New England Liveaboard Heating Recommendations

[RaymondR]

A permanent live aboard but starting to struggle with cold a bit a bit with advancing age.

Whilst able to chase the sun, which in addition to reduce the heating needs is advantageous health wise, would like to inhabit a warm boat on cold nights.

However heating would be nice.

Like the hydronics concept.

With the cost of diesel and butane like the thought of wood fired.

How do I incorporate it with my hat water system to enable a hot shower occasionally?

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

A permanent live aboard but starting to struggle with cold a bit a bit with advancing age.

Whilst able to chase the sun, which in addition to reduce the heating needs is advantageous health wise, would like to inhabit a warm boat on cold nights.

However heating would be nice.

Like the hydronics concept.

With the cost of diesel and butane like the thought of wood fired.

How do I incorporate it with my hat water system to enable a hot shower occasionally?

Well, young fella, how do you plan to source your wood?
Down here in the benighted south they sell what I would call 'kindling' for $10 for what you would call a sugar bag.

I guess you could just buy a machete and go ashore and destroy a bit of koala habitat.

Or maybe you could just dress warm.

A little story regarding how Q'landers deal with cold.
Back in the mid 90's I happened to be in Tin Can Bay on the coldest day in the history of the known austral universe. Coldest temp ever recorded at Charlottes Pass.

House was owned by Tasmanian refugees.. they had the foresight to have a pot belly stove in middle of the living room - burinng mangroves.

Everybody clustered around the stove - while all the doors and windows were open

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Well, young fella, how do you plan to source your wood?
Down here in the benighted south they sell what I would call 'kindling' for $10 for what you would call a sugar bag.

I guess you could just buy a machete and go ashore and destroy a bit of koala habitat.

Or maybe you could just dress warm.

A little story regarding how Q'landers deal with cold.
Back in the mid 90's I happened to be in Tin Can Bay on the coldest day in the history of the known austral universe. Coldest temp ever recorded at Charlottes Pass.

House was owned by Tasmanian refugees.. they had the foresight to have a pot belly stove in middle of the living room - burinng mangroves.

Everybody clustered around the stove - while all the doors and windows were open

I have a mate with a firewood business and chain saws are cheap these days.

[paralog]

Originally Posted by nash_sailing

Hi all,



We are new liveaboards in Boston and as July goes on we are beginning to think about how to heat our 40' sailboat in the colder months. The only heating system currently installed is a hot water heater and a solid-fuel stove, which is luckily allowed in our marina - however we need a solution that will keep the boat at a reasonable temperature while we go to work during the day. We are also very worried about moisture, as our hull construction is not insulated - however it is quite thick, with 7 layers of FG.



This is our first season living aboard so we do not want a huge project, but electric only seems like a dangerous and expensive option, as does propane. We are currently considering a portable oil-filled radiator, a forced-air Eberspacher or knockoff, and have also heard good things about ceramic, but it seems like ventilation is a must. We are also planning on buying a desiccant dehumidifier and have heard that these give off a considerable amount of heat - can anyone clarify how much?



Finally, we are planning to take our boat cruising to the high lats in 2024, so any system that can work off shore power is preferred in the long run.



Thank you for any insight,



Nash

I have lived aboard since 2006 in BC Canada and there are pros and cons of all of the systems. I use an oil filled electric radiator and a bulkhead sigmar running kerosene. I found it was cleaner than stove oil (diesel).


The sigmar/dickenson heaters are simple, reliable but must be installed correctly and maintained correctly otherwise they can become blocked up with dirty fuel or with water. If they are not installed correctly they can suffer from blow back and you end up filled with dirty smelly soot and smoke. But overall they are probably the most efficient and do not rely on power to run.

The Espar/webasto systems are nice and convenient and produce a nice heat but require power to run and can be noisy depending on the size of the boat and the location of the unit and exhaust. If they fail in the middle of no where you may not be able to fix them, whereas the dickinson can usually be repaired in the field

There are also water based heating systems that run off espar systems, a nice system but again needs power.

I think in an ideal world i would have both systems, quick heat from the espar when needed and the dickinson system for longer heat.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

I have a mate with a firewood business and chain saws are cheap these days.

I'm not sure how the logistics of that fit in with the cruising lifestyle.

Wood may make sense in some areas - Patagonia f'rinstance - where in many anchorages you can just step out of your dinghy and cut a load of wood. Not that I think it's a good idea but many of the fishermen do it.

There is one tree down there that burns well when 'green'. I forget the name.

[RaymondR]

Back when I was a teenager my father made a living gill netting mullet. The market was about 7nm away so if we didn't catch enough to make it worth motoring the 7 nm we would butterfly filet the fish and hang it in the large chimney to smoke. The smoke was provided by a green sheoak log which, when new would extend from the stove all the way through the kitchen and out the door. Green sheoak burns so hot that it would continuously smolder thereby supplying an uninterrupted supply of smoke.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by toddster8

For those advocating diesel heaters: All of the inexpensive ones appear to be forced-air. What about hydronic units? It would seem easier to route hot water lines than air ducts through the boat. However, most of these units appear to run on 24VDC. Any experience?

Several hydronic projects on land here but none aboard.


On a sailboat the main drawbacks are upfront cost and electrical draw for the system as a whole including pumps and fans. Complexity of service and availability of spare parts are also facts to consider. I think they're a good fit for much larger boats, say, a 55' Nordhaven or something.


I like the Wallas forced-air heaters. On a larger boat you can use two or even three and your costs and electric draw will be well below those for a hydronic setup.

[hpeer]

IMHO, and depending upon boat layout, you do NOT need a lot of duct work. In our 44’ center cockpit I have less than 3’ total. The aft cabin is not directly heated, but recieves enough heat to make sleeping with comforters perfectly fine. I would rather out in a second unit than run a bunch of duct wasting precious space.

Someone mention diesel gelling. I have a Dickenson in a hunting cabin and irregular oil viscosity has been an issue. A simple Walbro pump does the trick. On a boat the fuel may never get cold enough to be an issue as the water never gies much below freezing, unless you are in solid ice.

The one thing most posters step over is availability of heat WHILE SAILING. The range of options narrows significantly. You are away from the dock and electricity sources, and the boat heels and the boom swings and the wind blows. For off dock heat, while sailing, it is hard to beat an Espar type unit, forced air or hydronic.

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

How do I incorporate it with my hat water system to enable a hot shower occasionally?

Hydronic units (certainly Webasto and Ebar) simple add a dual coil calorifier or plumb directly into your engine cooling circuit and existing calorifier.

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

Hydronic units (certainly Webasto and Ebar) simple add a dual coil calorifier or plumb directly into your engine cooling circuit and existing calorifier.

Bot having had a hydronic system I did not know that. Thanks.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Several hydronic projects on land here but none aboard.

On a sailboat the main drawbacks are upfront cost and electrical draw for the system as a whole including pumps and fans. Complexity of service and availability of spare parts are also facts to consider. I think they're a good fit for much larger boats, say, a 55' Nordhaven or something.

I like the Wallas forced-air heaters. On a larger boat you can use two or even three and your costs and electric draw will be well below those for a hydronic setup.

I will add that, in my view, hydronic units are disadvantaged by the slow "heat-up" time compared to forced air. If you come back to the boat which has been sitting all day in the freezing cold you want it warm fast. Forced air does that.

And, in my case, I didn't want to add the weight of long runs of water pipe (full of water) and the weight of multiple radiators and fans.

The forced air was simpler, faster, lighter, and easier to install.

[rphdiego]

If you want heat for long periods of time then Hydronic is your only option. Go to the suremarineseattle website and go through the provided information. They are the countries leader in boat heating systems.

[RaymondR]

This hydronic stuff got me pondering in depth.

I already have a butane water heater installed in my radar pole which has a couple of valves to bypass the hot water tank so I could exchange this for a gas boiler (the image) they are about the same size, and use the existing water piping system with dome more valves to bring the hot water from the boiler to the places in the boat where the radiators are needed and use it to shower with as well.

Now, where do I put that monstrous big butane bottle.

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by rphdiego

If you want heat for long periods of time then Hydronic is your only option. Go to the suremarineseattle website and go through the provided information. They are the countries leader in boat heating systems.

Hydronic the Only Option?
Hardly
Power use, diesel consumption, slow to warm up a cold boat!
Noisy as well.

Wood is a much better option.
Along with a GRAVITY fed Diesel heater, such as a Dickenson Antarctica has enough BTU capability to heat a 40ft. Easily, and will heat water, can be used to cook on.

You cannot cook food on a hydronic heater, or boil water.
Everything has its limitations.
Boatyarddog

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

This hydronic stuff got me pondering in depth.

I already have a butane water heater installed in my radar pole which has a couple of valves to bypass the hot water tank so I could exchange this for a gas boiler (the image) they are about the same size, and use the existing water piping system with dome more valves to bring the hot water from the boiler to the places in the boat where the radiators are needed and use it to shower with as well.

Now, where do I put that monstrous big butane bottle.

The caloric value of butane, propane, is much lower than diesel or Kerosene.

Filling the bottles can be a hassle on the water, as you generally must be near a land based filling station.

In an emergency, try getting your butane fix aboard a tanker, or even another boat.
Unlikely to happen.
Boatyarddog