where your boat will spend the majority of its time if you're not, in fact, staying in one place more than a couple months at a time? Foremost a vessel is located where it suits your convenience and pleasure, but also where it serves your risk profile. For example, insurers desire vessels to be outside of the hurricane zone during hurricane season so as to mitigate their risk, they may or may not extend coverage to specific regions at specific times of the year, and / or the terms of coverage may differ based on such factor; cruisers desire to be out of the cold winter weather and in more temperate / tropical climates, so cruising boats tend to migrate with the seasons. An insurance policy will be explicit as to the terms of coverage, for example, requiring the vessel to be out of harm's way out of the hurricane zone, during the season, or it may only cover coastal voyages [remaining within 100 miles of the coast] or it may require not leaving the territorial waters of a nation, or group of nations, e.g., the EU, and it may not provide coverage for specific nations, e.g., Cuba. So I recommend that you begin with determining where YOU desire to be located during each season of the year and when you will desire to depart your vessel and where you will have the vessel stored when you are away, then work with the insurers to provide terms of coverage for fulfilling your desires, that can involve negotiation and compromising. By way of example, a policy may not provide for hull value coverage if the vessel remains in the hurricane zone during hurricane season, or it may have a large deductible for damage caused by a named storm, etc. The devil is in the explicit and complex details of insurance policy underwriting as one has to identify the risks that one desires to have provide risk transfer and financial protection.
The underwriter in turn will propose a cost / price for which they are willing to contract to have such risk transfer assigned to them. One is typically dealing with substantial values of risk transfer so expect that the contract will be inherently complex and specific when you read through the policy terms, each of the terms are negotiable.

TIA for your insight!

Comments above

Bon voyages and God Speed.