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Old 24-07-2019, 04:04   #16
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Re: NSW refugee moving to Qld - cheap pens?

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Welcome to Scarborough Boat Harbour and ScarbMarina, usdivers61! Best wishes for your refit.

Here's a gift, a photo (taken at low tide by Lynne Broughton) of ScarbMarina and a bit of the rest of Scarborough Boat Harbour, and with Deception Bay in the background: Scarborough Marina.jpg, about 87 KB.

I expect you've met the important people: Tracy in the office, Steve in the yard, Jim & Troy of Booker Marine, and Mark of Boatworks.

If you ask Tracy, she can show you the 2018 hydrographic chartlet of the marina. Least depth of 1.8 m, but there're a few spots to know about if you're entering or exiting at spring low tide. I'll attach the MSQ survey statement from 2018, but the chartlet (if Tracy has it at hand) gives the best idea. See survey-scarborough-boat-harbour-03.18.pdf, about 174 KB.

Steve is the man to know if you're hauling out. ScarbMarina is one of the few marinas with a tug service to place you in the TraveLift slings.

Jim and Troy will look after you if you've any engine (inboard and some outboards) work. Golden spanner rates for golden spanner quality work and advice.

Mark and his lead hand, Pat, and their offsiders can do whatever you cannot do. Just make sure that you have your job list agreed with Mark on paper.

You might want to consider joining the Moreton Bay Boat Club. Wed and Sat races, such as on the Garnet Rock course, if you're so inclined. Discount meals for members.

You'll find a number of interesting and useful firms in the Clontarf Industrial area, such as Zackly for fasteners, and ATS Nets & Supplies for shackles and other marine supplies.

Whitworths chandleries are not handy - the nearest ones are at Balaclava St, Woolloongabba; and Breakfast Creek Rd, Breakfast Ck. Whitworths will hold its next discount sale in 2020, on the Friday and Saturday of the Gold Coast/Sanctuary Cove boat show - worth marking the calendar for the 15% discount. If all else fails, there is always Boat Harbour Marine.

Scarborough Boat Harbour is a working harbour, with a fleet of trawlers and netters. The trawlers are of two kinds: Bay trawlers that work inside the Bay from Sunday evening to Friday night; and larger trawlers that work outside the Bay. Consequences include occasional spills of fuel and oil inside the Boat Harbour. Avoiding the berths closest to the trawlers is not a bad idea.

The location of ScarbMarina shows one particular strength in the thunderstorm season that roughly runs from Sept to March. When warm humid air at the surface extending inland to the Darling Downs and other hinterlands combines with colder air at mid-levels, an upper level trough for instability, and Westerly steering winds at higher levels, thunderstorms can form and head towards the coast. The particular local geography usually means that Scarborough is spared the worst with t-storm cells heading N towards the Sunshine Coast or S of Scarborough (and so ploughing the suburbs of Brisbane). Hail at Scarborough is rare and small in size if it does fall. That doesn't mean that ScarbMarina is free of nasty weather incidents - you'll be able to find dock mates to tell you about ex-Cyclone Debbie and so on.

OMG! Thanks so much, that is about the best response I have ever got to a post. Lots of helpful tips too. Yes Tracey has been great, Mark and I have been emailing, but have yet to meet him. I was lucky to get a berth in the fairway closest to the marina office and fuel depot...very handy.


In relation to riggers in the area, who would you recommend for helping install a self tacking rig on my boat that is in the area...if no one in the area, how about Brisbane at large.


Also got some advice for a great passage book so I can find my way around the place...Rob's Passage Planner...very cool....and helpful. Looking forward to trying out some of his trips once my refit is completed.
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Old 24-07-2019, 05:17   #17
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Re: NSW refugee moving to Qld - cheap pens?

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OMG! Thanks so much, that is about the best response I have ever got to a post. Lots of helpful tips too. Yes Tracey has been great, Mark and I have been emailing, but have yet to meet him. I was lucky to get a berth in the fairway closest to the marina office and fuel depot...very handy.


In relation to riggers in the area, who would you recommend for helping install a self tacking rig on my boat that is in the area...if no one in the area, how about Brisbane at large.


Also got some advice for a great passage book so I can find my way around the place...Rob's Passage Planner...very cool....and helpful. Looking forward to trying out some of his trips once my refit is completed.
I can reccomend Gary Saxby, good guy and good prices.
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Old 24-07-2019, 06:07   #18
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Re: NSW refugee moving to Qld - cheap pens?

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In relation to riggers in the area, who would you recommend for helping install a self tacking rig on my boat that is in the area...if no one in the area, how about Brisbane at large.
Hmm ... that's above my pay grade - in the sense that (1) I know naught about self-tacking rigs; and (2) I don't know if any of the riggers whose services I've bought would know more than I do.

Of course, you may be full bottle on self-tacking and you may have sister ships that have converted to self-tacking and so all the details are well tested. If that is the case, either of the two riggers I mention below would help.

I'll instead start by telling a story about another ScarbMarina identity, Bill Hatfield, who is currently on his third attempt to set a solo Westabout non-stop circumnav record. You can read Bill's blog at: https://www.sailblogs.com/member/leaucommotion/ Bill is on about Day 49 of his circumnav as I write.

For his current attempt, Bill decided to change the rig of his boat. He wanted to shorten the mast, add another set of spreaders, and generally make the rig more robust. All to remedy problems that had arisen in each of his two earlier attempts.

Bill approached one of the two riggers whose name first comes to my mind in answer to your question, David Lambourne. For contact details and so on, see: David Lambourne Yacht Rigging & Consultancy - AYF Accredited, Supplier of Yacht Rigging,rigging wire, stainless rigging wire, stainless steel rigging wire to Brisbane and Australia. David Lambourne David L is based at Lytton, on the S side of the Brissy river (the other side of the Gateway Bridge).

David effectively replied to Bill that such a change to the rig was out of his pay grade. So David L put Bill in touch with a naval architect who did all the engineering calculations. And David L did the rigging work, which is his speciality.

The other rigger I name is Colin Quin. Colin is based on the Sunshine Coast (i.e. north of Scarborough) but is prepared to drive down to ScarbMarina to do work. Colin is a certified rig surveyor (most surveyors don't touch rigs) and he is prepared to drive to Scarborough (not all riggers and surveyors based in Southeast Qld are prepared to do so). Colin is very competent. And he's a recreational sailor. But you'd need to ask him if he is so familiar with self-tacking to be able to do the work himself or whether you're better advised to talk to a naval architect first. Colin was my choice to work on my boat about 4 years ago.

You can contact Colin Q at quinsales@bigpond.com, landline 07 54506889, and mobile 0418832615. With good fortune, all those contacts from 4 years back will still work.
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Old 24-07-2019, 15:10   #19
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Re: NSW refugee moving to Qld - cheap pens?

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I can reccomend Gary Saxby, good guy and good prices.
Can you PM his contact details please.
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Old 24-07-2019, 15:13   #20
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Re: NSW refugee moving to Qld - cheap pens?

Cheers Alan!
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Old 24-07-2019, 16:30   #21
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Re: NSW refugee moving to Qld - cheap pens?

usdivers61: The rigger with whom we have dealt most in the Brisbane area is Scott Keogh. He is knowledgeable and honest--and he knows a spar engineer, Simon ?, who helped design the new spar for our former boat. Simon is a whiz at sorting things.

Scott is usually quite busy and is not known for speedy completions, as he has so many going at once. We would still stand this inconvenience and expense (for marina berthing, which i understand is not a problem for you, but was for us.)



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Old 24-07-2019, 20:16   #22
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Re: NSW refugee moving to Qld - cheap pens?

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Can you PM his contact details please.
Done.
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Old 25-07-2019, 01:07   #23
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Re: NSW refugee moving to Qld - cheap pens?

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I was lucky to get a berth in the fairway closest to the marina office and fuel depot...very handy.
No worries. You'll be able to change to another berth.

Consider the attached graphic of the berths at ScarbMarina. Note the compass rose at bottom left, for reference.

The long walkways M and K run more-or-less SE to NW. The shorter walkways, A to L, run SW to NE.

That means that a berth on M or K (or the C12-D14) berths are blow-on or blow-off berths in a SE wind. (by blow-on, I mean that the wind would blow your boat onto the tie-up dock) And a boat docking on M will be headed (wind from the bow) if it berths during a SW, but tailed (pushed into the slip) if the wind is an NE.

Similarly, the berths on A to L are blow-on or blow-off in NE or SW winds. And headed or tailed in NW or SE winds.

Many (but of course not all) sailors like a blow-on berth when entering their slip. And a head wind slows the boat down, sometimes to the point of being something to motor against when docking.

So ... consider the winds in ScarbMarina at the likely time you are (1) going to un-dock and head to sea; or (2) coming into a slip to tie-up.

Point your browser to https://www.seabreeze.com.au/weather...ecast/brisbane

And then scroll down to the 7th chart from the top, the one titled "REDCLIFFE Live Wind Report". That chart was created by taking data from the Bureau of Met automatic station at Redcliffe. It shows you the past 24 hours of wind data from not a million miles away from ScarbMarina.

Or consider the Bureau of Met's accumulated data.

I focus on two times: when I'm most likely to undock; and when I'm most likely to dock.

One time might be in the early morning, from say first light to 0900. My reading of the BoM data is that from March to August each year, more than 30% of the early mornings will see a light SW wind. The rest of the time, the wind will be calm, or light and from SE or S.

My other benchmark time is 1500. Great time to dock and allow time to wash down the boat, stand down the boat, and see off guests. My reading of BoM data is that from September to January each year, more than 30% of the wind at 1500 will be NE. The rest of the time it will likely be E or SE.

For those reasons (and for the handedness of my prop), I prefer a port-side tie-up with my head to NE.

Of course, Your Mileage May Vary. And you've time to consider your options.

One other thing worth mentioning is: the birds. Now it's possible that your dock-mates or the usual dock idlers have mentioned them to you. The birds I have in mind are the 'welcome swallows' and the 'tree martins'. They're of similar size.

The welcome swallow has a rufous breast (and young ones wear white eye shadow). See: https://www.facebook.com/SkardaborgB...4933667588944/

The tree martin doesn't have a forked tail. Or the rufous breast. See: https://www.facebook.com/SkardaborgB...4939374255040/

Both tree martins and welcome swallows extend a welcome to any cruiser who has a hollow boom extrusion. Or a mainsail that is not flaked tight and covered. They both love small spaces, nooks, and crannies. A boom, a loose fold of the mainsail.

So if you've a hollow boom extrusion, open to the world, you might want to stuff a rag in it.

Not a few sailors have discovered a surprise when, while motoring out of the channel, they hoist the John B's sail, see how the mainsail's set etc etc
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Old 25-07-2019, 16:21   #24
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Re: NSW refugee moving to Qld - cheap pens?

I am in row N, with a port side berth. With the SE blowing gives a easy tie up without interfering with any other boats. I have got the long side port side berth which is 15m.
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Old 25-07-2019, 21:21   #25
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Re: NSW refugee moving to Qld - cheap pens?

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I am in row N, with a port side berth. With the SE blowing gives a easy tie up without interfering with any other boats. I have got the long side port side berth which is 15m.
No worries. As long as you are aware that, as with boats, all berths are compromises.

Now, about the berths in ScarbMarina ...

The area of ScarbMarina is a long term lease from the Port of Brisbane Authority (or the corporate entity that now owns the PBA) held by Mark the Moneybags (who is not the same as Mark of Marineworks).

Mark the M owns all of the berths on M row and a goodly proportion of the other berths. The interesting part is that when Mark the M bought (from a previous owner of the marina) the lease, he sold sub-leases to many of the berths to help him finance his purchase of the marina lease.

So the sub-leases of quite a few of the berths are privately held. By 'sub-lease', I mean that for example a cruiser with a boat has bought - from Mark the M - rights to berth Ix until the year 2033. And then keeps his/her boat in Ix and does not pay berthing fees but does pay annual marina maintenance fees (parallel to Body Corporate fees in a strata title home unit).

You can go to the admin office and ask Tracy to see the list of sub-leases that are currently for sale. And the price that the current owner of the sub-lease has suggested for the transaction. That's because sub-leases can only be sold with the marina management's knowledge.

For all you know, the sub-lease on the berth you're currently occupying might be offered for sale. With an indicative price. Or there might be another berth for sale that is even more attractive to you (otherwise ... why was that berth vacant and waiting for you? Of course, it might be a berth owned by Mark the M, but then you have to wonder why no one wanted to buy that berth...).

Once you know how much you are paying annually for your berth rental, and you also know what the indicative price for that berth or other berth for its sub-lease to 2033, you can calculate what you might want to do for your financial advantage.

In 2033, the sublease to any berth will be worth $0, because in that year all sub-leases collapse and the berth returns to Mark the M to put up for rent. Until then the value of a sublease has to do with (number of years to 2033) multiplied by ((annual berth rent) + (annual maintenance fees)). And of course (annual berth rent) and (annual maintenance fees) are increased by a CPI-type inflator by Mark the M every year or two (and of course he employs an accountant, who sits in an office next to Tracy's desk, to calculate all that; you may find it in your interest to meet her and talk to her about the economics of owning your own berth or two, especially with interest rates as they are at the moment).

Some cruisers own more than one sub-lease. And either directly rent out the additional berth or put the additional berth in the marina's rental pool. Some of the richer liveaboards who you'll meet have three or so sub-leases to cover the cost of the berth they occupy.

Even a few non-boaters live locally - one of whom you might meet on Sunday morning if you're on board and working on board; respond to him when he greets you, he's a pleasant bloke - own a few sub-leases just for retirement income purposes (probably put in a SMSF). The ATO regards sub-leases as commercial (i.e. not residential) property for taxation purposes.
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Old 26-07-2019, 01:45   #26
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Re: NSW refugee moving to Qld - cheap pens?

Wow, that is really interesting.
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Old 26-07-2019, 03:34   #27
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Re: NSW refugee moving to Qld - cheap pens?

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Wow, that is really interesting.
Give yourself time.

First you have to get to know SE QLD, its roads etc, and the other marinas.

Second you have to have done several dockings and undockings to work out which berth(s) might really suit you, your boat, and so on.

Third, you need to get the list of berths for sale from Tracy, talk with Trace about which owners are desperate to sell, and so on; and then talk to Danii about the economics of buying one or more berths with a view perhaps to owning just enough berths for profits to cover the maintenance fees of the berth you are using.

Fourth, you might want to talk to Steve the Yard, to get his view on what berth(s) to buy. Steve the Y might be working the office tomorrow morning - if so, a great opportunity to introduce yourself, get to know Steve, and understand why his opinion might count more than mine.
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Old 30-07-2019, 04:01   #28
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Re: NSW refugee moving to Qld - cheap pens?

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Also got some advice for a great passage book so I can find my way around the place...Rob's Passage Planner...very cool....and helpful. Looking forward to trying out some of his trips once my refit is completed.
I wasn't familiar with Rob's Passage Planner. So on the weekend I talked with one of the Elder Brethren, who lives aboard on C row.

The EB showed me his old (I think 2011) copy of R'sPP, talked about its many shortcomings, and pointed me to R's website (and others) from which you can download the 2012 etc version of R'sPP.

See the relevant chartlet attached (Robs Pssge Plannr 2012.jpg).

Neat that R gives distances from Scarborough. But misleading in that R'sPP does not indicate which of several possible routes would be taken. Or for what sort of vessel (a planing hull with minimal draught, a deep keel yacht, a shoal draught sailer, a displacement hull motor cruiser, etc).

Further misleading in that the only Moreton Bay destination shown is Tangalooma. And again, depending on your draught, the direction of the wind, the time of tide, the day of the week (and such like), you've several ways to get to Tangalooma. That's if you wanted to go there instead of a better anchorage (such as - on the W coast of Moreton Island - Lucinda Bay, or the Sandhills).

You could look instead at MSQ's (maritime safety QLD) recommended routes for small craft. See attached chartlet: Moreton Bay small craft routes.jpg.

MSQ has many objectives. One is to keep recreational craft from impeding the progress of shipping, including cargo ships, cruise ships, and the like. So the shipping channels are indicated and recommended routes that either parallel the shipping channels or cross them at a perpendicular.

MSQ especially likes small craft to monitor VHF 12 when closing on a shipping channel. Brisbane Harbour also known as Brisbane VTS is monitors and uses VHF 12 to talk to shipping. Also regularly announces to all monitoring VHF 12 what vessels are entering or exiting the port of Brisbane. Shipping is also required to monitor VHF 12, so if you've doubts about the intentions of a vessel you can talk to it. And Brisbane Harbour will even entertain complaints from any recreational craft that thinks it was hard done by an encounter with shipping.

From the chartlet Moreton Bay small craft routes you'll see one route option that is open to a vessel from ScarbMarine heading N. That's the route that takes you between Skirmish Point on Bribie Island and the fabled "Gilligans Island" sandbank. You of course need to work the tides and be aware of depth and your draught, but the Gillligans Island route is a fast way to get out of Moreton Bay from ScarbMarina.

Marine Traffic and other AIS-monitors allow you to generate a density map of traffic in Moreton Bay. Here's one I generated in 2017 - see attached chartlet: Moreton Bay Density Map.jpg.

The MB Density Map quickly indicates some favoured anchorages, such as on the W coast of Moreton Island. You'll even see what looks jolly like a yacht on the Garnet Rock race route.

With regard to Moreton Island, if Rule 1 of sailing in northern Moreton Bay is to monitor VHF 12, then Rule 2 is never to be caught on the W coast of Moreton Island in a westerly wind. A short westerly spell is very likely in about one week's time. Never think that Rule 2 is over-come by the line of hulks sunk just W of the Tangalooma anchorage. Other than Mud Island, the only safe anchorages in northern MB during stiff W weather are those along the coast of the mainland.

I can recommend doing the Garnet Rock route for fun on a non-race day. It's a simple but most challenging route. Sometimes windward-leeward, other times a reach both ways. And sailing the route on a non-race day is a big step towards racing.
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Old 30-07-2019, 20:44   #29
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Re: NSW refugee moving to Qld - cheap pens?

We need to catch up for a drink so I can pick your brains
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