New England Liveaboard Heating Recommendations

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Jammer

It is written somewhere that if you have a drip pot heater, eventually there will be a diesel spill from it and the boat will smell like diesel forevermore. Much to the displeasure of the admiralty.


Fact, or fiction?

In my experience this is fiction.

My diesel heater required manual adjustment of an air intake to achieve the proper air fuel mixture. Too much air and it belched floating soot flakes out the stack. Too little air and the fuel did not burn completely and pooled in the bottom of the heater.

In the latter event the fuel could overflow the bottom of the heater and onto the cabin sole. It happened a few times, usually during the night. It made a mess but did not result in any lasting smell (the smell of the incomplete combustion was much worse, but that too disappeared as soon as the air cleared in the boat). This is not much different than spilling diesel fuel while working on the engine or fuel system.

[nash_sailing]

Thank you everyone for the very helpful responses! It sounds like diesel forced air is the way to go - especially because ventilation is such a big concern - even in May in Maine we noticed considerable condensation on the hull. The drip system could also be an option - we've heard good things.



The forced air systems seem relatively easy to install, and this is definitely something we want to do in the summer. Since we already have a hot water heater, hydronic seems redundant - it would be a fairly big DIY project to modify our existing system to also heat our boat, and as it is currently wired it uses the heat generated by the engine or shore power, so it's not a long-term cruising solution in cold weather.



Right now it seems like a diesel forced air + fans + dehumidifier + solid fuel stove might be a good combination. We love the romance of the solid fuel stove so we don't want to give that up yet, but need to do some more research on types of fuel, as it's hard to find charcoal rated for indoor use and the small bbq wood chunks we've been using are quite expensive. Its unlikely our marina would be happy with us chopping wood on the dock.

[nash_sailing]

Originally Posted by Ifitsworthdoing

Following - but with a proviso that we would need an all-electric solution as we have plenty of solar and try to make a point of going fossil fuel free …

Super admirable! Here we were thinking we were making an environmentally friendly choice by living on a boat, and now we're discussing whether diesel or charcoal is a better choice...

[nash_sailing]

Originally Posted by Fatbob

This seemed to be a good option that a guy installed for a life aboard in Denmark.

Yes, this seems like a great option - I'm planning to do more research into oil heaters. I'm surprised more people here haven't recommended them. This particular model is a bit out of our price range, but I'm sure there are more affordable options!

[nash_sailing]

Originally Posted by deblen

Diesel,no power reqd, burns clean- Hamilton Marine
You must use Refleks insulated chimney components for these to draw & work properly-constant running on Lo will burn 30 gal / mo.
https://refleks-olieovne.dk/en/



Next choice-Dickenson heater-almost as good as Refleks-but require 12VDC to run their tiny combustion blower for cleanest burning.Also needs proper insulated chimney to draw/burn cleanly.


The Eberspacher type & Chinese variants work well,but burn a fair amount of DC & as stated,& have a hot exhaust.



Cheers/Len

The Dickinson diesel heaters seem like a great option - but since we already have a Dickinson Newport solid fuel stove we'd either have to replace this or add another chimney, which seems like a bad idea.



Our fuel tank is very accessible directly behind the companionway stairs, so I think it might be quite doable to install a vent and fan below the stairs and minimize the exhaust length.

[nash_sailing]

Originally Posted by winjamerk

We purchased a bench-test used Webasto hydronic diesel heater for our 40' sailboat for living aboard in Boston area over two winters. then used full-time for 7 years on the Chesapeake Bay (sometimes with 2' snowstorms). Purchased used and had local outfit in Boston install primary unit with electronics, exhaust, operational hookups. I ran the anti-freeze heating fluid hose lines, etc and fan-assisted heat exchangers along the starboard length of boat. Unit plumbed to fuel tank, dc-operation for running with 6 fan-assisted heat exchangers so could use underway, easily during cold weather operation. Power draw was about 3 amp/hour for heater and about 1/2 amp for each of 6 heat exchangers.

If you can access space next to hull. slide in foil covered bubble wrap full length of boat. Same with access to underside of coach roof if accessible. Get roll of 3-mill plastic from hdwre store and open all ports and insert oversized sheet inside and close tight. if you have removable screen inserts for hatches, remove screens, cut oversized 3-mil sheet and cover screen frame and re-insert below hatches. Always have 12-volt fans running or ac units in dock. Never had condensation!!!!! There's a reason Webasto heating units were in so many truckers units parking overnight, staying toasty warm back when mine was installed. I'd do it again. Heating hoses coiled thru the hot water tank also. Summer is best time to complete install......... before you know what's coming.

This is very helpful advice, thank you! We are not planning on adding insulation this season because it would probably be very destructive for the cabinetry. We will definitely investigate better insulating the port lights, the butterfly hatch and other hatches - I was thinking a thick blanket might do the trick.


Like I mentioned above, modifying our existing hot water tank seems like a huge project, so we're a bit wary of that.

[SV__Grace]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

Perhaps a little of both?
I've lived with a Dickinson stove for many years, it pretty much runs 24/7 for ~8>9 months a year. With snow outside the boat is warm/dry.
Never have had any "spill", but I'm sure there are those with horror stories, (there is a definite learning curve).
I can understand the desire of the OP to keep the propane cook stove, as such I can 2nd the motion for either the Reflex or Dickinson drip-burner heaters. In the Dickinson brand, the floor standing units are quite powerful, the little bulkhead mounted ones are not as efficient with their fuel burn but can work for a smaller interior volume.

Like Bowdrie above we're in PNW as well and modified our Nauticat 43 interior to accommodate a Dickinson floor standing unit that we keep running 24/7 during the winter months which uses 1.3 gallons of diesel per day on low and at that level works well to keep the boat relatively warm and very dry. This would be my recommendation for OP.

We also have hydronic heating with 5 registers throughout the boat and fire it up in the morning for a few hours in freezing temps (below 35 or so) to supplement the Dickinson. During freezing conditions of more than a few days we turn off the Dickinson and keep the hydronic heat going 24/7.

We prefer the Dickinson for being quiet and fuel efficient but for us it doesn't perform well at higher than "medium" setting but at low it needs no attention and will run as long as needed without fuss. The fireplace effect is beautiful and comforting.

Our hydronic system works well but is noisy and uses more fuel and electrical power than we prefer. As full time cruisers who live on the hook fuel efficiency is everything, especially during the winter when our solar output is much lower.

Every winter we install insulating window film like this on our windows, ports, and hatches, which is easy to do and eliminates a big source of condensation and heat loss. Just clean the frame (we use alcohol), apply the tape, apply the film, trim the film, use a blow dryer to shrink the film, and done. We can do a window, port or hatch in 5-10 minutes, a project of less than 2 hours once per year. Easy to remove when the weather warms.

Depending upon your boat's ventilation you might leave one hatch clear for ventilation when needed. We supplement our ventilation with computer fans for the forward most (intake) and aft most (exhaust) vents.

Even with a well built boat like ours and the OP, adding insulation in the hull and ceiling is the best thing you can do for preparing your boat for cold weather- cold air and condensation will enter the boat from the hull surfaces, which hull insulation will help, and heat will escape from the ceiling surfaces or nullified by cold decks, which ceiling insulation will help.

[Benz]

I've lived aboard for several New England winters and am currently cruising on a different boat among icebergs in Greenland. My own boat has a Navigator Stove Works "Sardine" stove, which kept us warm and dry by itself when aboard, and kept our shrink wrap canopy dry as well. When away we would plug in a cheap household oil-filled radiator sort which kept things warm and with no one breathing didn't cause condensation. Returning we would always go back to the wood stove. I burned less than half a cord of wood over a long, super-cold winter.
The boat I'm cruising now in Disko Bay has a Dickinson wood stove, which is woefully inadequate, but does take the edge off. We installed a truck heater on the engine, which takes heat from the exhaust water and blows it into the cabin. Since the motor is on a lot, it heats the boat most efficiently. If I was going to winter up here I'd far prefer a diesel cookstove that's always on, but I have no plans to overwinter.
Electricity is not always available at dockside, and it's all 220 volt, so you need special equipment--we haven't plugged in anywhere in Greenland.

[c.K.]

Originally Posted by nash_sailing

Hi all,



We are new liveaboards in Boston and as July goes on we are beginning to think about how to heat our 40' sailboat in the colder months. The only heating system currently installed is a hot water heater and a solid-fuel stove, which is luckily allowed in our marina - however we need a solution that will keep the boat at a reasonable temperature while we go to work during the day. We are also very worried about moisture, as our hull construction is not insulated - however it is quite thick, with 7 layers of FG.



This is our first season living aboard so we do not want a huge project, but electric only seems like a dangerous and expensive option, as does propane. We are currently considering a portable oil-filled radiator, a forced-air Eberspacher or knockoff, and have also heard good things about ceramic, but it seems like ventilation is a must. We are also planning on buying a desiccant dehumidifier and have heard that these give off a considerable amount of heat - can anyone clarify how much?



Finally, we are planning to take our boat cruising to the high lats in 2024, so any system that can work off shore power is preferred in the long run.



Thank you for any insight,



Nash

Hey Nash
I have been living on board a very long time and had webasto eberspecher wood stove porpane forced air systems
Currnetly I have a planar forced air diesel heater big over capacity leaving this kind of heater always on a low setting causes it to gum up with carbon unless you want to burn clean kerosine
Also have as a backup forced air propane heater like they use in rv's very difficult install and you can't have extented in take or exhaust

Insolation: I used half inch pink styro foam and used liquid nails polyurethene glue after very thorough depaint and cleaning of surfaces finding hollow spots by tapping and using a low expansion foam to fill and putting some pressure on that spot
next is abit more involved and I have never heard of anybody solving these problems like this
In modern day construction there is a product called dryfit it gets mixed with water and looks like tile glue afterwards you trawl it on and apply a nylon weave that you also trawl on make it smooth afterwards I have used an acriclic fine staccu looks great and in total weighs 1 pound per square foot no more moisture
This is how I did the celing the free boards I used the same materials , this time 1'' pink styro foam and the dryfit system and glued on indoor outdoor carpet still going strong after eleven years
All these products are currently used in modern day outdoor construction

[c.K.]

Originally Posted by nash_sailing

Super admirable! Here we were thinking we were making an environmentally friendly choice by living on a boat, and now we're discussing whether diesel or charcoal is a better choice...

hey Nash
To add to the previous post
I did have 2 wood stoves, for your vessel you need a decent chimney and not all of you neighbors in the marina like the smell or the slightest pieces of sudd
associated with that
Forced air is way to go
however if you don't insulate you will always have this moisture problem and The smell on you clothes not to forget to mention!!!

[ncohen226]

On our 40 ft sailboat in northern Ontario we have a Wallis dt40 for the last 8 years.

It heats the boat well.

I find it actually dries out the boat to the point where in need to add a bit of humidity back.

The questions I wished I’d asked :

What is the required on-going maintenance? Where will the unit be maintained? Availability of parts?
What is the decibel level?
How many zones can I turn on and off?

[rainforest]

Lots of good info in these replies. I lived aboard for ten years - this in cold wet west coast Canadian winters. Had a Dickinson running 24/7 in fall through spring. Used very little diesel. No power at all. Kept the boat (Maple Leaf 48') warm and DRY. Beauty of an oil stove is it exchanges the air in the boat continuously. In summer we ran the Dickinson overnight to heat water for showers. In summer used propane stove to cook or the microwave.

[hpeer]

IMHO, if you are serious about “Norther” waters…

When the water is 0°C and there is fog, and bergy bits around I really, really, really want a solid reliable heat system. Really!

My primo option is 2 installed diesel forced air heaters mounted so as to heat different prts of the boat, especially if a center cockpit. Then you need very little ducting, which just takes up needed space, and built in zoning, and a back ip for when it needs maintenance. You don’t need to run them both all the time but when it gets right chilly ot might be warranted.

We have lived aboard a 44’ steel cutter in Delaware all winter a couple of times with an Espar D-4. It keeps us comfortable to below freezing. Around 0C it can’t maintain room temp and we need to put in more clothes. I have been aboard down to about -10°C. You want a thermostat that measures air temo at thermostat, not intake air. I don’t knkw if that is an issue anymore but was.

For spare parts you need:
The blower unit - first thing to go
Glow plugs
Burner screens
A modified socket wrench to remove the glow plug. It is like a car sensor socket but different size. Just get a deep well socket and cut a groove to go over the wires. The supplied stamped metal tools can deform and slip. Not good.

And if really serious, I would carry a entire spare unit. Espar is expensive. The Planar are pretty reasonably priced. The Chinese are dirt cheap. Maybe 2 entire spare for the cost.

Also, make sure you can gain ready access to the glow plug. That is your #1 most common maintenance item. You don’t want to have to remove the unit to change a plug or screen. Otherwise you may have to remove the exhaust connection and unbolt the unit from its mount. PITA.

I find the beauty of these heaters is their ability to run while sailing. I mounted mine over the engine and have about a meter of air duct total. If going North more seriously I would mount a second in the aft cabin.

The beauty of these heaters is they work while sailing, diesel drip pots (Dickenson et al) have a gravity feed carburetor and float arrangement and really want over 2 meters of air draft which can screw with the sails and rigging and visa versa.

The only “problem” I have with my engine house arrangement is the unit will eventually throw an over heat alarm if it is running while I am motoring. A buss heater which you use when motoring would fix that problem as would a second hearer in the lazarette. But that boat is now back in Caribbean so not an issue for now.

If you are summer cruising around Maine or the Maritimes then this is over kill. If going to Labrador then not. The damn Labrador current is killer cold. And the fog, it eats your soul.

[gagrant]

I have 2 boats and live in West Coast Canada. In the 44’ sailboat I have an ITR Hurricane hydronic heater with a flash water heater that gives me endless hot water. There is an engine loop to give heat when running the engine and the diesel burner. 3 zones of heat with thermostats. One on/off switch with an outlet in the center cockpit that has a full enclosure. My partner curls up under a blanket with the hot air going up under the blanket. Comfortable even when snowing. I had a forced air heater that died and it was easy to place the hydronic through the old forced air holes.
Other boat a 47’ trawler has a Webasto hydronic heating system. It works well, but if it dies I will go to the ITR Hurricane because to the limitless hot water heater. I also use a couple of 120v dehumififiers when on shore power. It has a Dickinson diesel stove and I use some thermal powered fans that need no electricity on top of the top plate that push air around the cabin, as well as some 12v and 120 v computer fans. Check out Amazon for stove top fans, they are excellent. The Dickinson stove is just too hot for the summer, and I use a propane stove top for cooking in the summer.

[ron17571]

I'm talking here with no experience, but a wood stove or burning diesel doesn't sound like a way to make friends if other boats are around you in a marina.
Lots of blankets and an oil filled heater with a timer? if you have the power.
I have had the pleasant vision of a very small wood stove in a boat.
Personally, I would travel with the weather and travel to places with nice weather. Boston during the winter sounds cold and not much fun. You cant retire or do the job remotely? Here we made fun of snowbirds that show up each summer to avoid the heat. As I got older I realized they have a good idea.