Places Where You Can Retire on $200,000 and Feel Rich

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Your missing my point. I'll leave it at that.

Apparently so...you seem to be implying it's cheaper to buy in spain but provided no evidence to support it.

What was your point?

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by john61ct

IFirst worlders are up the creek will be very lucky to last 5 years.

You hear this a lot but I suspect its really a myth put out by survivalists. In reality, people would adapt pretty quickly. It may not be a fun transition and everyone might not survive but pretty quickly, people will adapt.

All depends on the nature of the disaster.

Just as easily a disaster that decimates a 3rd world country is a total non-issue for a 1st world country. There have been plenty of those. Most recent cases of mass starvation...the local people have been far more self sufficient than your modern 1st worlders.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

You hear this a lot but I suspect its really a myth put out by survivalists. In reality, people would adapt pretty quickly. It may not be a fun transition and everyone might not survive but pretty quickly, people will adapt.



All depends on the nature of the disaster.

Yes, as I said.

True collapse of fossil fuels and food distribution would IMO lead to 95% population reduction of "the north" within a few years.

And the people you'd like to be with won't be the survivors.

Best solution in that case is a silver bullet.

Rural 3rd world farming communities with much of their traditions intact, maybe a different result.

Maybe

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Yes, as I said.

True collapse of fossil fuels and food distribution would IMO lead to 95% population reduction of "the north" within a few years.

And the people you'd like to be with won't be the survivors.

Best solution in that case is a silver bullet.

Rural 3rd world farming communities with much of their traditions intact, maybe a different result.

Maybe

Define "population reduction of the north"...does that mean they will die or just that they will move to the south? I suspect the later.

Also, unless it's an instantaneous end to fossil fuels (not likely), they would likely push the rural 3rd world farming communities off their land. What you describe is a survival situation and the niceties go out the window.

Then again, if you look at Africa, a large percentage of the population is the rural farming community, you describe and they are heavily dependent on outside food aid.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Apparently so...you seem to be implying it's cheaper to buy in spain but provided no evidence to support it.

What was your point?

Does everything have to be a conflict here? Read my original post, it wasn't hard to interpret. My point was Australian real estate is extremely expensive compared to many other places in the world, how hard is that to understand.

Quick summary, Australian real estate very expensive, friend sold very overvalued real estate in Australia due to realizing it was overvalued then purchased property in two other countries, 2 income. producing and one hobby. He did this from the proceeds from the original sale of Australian property.

He hasn't needed to have paid employment since ie 9-5 because tbe money from his one Australian home residence enabled him to buy another home and two rental properties., you for some reason needed to dispute this, you needed to argue my definition of work ,which was not the point.

Try buying 6 units near the beach in Australia for 300k, that's what he did at the time in the US, try buying 6 acres of lush country side in Australia for 60,000 euro , that's what he did in Spain. Both Soain and the US had major property crashes, Australia has not, Australia has not had a recession in 28 years, thus other than a small correction recently property prices have been been rising for decades, Australias have 67% of their personal wealth tied up in real estate,Australia has some of the highest household debt in the world due to their real estate prices, etc etc

How hard is that to understand, your being a dick for the sake of being a dick? Do a quick search regarding Australia property rather than being argumentative for the sake of it, you look ignorant, what is your problem and what is your point?

My post didnt require your claim of silly. The point was real simple, read paragraph one again its self explanatory.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Does everything have to be a conflict here? ...
... How hard is that to understand ...
... being argumentative for the sake of it ...

Remember, some people add to a conversation, and some just extend/lengthen it.
Don't let it frustrate, or anger you.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Remember, some people add to a conversation, and some just extend/lengthen it.
Don't let it frustrate, or anger you.

Yep, I was a little quick to react, there was no need to. My apologies. My finger couldn't suck my reply back

[hpeer]

On the subject of surviving a collapse and picking a survival spot....

I’ve given this a LOT of though and participate in a board that deals with such matters for about 10 years. What follows are my thoughts, subject to revision any time I feel like it.

The Earth and humanity upon it make for an unbelievably complex system that is highly inter-related, lots of dependencies. Anyone who says “X will happen” OR “X will not happen” is over stating their true understanding. Almost anything can happen and might. Still there are some things that can be said. My personal way of thinking about it is to make a list of our 5 biggest issues facing humanity. It goes something like this.

ANTIBIOTIC RESISTANCE could let some new and innovative bug out that hit a big hunk of humanity. Ebola has been restrained because it is restricted to fluid transmission. Should it leap to airborne transmission things could get nasty quickly. But also something like a drug resistant TB. Hell, it might even be something that attacks cereal crops.

RESOURCE DEPLETION: oil/water/soil, will eventually catch up to us. It’s only a question of how soon and how we deal with it. Once mass starvation hits its anyone’s guess how populations will move and how food will be shared. It the initial stages it’s mostly a management problem. Ultimately Earths carrying capacity is far below what we currently have.

GLOBAL FINANCIAL COLLAPSE, the kind of thing that we faced in 2008 if you believe Bush/Obama, has not been dealt with, it was pushed off. The entire global trade system relies on trust, both i. The system and that the parties will continue to cooperate. Once that trust is shattered then global trade will likely nearly cease until there is some kind of institutional reboot. That could, would likely, freeze grain shipments and cause starvation and mass migration.

CLIMTE CHANGE is a slowly evolving catastrophe that will eventually severely degrade Earths ability to support large human populations. On its own we should be able to adjust to it and/or slow its progress. We seem unable to do that and this it acts as a force multiplier for the other factors.

OVER POPULATION is often seen as the core problem underlying all other issues. Earths systems simply can not support this kind of energy intensive monoculture. Nor is it at all certain that such population levels are sustainable to humanities own intellect, we may simply start killing one another. It’s happened before and may well happen again.

Each of these items is related in one or more ways to each other item, when one breaks bad it will tend to pull the others along in a cascading failure. I think the term is “critical stability”, something that is stable only in very narrowly defined limits and collapses when any one piece goes awry. The classic “house of cards.”

One can not sufficiently predict what element will fail first and how the cascade will occur nor when it will occur. We don’t understand the limits of criticality sufficiently. Each year the Davos people do a “World Arian Assessment” that is not very good but the best out there.

My personal solution is to be as flexible as possible, to be able to move away from trouble, to find safe havens and get there, to be self sufficient in the meantime. My solution is also to have a hell of a good time in the meantime.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by hpeer

On the subject of surviving a collapse and picking a survival spot....

I’ve given this a LOT of though and participate in a board that deals with such matters for about 10 years. What follows are my thoughts, subject to revision any time I feel like it.

The Earth and humanity upon it make for an unbelievably complex system that is highly inter-related, lots of dependencies. Anyone who says “X will happen” OR “X will not happen” is over stating their true understanding. Almost anything can happen and might. Still there are some things that can be said. My personal way of thinking about it is to make a list of our 5 biggest issues facing humanity. It goes something like this.

ANTIBIOTIC RESISTANCE could let some new and innovative bug out that hit a big hunk of humanity. Ebola has been restrained because it is restricted to fluid transmission. Should it leap to airborne transmission things could get nasty quickly. But also something like a drug resistant TB. Hell, it might even be something that attacks cereal crops.

RESOURCE DEPLETION: oil/water/soil, will eventually catch up to us. It’s only a question of how soon and how we deal with it. Once mass starvation hits its anyone’s guess how populations will move and how food will be shared. It the initial stages it’s mostly a management problem. Ultimately Earths carrying capacity is far below what we currently have.

GLOBAL FINANCIAL COLLAPSE, the kind of thing that we faced in 2008 if you believe Bush/Obama, has not been dealt with, it was pushed off. The entire global trade system relies on trust, both i. The system and that the parties will continue to cooperate. Once that trust is shattered then global trade will likely nearly cease until there is some kind of institutional reboot. That could, would likely, freeze grain shipments and cause starvation and mass migration.

CLIMTE CHANGE is a slowly evolving catastrophe that will eventually severely degrade Earths ability to support large human populations. On its own we should be able to adjust to it and/or slow its progress. We seem unable to do that and this it acts as a force multiplier for the other factors.

OVER POPULATION is often seen as the core problem underlying all other issues. Earths systems simply can not support this kind of energy intensive monoculture. Nor is it at all certain that such population levels are sustainable to humanities own intellect, we may simply start killing one another. It’s happened before and may well happen again.

Each of these items is related in one or more ways to each other item, when one breaks bad it will tend to pull the others along in a cascading failure. I think the term is “critical stability”, something that is stable only in very narrowly defined limits and collapses when any one piece goes awry. The classic “house of cards.”

One can not sufficiently predict what element will fail first and how the cascade will occur nor when it will occur. We don’t understand the limits of criticality sufficiently. Each year the Davos people do a “World Arian Assessment” that is not very good but the best out there.

My personal solution is to be as flexible as possible, to be able to move away from trouble, to find safe havens and get there, to be self sufficient in the meantime. My solution is also to have a hell of a good time in the meantime.

Good post.

[Mike OReilly]

Howard…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHPOzQzk9Qo

[Mike OReilly]

In all seriousness, I don’t disagree with any on your list.

One thing that always strikes me is how vulnerable our global populations have become as we congregate more and more in massive urban areas. Cities are highly dependent on the hinterlands to service their needs. There is little buffer or capacity to allow for the proverbial rainy days.

Stop food deliveries for even a couple of days and people will begin to starve. Disable the rain and sewer systems and you have a virulent cess pool in no time. Turn off the power for a week and much of city dwellings become a death trap.

If I see any of the Four Horse Men, I’m running for the boat. Get out of cities — fast.

[Chotu]

Speaking of survival, a boat is one of the worst places to do that. The only time a boat is good is in times of conflict or when you have to move.

For peer survival, a boat is what almost worthless.

The amount of specialized equipment you need to survive on a boat is enormous. Then there is the matter of getting food. You have to pay for it. If there isn’t much to go around, you’re not getting any. And you’re not growing any. Staying on land is the best for survival.

[cyan]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Speaking of survival, a boat is one of the worst places to do that. The only time a boat is good is in times of conflict or when you have to move.

For peer survival, a boat is what almost worthless.

The amount of specialized equipment you need to survive on a boat is enormous. Then there is the matter of getting food. You have to pay for it. If there isn’t much to go around, you’re not getting any. And you’re not growing any. Staying on land is the best for survival.

I know a few subsistence fishermen in small villages who might be scratching their heads at this statement.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by cyan

I know a few subsistence fishermen in small villages who might be scratching their heads at this statement.

Those people don’t live on their boat. They use a boat to go fishing. I’m scratching my head at your statement. LOL.

They have land. They grow vegetables and things.

[hpeer]

They are stuck in one place. A boat is NOT a survival location. A boat is TRANSPORTATION to a survivable location. If you have a good survivable location you are confident in then by all means invest in that. The option is to invest in flexibility.